So are we down

[Indy 3,283]

As I''ve said yesterday, I would take us being above both Sunderland and Newscastle going into the last game of the season even by a point.

We have to match the points results of both Sunderland and Newcastle from now to the end of the season, both have a game in hand and both could overtake us before we play again.

I''d be happy going into the last game knowing its in our own hands.

But even if we go down I believe we are in a good place and we have to remember both Bournemouth and Watford have far bigger investment behind them than we do.

[mrs miggins 0]

imo it''s all about scouting.

What did Leicester pay for their key players;

Mahrez

Vardy

Kante

Morgan

Drinkwater

Huth

?

My guess is not that much in today''s market, yet they''re about to win the league.

If we achieved half that it would still be incredibly satisfying and be better than being a yoyo club.

imo it takes good info in regards to scouting, good management and a bit of luck (e.g. like we had with Holt; I''m sure Gunn thought he was a good player, but I doubt he though he''d be as successful as he was with us).

[mrs miggins 0]

(in reply to Vanwink)

[Van wink 2,994]

Let''s hope the new scouting team we are trying to put together is one of the best, it needs to be!

[Indy 3,283]

Yes but are people forgetting Leicester are owned by a billionaire?

I''m pretty sure those players and Raniery cost more than we could afford!

[mrs miggins 0]

The same players that almost got them relegated the previous season who cost not much more than ours.

point taken on Ranieri.

[Indy 3,283]

Miggs didn''t they spend close to 30 million to make it up, 9 million on three players including Schmikael in the championship?

Thought they spent large in the summer too!

Last I would love a comparison on the wages this year.

We''re not in the same league regarding backing from the board potential funding.

[mrs miggins 0]

Reminds me of the season we went down. Spent around £30m and bought the Wolf.

They bought Kramaric.

Whereas Kante cost £5.6m

Vardy= £1m

Mahrez £350,000

Huth = £3m

Their wages wouldn''t have been any/much higher than ours when they first signed they''re contracts.

[Indy 3,283]

That''s not correct Miggs, the last two season......

Ulloa - 8 million,

Simpson - 2 million

Lawrence - 1 million

Kramaric - 9 million

Amartey - 5 million

Grey -3.7 million

Inler - 5 million

Kanye 5.6 million

Benalouane - 5.6 million

Huth - 3 million

Okazaki - 7 million.

Not to mention wages......I think people have been slightly misslead in thinking they are in our pool for buying players.

[mrs miggins 0]

What do you mean it''s not correct?

I gave a list of their best players and how much they (reportedly cost)

What makes you think Mahrez would''ve been on more wages than our team when he joined?

[Indy 3,283]

Because you say the team which nearly got them relegated, they finished 14th on 41 points and have spent nearly 60 million in two seasons and god knows how much on Ranieri.

The position I see you taking on you opinion is that we could have bought in these players here and you also are pushing that we have similar spending which is not right either.

Just saying that they are a league above us in spending power and have spent pretty big.

Would love to know the wage difference this season between us and them.

[Funny old game 0]

I can see us winning at home to Manure, doing the double, and losing the rest, which would take us down.

[mrs miggins 0]

I think the wage difference is big now that they''ve given they''re players new contracts to stay.

To say they comfortably stayed up is certainly underplaying it. They looked dead and buried with 7 games to go.

What happened to them was a minor miracle.

Also, we could spend just over £50m in 2 seasons in the PL.

[Indy 3,283]

Yes we could, we had three seasons up here and barely spent that.

We can agree to disagree on our points but without the billions their owner has our owners are always going to be restricted in wages and spending.

Leicester have been a step above since they have their backer, the same as Southampton, Watford, Bournemouth, now Everton and looking like Swansea too.

We will be the poor relations in this division and attracting players will always be difficult for us without funding.....IMO

[morty 0]

Kinda with Indy on this...

[Robert Barnes 19]

It''s simple really they lose there game in hand.then all we have to do is match Sunderland and newcastles remaining game results easy right.and we stay up by 1pt

[Jools 584]

"It might take £180m and three years to get Leicester in the top five" Vichai Srivaddhanaprabha said.Talk about exceed expectations.

[Katie Borkins 1]

Not "Little Old Norwich" in my view, more "Too big for the Championship but not equipped for the Premier League Norwich".

We are not prepared to gamble the long term future on the short term future. I am okay with that. It just means we will yo-yo.

.

[mrs miggins 0]

Indy wrote the following post at 17/04/2016 9:36 PM:

Yes we could, we had three seasons up here and barely spent that.

We can agree to disagree on our points but without the billions their owner has our owners are always going to be restricted in wages and spending.

Leicester have been a step above since they have their backer, the same as Southampton, Watford, Bournemouth, now Everton and looking like Swansea too.

We will be the poor relations in this division and attracting players will always be difficult for us without funding.....IMO

-----------------------------------

2015/16

Dorrans - £4m

Brady - £7m

Pinto- £3m

Naismith - £8m

Klose - £8m

Jarvis £2.5m

Godfrey - £500k?

