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pete

Since Paul Lambert the club has stagnated.

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When Paul Lambert came to the club in 2008 the club was on its knees financially. But three seasons later we were in the Premier League and on a sound financial footing. David McNally was integral in identifying Paul''s talent. Unfortunately Lambert''s ambition took over and he made the disastrous decision to take over at Villa a decision he must now seriously regret as his career has gone down the toilet.

I don''t know if McNally had any hand in Lamberts exit but his leaving was not handled well and led to acrimiations on both sides.

Since Paul left us the club has only improved in one area namely financially. Certainly not in management the hapless Hughton taking over with limited success and not being replaced soon enough to secure Premier League survival. Adams came and went. Neil came in and galvanised the team to Play Off success but then floundered in the Premier League by making poor selection and tactical decisions that is likely to see us relegated. We all know why we are where we are after the summer transfer fiasco which has McNally''s dabs all over it.

The playing squad has not improved since the departure of Grant Holt, who has never been replaced. Our signings have been appalling from van Wolfswinkel to Naismith with few promising moves, Brady started like a storm but now looks as poor as the rest, Klose looks good but too early to tell. The defence that saw us relegated is still in place shifting goals and making mistakes. Ruddy still in goal needs to be replaced. Few are exempt from criticism the excellent Howson who deserves to stay in the Premier League.

See the above for criticism regarding the clubs recruitment policy, is there one? or is it just hope for the best.

There has been no improvement to the stadium or to the training complex which now needs millions of improvement that is needed in order to attract signings. Money that could have gone to improve the squad and would have been readily available should we have reaped the benefit of next season in the Premier League.

But looks like we shall be tumbling into the Championship with a squad older and less talented than two years ago. The squad will have to be invested in if we intend to attempt a promotion push, Jerome the only striker left after all the loanees get back and this won''t be cheap, will we pay what is needed? little evidence likely to happen.

We''ve not been relegated yet I hear you cry that is true and we may yet survive which we all hope and pray will be the case, whatever the above comments still apply, The team needs serious strengthening which on previous evidence we will try to do on a shoestring.

Who then has been instrumental in failing to take the club forward well surprisingly its the Board with good old Delia and Michael at the helm. Most at fault must be the CEO who initially was our saviour seven years on his action plan has failed dramatically if he is so good at his job why is he still here? and not in a more high profile post. Think he''s past his sell by date along with the rest of the Board.

Never mind the supporters are just happy with mediocrity and to show ambition doesn''t fit well in with the Norfolk way.

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Well i for one think pete has highlighted several issues and has made a good effort in looking at the big picture.

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I totally agree with what has been said. The four years under Lambert was probably the best in the sixty years I have been going. Lambert was impatient according to Board members and I don''t think our board wants another challenging manager.

On Saturday we bottled it much like Fulham under Worthington and that makes me wonder if there is a deeper problem at the club. As much as I wanted Hughton out he has gone to Brighton saved them from relegation and now fighting for promotion. It would seem the players didn''t want to play for him here and there have been periods under the current manager when the same seems to apply.

Is there some a bad apple in the players or is it just that we are a nice club that don''t relish the fight.

You could ask whether football is the prime target of McNally or is it the finances after our last relegation he was paid a bonus not for footballing achievements but for meeting financial targets.

Something needs to change at the club if we aim for the Premiership long term.

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[quote user="pete"]There has been no improvement to the stadium or to the training complex which now needs millions of improvement that is needed in order to attract signings. Money that could have gone to improve the squad and would have been readily available should we have reaped the benefit of next season in the Premier League.[/quote]Two points. We could have spent money on Carrow Road and Colney but it would have had to have come from somewhere. Such as the playing budget. And if we do stay up there will not be surplus money "readily available", because transfer fees and wages will rise.

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[quote user="Mr Apples"]Or to put it another way; since the club, Paul Lambert has stagnated.

Apples[/quote][:D]

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[quote user="ridgeman"]

You could ask whether football is the prime target of McNally or is it the finances after our last relegation he was paid a bonus not for footballing achievements but for meeting financial targets.[/quote]You could ask the question what do McNally and the man from Mulbarton who head up our '' football board '' know about the playing aspect of the game as neither of them have played the professional game.

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[quote user="TIL 1010"][quote user="ridgeman"]

You could ask whether football is the prime target of McNally or is it the finances after our last relegation he was paid a bonus not for footballing achievements but for meeting financial targets.[/quote]You could ask the question what do McNally and the man from Mulbarton who head up our '' football board '' know about the playing aspect of the game as neither of them have played the professional game.[/quote]Oh, is that a pre requisite?Have CEO''s at all the other Premiership clubs all played pro football then?

