The referee issue

[It's Character Forming 1,160]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]I doubt there''s many people who see the corruption in the PL as a conspiracy directly against us. That''s a red herring put around by the likes of Highland for whatever reason... But it''s fair to say if this corruption does exist, and I believe it does, then we will never profit from it.[/quote]

spot on.

 

Conspiracy, bias (conscious or unconscious), corruption... none of us have any first hand info, I''m pretty sure.  But I believe the evidence of my own eyes that big decisions have persistently gone against us all season.  And have cost us points.

[Highland Canary 76]

I am sure that supporters of other clubs feel exactly the same. Our issue is underperformance, arguably, directly attributable to poor recruitment last August.

[It's Character Forming 1,160]

[quote user="Highland Canary"]I am sure that supporters of other clubs feel exactly the same. Our issue is underperformance, arguably, directly attributable to poor recruitment last August.[/quote]

 

But Sunderland fans would struggle to complain that they never get a penalty awarded away from home, I feel.

 

This is pretty flabby logic.  I''ve said several times that I can''t think of a single game this season where incorrect refereeing decisions have been made in our favour which has cost the other side a point or all 3 (and I''ve not seen any examples given).  Whereas people have listed lots of occasions when decisions have cost us points.  It''s not good enough to say "other fans feel the same" which translates into "I can''t actually give any examples but I''m just saying it anyway". 

 

People mention the "handball" before Olsson''s goal against Newcastle ad nauseam, but as has been pointed out, that was actually a correct decision.  It says something when the best people can come up with as an example of a ref favouring us is when the ref didn''t make an incorrect decision against us.

 

I agree that the failure to recruit a decent CB last summer is now looking more and more as a disastrous decision.  But I think it is also clear that if we''d had fair decisions on balance by officials over the season, we''d have quite a few extra points and would be close to safety now.  To think otherwise is IMO just naïve.

[JF 694]

I think most people realise the board fd up in the summer Highland but that isn''t the debate here. The debate is that we have had far too many key decisions go against us this season by the way of poor refereeing displays. For whatever reason it seems to be easy to get key decisions wrong against us with no consequences for the referees in question. 2 key decisions in successive matches against our nearest rivals in palace and Sunderland look like being the mistakes that will eventually send us down. There has been a 6 point swing in palaces favour by the way of incorrect decisions in our games against them this season.

[Highland Canary 76]

I share the frustration JF but I''m simply not convinced that on other teams'' forums at various points in the season you wouldn''t find an identical discussion. Perhaps, the fans and management need to do more to make playing Norwich a more intimidating experience, I don''t know, but it doesn''t appear to have done West Ham any good for example. Referees are not the reason for our failure that rests with (the lack of) player recruitment last Summer.

[nutty nigel 7,527]

Banging the same drum on every thread will not drown out other points of view...

[JF 694]

But has every other team had these decisions go against them in games against direct rivals highland? If Palace finish the season now 6 points ahead of us then those 6 points were gained in the 2 matches against us through wrong decisions. We can bang on about this all night but I highly doubt any other teams down the bottom have had the decisions against direct rivals that we have

[PurpleCanary 5,556]

[quote user="Highland Canary"]I share the frustration JF but I''m simply not convinced that on other teams'' forums at various points in the season you wouldn''t find an identical discussion. Perhaps, the fans and management need to do more to make playing Norwich a more intimidating experience, I don''t know, but it doesn''t appear to have done West Ham any good for example. Referees are not the reason for our failure that rests with (the lack of) player recruitment last Summer.[/quote]That may weel be true, but our frustration is backed up by facts. On average this season Premier League clubs have been awarded/conceded 3.85 penalties. We have been awarded one and conceded 9. You would expect a team in the lower half of the table to have a negative balance, but that is comfortably the worst, with the next worst 2-7. And this is all in tune with the fact that in more than five full seasons in the Premier League we have not been given one away penalty.

[Highland Canary 76]

It is tricky obtaining empirical evidence one way or the other JF. The six point Palace swing also presupposes that the eventual results would have been different had Jerome''s overhead stood or the penalty given. Possibly, maybe probably. We just differ as to what makes up the most significant factor contributing to our current predicament.

[nutty nigel 7,527]

Who said it was the most significant factor?

[JF 694]

Of cause no one knows how the games would have played out but in the case of Jeromes goal we were well on top at that point and that would have made it 2-2 with the momentum firmly behind us I believe we would have gone on to win the match. The away game isn''t as clear cut but had that penalty been awarded and converted the way the game was with so few chances going 1-0 up would have been priceless. There are many factors in play as to why we are where we are not just the boards summer incompetence

[Guest]

That''s good news then Purple - according to most these things "even themselves out" over the course of the season - so we should be looking at at least 3 penalties between now and a months time?

[It's Character Forming 1,160]

[quote user="Highland Canary"]I share the frustration JF but I''m simply not convinced that on other teams'' forums at various points in the season you wouldn''t find an identical discussion. Perhaps, the fans and management need to do more to make playing Norwich a more intimidating experience, I don''t know, but it doesn''t appear to have done West Ham any good for example. Referees are not the reason for our failure that rests with (the lack of) player recruitment last Summer.[/quote]

 

I''m afraid you''re not going to persuade me by saying you''re "not convinced" you wouldn''t find an identical discussion on other teams'' forums.  I''m sure you can find whinges about ref decisions, but that''s not what we''re talking about.  I''ve heard Leicester fans bemoaning Vardy getting sent off.  But I don''t believe you''ll find a discussion on a Leicester forum about how they''ve consistently had key decisions go against them with nothing the other way - that would just be unbelievable.  Even the most die hard Leicester fan would have to recognise the refs have (from their perspective) given them a decent set of penalty decisions.