Maddison - £2.5m

=£35.5m

2013/14 (last PL season)

The Wolf - £8.5m

Redmond - £2m though rose up to over £3m

Garrido - £3m

Olsson - £2.5m

Fer - £4.5m

Hooper - £6m

=£27.5m

2 seasons = £63m

Leicester 2015/16

Huth - £3m

Okazaki - £7m

Kante - £5.6m

Inler - £3m

Gray - £3.7m

Amartey - £5m

Benaloune - £5m

=£32.3m

What a huge advantage their big owner has on us... Tbf to you though I think you''re right in terms of wages. If we suddenly found ourselves in the top 4 at Xmas time and Redmond said ''I''ve had offers from top clubs, but I''ll stay if you increase my wage to £80k a week;'' we don''t have the capacity to do that.

My point though is that we can build into a decent and stable PL club if we make the right decisions like Leicester have; unfortunately thats also the problem - it''s extremely unlikely that we will. I''m simply saying that it''s more than possible as well as suggesting that we don''t settle for being a yo yo club, happy to just flip flop - we need to aim big as fans imo. West Brom, Stoke, Palace, Leicester etc aren''t huge clubs, they''re like us. Yes other teams in the league have super rich owners but when looking at the net spend just after the summer this season, we''re 14th on the list, higher than Villa, Swansea, Arsenal, Spurs Stoke and Southampton. After January we were 6th.

I''m not saying we can be the next Leicester and finish 1st, but I do think we can aspire to be a regular mid table PL club, and that would be success for a club our size.

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

[quote user="julian hudson"]"It might take £180m and three years to get Leicester in the top five" Vichai Srivaddhanaprabha said.Talk about exceed expectations.[/quote]You missed a bit out of that quote. What the Leicester City owner said in full was:"It might take £180m and three years and an unusual sponsorship deal in which a company run from the equivalent of a Portakabin by the son of the man supposedly advising our club on how to, er, cope with Financial Fair Play has somehow, without any public evidence as to by what means, produced just the right amount of vastly additional profit to enable us to claim we have complied with FFP to get Leicester in the top five."

[Essjayess 307]

Imo as a fan yes, and have been all season. Accepted that, and 8 points from 15 games  in 2nd half of the season tells us everything we need to know.Of course technically we are not down until mathematically impossible to stay up, so obviously the manager and players will keep battling away as they have no alternative. But therein lies the problem, the vast majority of the 1st teamers have experienced relegation, many on more than one occasion, and sadly that leads to "the Norwich City way" of battling, i.e. going out with a whimperNow with Klose out, its done and dusted, and imo has been for a long time. Im already looking ahead to the close season, what an interesting pantomime that is going to be, get the feeling it will be the exact opposite of 2 years ago when we kept the vast majority of our relegated team team. No chance of big signings of course, but expecting lots of ins and outs.

[The gut 0]

No we are not down. I think it really is too close to call. In my opinion we are favourites to go down with Newcastle but I will retain hope until the last possible minute. I certainly think that we are capable of staying up, we can match most teams on our day. I think it''s interesting that Sunderland have to play three of our last four opponents. It is worth pointing out also that only one of the last 4 teams have beaten us this season.

As an aside, Burnley are not guaranteed to go up. We have only played in the same division as them once in the last 7 seasons. We''re never in the Premier league when they get promoted.

[Jacko 0]

We''re not down - you can''t surrender when you''re still outside the bottom 3 with 12 points to play for.

But it''s a very long, long, long road back from here you''d feel. The added blow is that the goal difference took a hammering on Saturday and that it''s effectively almost an extra point now.

I think to stand any chance were probably going to need about 37 or 38 points to survive. Winning the Watford game is an absolute must and we''re going to need to somehow find some a win and a draw from the games against Arsenal, Everton and Man Utd. That''s a very tough ask even if Everton are suspect at Goodison.

Remarkably Sunderland and Newcastle will have played 5 games between them by the time we kick off at Arsenal. So the picture will be much clearer by then.

[unique 434]

Until Saturday, I firmly believed we would stay up.

However, as the players and management would repeat ad nauseous - " it''s not about the performance at his time of the season, it is all about results ", and by that criteria, Saturday was shocking.

Norwich have been soundly beaten by each of the three teams below them this season, and their goal difference is now comfortably amongst the three worst - usually a good indication of which teams deserve to go down.

Saturday''s performance was not on a par with the capitulation at Craven Cottage, but the result was equally as bad.

[Indy 3,283]

[quote user="mrs miggins"]Indy wrote the following post at 17/04/2016 9:36 PM:

Yes we could, we had three seasons up here and barely spent that.

We can agree to disagree on our points but without the billions their owner has our owners are always going to be restricted in wages and spending.

Leicester have been a step above since they have their backer, the same as Southampton, Watford, Bournemouth, now Everton and looking like Swansea too.