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[quote user="morty"]Oh, is that a pre requisite?Have CEO''s at all the other Premiership clubs all played pro football then?[/quote]Are you saying that all CEOs sit on the management team that runs the football side of the business at other clubs ? Our football operation is run from Colney and the '' director '' of football there has never played the professional game. McNally is a money man. Now if you are saying that sits comfortably with you fair enough but it is not my view on the matter.

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[quote user="ridgeman"]

You could ask whether football is the prime target of McNally or is it the finances after our last relegation he was paid a bonus not for footballing achievements but for meeting financial targets.

Something needs to change at the club if we aim for the Premiership long term.[/quote]I''m guessing, but I think accurately, that he has a number of different targets that have related bonuses. If we hit financial targets, he gets that one, if we hit "footballing" targets, he gets that one, and so on. And rightly so IMHO. We were relegated but because the club was well-run financially we were able to hang on to almost all our players, and hence get promoted immediately.Do you think this should be different?

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[quote user="Nuff Said"][quote user="ridgeman"]

You could ask whether football is the prime target of McNally or is it the finances after our last relegation he was paid a bonus not for footballing achievements but for meeting financial targets.

Something needs to change at the club if we aim for the Premiership long term.[/quote]I''m guessing, but I think accurately, that he has a number of different targets that have related bonuses. If we hit financial targets, he gets that one, if we hit "footballing" targets, he gets that one, and so on. And rightly so IMHO. We were relegated but because the club was well-run financially we were able to hang on to almost all our players, and hence get promoted immediately.Do you think this should be different?[/quote]That same defence will be taking us down again more than likely and for me that is where the failure came from our '' football board '' in not addressing the problem. Upgrades were needed from the Play off Final onwards not 7/8 months later the following January. Who do you hold responsible for that fiasco Nuff Said ?

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[quote user="TIL 1010"][quote user="morty"]Oh, is that a pre requisite?Have CEO''s at all the other Premiership clubs all played pro football then?[/quote]Are you saying that all CEOs sit on the management team that runs the football side of the business at other clubs ? Our football operation is run from Colney and the '' director '' of football there has never played the professional game. McNally is a money man. Now if you are saying that sits comfortably with you fair enough but it is not my view on the matter.[/quote]I don''t know, do they?Is McNally director of football now?I''m assuming you have researched this thoroughly before picking up the stick....

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[quote user="TIL 1010"][quote user="morty"]Oh, is that a pre requisite?Have CEO''s at all the other Premiership clubs all played pro football then?[/quote]Are you saying that all CEOs sit on the management team that runs the football side of the business at other clubs ? Our football operation is run from Colney and the '' director '' of football there has never played the professional game. McNally is a money man. Now if you are saying that sits comfortably with you fair enough but it is not my view on the matter.[/quote]

McNally is the man who had the vision to bring in Lambert as he did with Neil.I am happy with the success he has bought and don''t care how much he''s been paid.Not really his fault we have had useless refs and Klose got injured.

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[quote user="ridgeman"]I totally agree with what has been said. The four years under Lambert was probably the best in the sixty years I have been going. Lambert was impatient according to Board members and I don''t think our board wants another challenging manager.

On Saturday we bottled it much like Fulham under Worthington and that makes me wonder if there is a deeper problem at the club. As much as I wanted Hughton out he has gone to Brighton saved them from relegation and now fighting for promotion. It would seem the players didn''t want to play for him here and there have been periods under the current manager when the same seems to apply.

Is there some a bad apple in the players or is it just that we are a nice club that don''t relish the fight.

You could ask whether football is the prime target of McNally or is it the finances after our last relegation he was paid a bonus not for footballing achievements but for meeting financial targets.

Something needs to change at the club if we aim for the Premiership long term.[/quote]I don''t see the logic here. Since relegation meant McNally missed out on a football bonus of about £500,000 (which was a greater sum than the financial bonus he did still get) surely he would be at least as motivated to achieve success on the field as in the balance sheet?

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Wonder how the state of our club compares to that of, say, a "giant" like Aston Villa - especially if both clubs get relegated?

The simple fact is we don''t have as much capital investment as the vast majority of our rivals, and we''ve certainly not had the rub of the green this season.

Have we stagnated? Arguably. Is this the fault of the board? I don''t think so - it''s just a sign of where we are as a club at the moment.

Put it this way - real stagnation is that lot down the road...