 

And if you look at discussion boards for Sunderland, Newcastle, Palace, Swansea - again, I just don''t believe you''ll find a discussion like this about persistent bad decisions on key points with nothing the other way, backed up with some sensible examples.

 

If you disagree and you want to persuade me, you''re going to go and have a look and find some examples you can point to.  rather than just making vague assertions that you think there might be examples somewhere.

[......and Smith must score. 1,339]

Do people really believe there''s a conspiracy ? Is it likely that all the professional refs meet up for a pre-season huddle and agree that NCFC are never going to get the rub of the green ?What''s with all this obsession that things ought to level out over a season ? The law of averages doesn''t work over a neat package of 38 games.I do think that referees are biased in favour of big clubs but since when in the Premier League have Palace and Sunderland been big clubs ?Supporters of all clubs scream foul when things go against them but selective memory takes over when dodgy decisions go in their favour.There''s no conspiracy.

[JF 694]

No one has said there is a conspiracy. Just facts about how we have been on the receiving end of more than our fair share of wrong decisions

[nutty nigel 7,527]

So you think the PL is all good and above board Smithy? I thought I was the naive one...

 

All that money, all those different money lovers. Has there ever been other such organisations that didn''t become corrupt?

[Van wink 2,994]

It''s human nature to focus on the decisions that go against you when you don''t get the result you want.

[JF 694]

Vanwink wrote the following post at 18/04/2016 9:22 PM:

It''s human nature to focus on the decisions that go against you when you don''t get the result you want.

Luckily for us we have ample decisions to focus on then

[......and Smith must score. 1,339]

[quote user="JF"]No one has said there is a conspiracy. Just facts about how we have been on the receiving end of more than our fair share of wrong decisions[/quote]Well people seem to assume that the '' big '' clubs benefit from most if not all these dodgy decisions.Since when have Palace, Sunderland and especially Leicester been big clubs ?

[......and Smith must score. 1,339]

[quote user="Vanwink"]It''s human nature to focus on the decisions that go against you when you don''t get the result you want.[/quote]Exactly.

[......and Smith must score. 1,339]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

So you think the PL is all good and above board Smithy? I thought I was the naive one...

 

All that money, all those different money lovers. Has there ever been other such organisations that didn''t become corrupt?

[/quote]Of course not Nutty. It''s professional sport after all.  As we all know money is the root of all evil but if it''s that corrupt how come little ol'' tin pot Leicester have been allowed to glide effortlessly to the top of the League and stay there ?

[JF 694]

They are not big clubs yet in 3 of the 4 matches played against both teams we were robbed of clear penalties and a perfect goal that had Wayne Rooney scored the pundits on MOTD would have been wetting themselves over. I find it quite bizarre that so called norwich fans that have seen every match this season find it impossible to accept that we have been hard done by this season on key decisions. If we get relegated we deserve it but there has been some shocking decisions in our matches

[nutty nigel 7,527]

Corruption does not mean it will favour big clubs. But it does mean it won''t favour our club. And to be fair hardly anyone, and that includes me, thinks there''s a conspiracy against us. But it works against us.

[JF 694]

There clearly isn''t a conspiracy but there must be a reason why referees are shirking key decisions in our games. One penalty for us all season and 9 against. I would guess that every key penalty decision against us has been given as I can''t think of a single incident where I''ve thought we were lucky to get away with that

[......and Smith must score. 1,339]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]Corruption does not mean it will favour big clubs. But it does mean it won''t favour our club. And to be fair hardly anyone, and that includes me, thinks there''s a conspiracy against us. But it works against us.[/quote]But why wouldn''t any corruption have put the kibosh on Leicester too ? If we''re comparing comparable outfits, ie, size and status, there''s nothing between us and them.

[JF 694]

Would Leicester have got that dubious last minute penalty had they been in our position yesterday? From our experience no but the referee couldn''t wait to give it. Probably scared of being the ref that missed the penalty that spoilt the fairy tale

[......and Smith must score. 1,339]

[quote user="JF"] I find it quite bizarre that so called norwich fans that have seen every match this season find it impossible to accept that we have been hard done by this season on key decisions. If we get relegated we deserve it but there has been some shocking decisions in our matches[/quote]Well if after 49 years trudging around following this lot I''m a so called Norwich fan then fair enough [;)] but if there''s been that many shocking decisions against us surely we don''t deserve to get relegated ?

[......and Smith must score. 1,339]

[quote user="JF"]Would Leicester have got that dubious last minute penalty had they been in our position yesterday? From our experience no but the referee couldn''t wait to give it. Probably scared of being the ref that missed the penalty that spoilt the fairy tale[/quote]The Premier League don''t deal in fairy tales ......... allegedly [;)]

[JF 694]

Yes we do. As Highland has said the summer transfer window was a shambles. Had we had Klose or a player of his ability from the start of the season we would be sitting mid table now. Even after that shambles we still found ourselves in a position where one win at home to Sunderland all but secured safety and we simply failed to turn up. There has been many factors as to why we will likely be relegated and at the end of the day the fact is we probably haven''t been good enough but having said all that which I believe to be true, I can honestly say I have never seen a season where so many decisions have gone against us

[nutty nigel 7,527]

[quote user="......and Smith must score."][quote user="nutty nigel"]Corruption does not mean it will favour big clubs. But it does mean it won''t favour our club. And to be fair hardly anyone, and that includes me, thinks there''s a conspiracy against us. But it works against us.[/quote]But why wouldn''t any corruption have put the kibosh on Leicester too ? If we''re comparing comparable outfits, ie, size and status, there''s nothing between us and them.

[/quote]

 

Who knows Smithy. On one hand you have a guy who says he''s got 180m to take his club into the Champions league and on the other you have Delia. Now I''m not saying Leicester''s owner is corrupt. But I am saying Delia isn''t.