We will be the poor relations in this division and attracting players will always be difficult for us without funding.....IMO

-----------------------------------

2015/16

Dorrans - £4m

Brady - £7m

Pinto- £3m

Naismith - £8m

Klose - £8m

Jarvis £2.5m

Godfrey - £500k?

Maddison - £2.5m

=£35.5m

2013/14 (last PL season)

The Wolf - £8.5m

Redmond - £2m though rose up to over £3m

Garrido - £3m

Olsson - £2.5m

Fer - £4.5m

Hooper - £6m

=£27.5m

2 seasons = £63m

Leicester 2015/16

Huth - £3m

Okazaki - £7m

Kante - £5.6m

Inler - £3m

Gray - £3.7m

Amartey - £5m

Benaloune - £5m

=£32.3m

What a huge advantage their big owner has on us... Tbf to you though I think you''re right in terms of wages. If we suddenly found ourselves in the top 4 at Xmas time and Redmond said ''I''ve had offers from top clubs, but I''ll stay if you increase my wage to £80k a week;'' we don''t have the capacity to do that.

My point though is that we can build into a decent and stable PL club if we make the right decisions like Leicester have; unfortunately thats also the problem - it''s extremely unlikely that we will. I''m simply saying that it''s more than possible as well as suggesting that we don''t settle for being a yo yo club, happy to just flip flop - we need to aim big as fans imo. West Brom, Stoke, Palace, Leicester etc aren''t huge clubs, they''re like us. Yes other teams in the league have super rich owners but when looking at the net spend just after the summer this season, we''re 14th on the list, higher than Villa, Swansea, Arsenal, Spurs Stoke and Southampton. After January we were 6th.

I''m not saying we can be the next Leicester and finish 1st, but I do think we can aspire to be a regular mid table PL club, and that would be success for a club our size.[/quote]

Miggs I fully agree with your sentiment, I''d like us to become an established premiership team, but your choice of the figures for those two season negate the fact the our summer signings cost us about 13 million and we received about 9 million, it wasn''t till the panic of January we have additionally spent nearly 20 million.

We had three seasons up here and our net spend on players was not great, so had we had £180 million as reported budget available to Leicester do you think we might have established ourselves?

Funny how Stoke and WBA have become established and both had Pulis as manager to stabilise them in this division, I think MacNally knows his stuff and we lack the funds of others, we are punching above our weight and have to accept that, but just my opinion.

[It's Character Forming 1,160]

Before Saturday, you had 3 teams in the mix and we were marginally the favourites to stay up.

 

Now I''d say Sunderland are in that position, ahead of us and Newcastle, who are probably about level with us having just produced a win, despite being 3 points behind with a game in hand.  So we''re now more likely to go down than not, especially with Klose being

 

It''s all still to play for, but most football fans do veer from extremes after a defeat, so it''s no surprise most have now written us off altogether.

[It's Character Forming 1,160]

Very true and amazing that before we play next, Newcastle play 3 games and Sunderland 2.  So it will be a lot clearer then.

[Barking Mad Barclay Boy 13]

"So are we down"

Yes.

[hogesar 9,615]

Well, we all bigged it up as a massive game Saturday because it was. So we can''t now say the result doesn''t matter. It was a massive game which in theory has taken safety out of our own hands.

However, winning it was never going to guarantee survival, just like losing was never going to guarantee relegation.

I was more optimistic before the weekend results obviously, but all it takes is a penalty decision in our favour in our next game and one against Sunderl....oh wait, all the ref''s are f*ing useless and give us nothing.

[Chip20 69]

I am normally a glass half full kinda person but I must admit that, although my head can see there are enough points still to play for, that we are not mathematically down, that none of us Sunderland or Newcastle are likely to win all of our remaining games and so forth, my heart is heavy. A lot of the recent optimism was built on the form of Klose (and his effect on the rest of the team) and the belief we would get something against Palace and/or Sunderland, thus dragging the former into the relegation mix and extending the gap between us and the Mackems. Maddeningly it has transpired that we are not only left eating Palace''s dust and with Sunderland completely filling our rear view mirror, we have lost the foundation on which our resurgence was seemingly built.

I know that neither Newcastle nor Sunderland have become great overnight, so both are likely to revert to the mean again over the coming weeks and I remain confident neither will win their game in hand. My loss of confidence is down to our own failure to grasp the nettle and carry the momentum we built. We have just lost to two pi$$ poor teams who were on shocking runs of form and it feels as though the momentum and confidence has shifted to Sunderland now.

However, I am only talking about my confidence. As long as it is still mathematically possible I will always have hope. I sincerely hope the boys in yellow and green have more bottle and belief than I do. If both the teams behind us fail to capitalise next week then we are back in the driving seat. It does just feel like hope to me now, though, rather than belief. That said, I have been around long enough to know that anything can happen and form can change from week to week. I''ll be cheering and praying in equal measure until the bitter end.

OTBC!!