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[quote user="TIL 1010"][quote user="morty"]Oh, is that a pre requisite?Have CEO''s at all the other Premiership clubs all played pro football then?[/quote]Are you saying that all CEOs sit on the management team that runs the football side of the business at other clubs ? Our football operation is run from Colney and the '' director '' of football there has never played the professional game. McNally is a money man. Now if you are saying that sits comfortably with you fair enough but it is not my view on the matter.[/quote]
And how uncomfortable were you with it when we were in League One. Then the Championship. Then the Premiership? Then the Premiership again? Then the Premiership again? Then the Championship? And now the Premiership again?
People criticise the likes of Smudger and my god with some reason too but at least they were closer to consistency than you. If you''re going to have such a strong opinion about someone who has done, in most peoples eyes, a very good job - then at least put your balls on the line and keep to it.
This isn''t an individual dig at you Til and you may have remained consistent throughout (although I didn''t seen this opinion of yours a couple years back), but this forum, the fan groups on Facebook etc are suddenly bringing up Delia, McNally etc. But why?
Because we lost a game. That''s it. I''m sorry, but either harp on about it all season and then you can say "i told you so", if that''s your thing. But celebrate a win like Newcastle and everyone''s percy positive. Lose a game and the boards a shambles, the managers crap, the players don''t know what a football is and McNally is spending all our income on lap dances. 
It''s an extreme case of fickleness.

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And Til, I believe the ''football board'' tried to address the problem (of upgrading the squad) over the summer - but failed. Just like the team failed on Saturday. I''m sure both groups will learn and try differenetly in the future but I wouldn''t call it a "fiasco." Villa, Portsmouth - now they are fiascos.

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Well Hoggy, it seems you can see more of the bigger picture than the narrow squinty eyed little bit that Tilly and the OP seem to see. Five seasons in the PL. 3 of them since Lambert left. That''s hardly stagnation. I agree we have probably stagnated since we beat Newcastle but that''s the tiniest big picture I''ve ever seen...

And "The Man From Mulbarton". Is he like " The Man From Uncle" or maybe "The Man From Atlantis"? Or is it a case of just the same old whipping boys after disappointing results?

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No idea what the point the op was trying to make was as I gave up reading after the first paragraph.

''When Paul Lambert came to the club in 2008 the club was on its knees financially. But three seasons later we were in the Premier League and on a sound financial footing.''

Glenn Roeder was manager in 2008, Paul Lambert didn''t come in until 2009 when we were in League 1 and after successive promotions it was just 2 seasons later we were in the Premier League.

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I agree with your sentiment hogesar, I think we are sharing the same opinion about the club.

Got to say though I think you are also guilty of a little fickleness. You said you weren''t having an individual dig at Til while it looked like you were having an individual dig at Til.

Now this isn''t directed at you hogesar but I think if you are having a dig at a poster you should put your balls on the line and say you are having a dig.

Oh and we haven''t stagnated, we have grown!

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Great thread.

We HAVE stagnated. On and off the pitch.

I get the feeling the board are happy if we yoyo as it means we stay financially secure and means they don''t have to take risk.

To become a Swansea, Stoke, Bournemouth or even Leicester city we need to spend. Players do not come here for 2 reasons.

1. Wages - pay peanuts, get monkeys.

2. The way we sell the city and the club. Norwich is a nice place to live but it aint London/Newcastle/Birmingham. ''Cosmipolitan'' cities that can offer what we cant.

Add to the above, as a footballer what would sound more apprealing? "Sign for us at Norwich and you can live in a lovely city, play for great fans and become a hero" or "sign for us, we''ll pay you £50,000 a week and if you score 25 goals and keep us up we''ll sell you to Chelsea/Man City/Arsenal".

I know what I''d prefer.... ask Swansea what''s worked for them over the last few years.

The new set up coming in to the board with Ed Balls, Delia''s Nephew etc will not change this... they are not football people, they are not business people. They are here to uphold a legacy and maintain the status quo.

Unless we grow a pair as a club we''ll always have what we''ve always had.

13 relegated players in the squad... regardless what ever division we are in next season its time to weild the axe.. lets not have a single relegated player here in 2 years and have a group of players capable of pushing on.

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[quote user="The gut"]I agree with your sentiment hogesar, I think we are sharing the same opinion about the club.

Got to say though I think you are also guilty of a little fickleness. You said you weren''t having an individual dig at Til while it looked like you were having an individual dig at Til.

Now this isn''t directed at you hogesar but I think if you are having a dig at a poster you should put your balls on the line and say you are having a dig.

Oh and we haven''t stagnated, we have grown![/quote]
Oh no, I am referring to Til, it''s just not an individual dig because plenty of others are just as bad, if not worse.

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Sure is me (Jas) Ian.... the online name was 18 years old and i was a mere lad when I set it up... time for a change!!

Curios Yellow... Mercenaries that keep us up and establish us as a prem side is fine by me!!!

"Heroes" have got us where we are...

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