The referee issue

[Well b back 3,203]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]Yankee is right about Wisdom. He was poor all game and some one commented to me that he was as "blowing" quite early on.

However the penalty was one that would be given maybe 1/4? And even less often at 0-0. Nobody seems to want to answer my question asking if we''d get that a 0-0 in a big game away from home. History suggests not.[/quote]

I will answer it

No chance. Who would the refs / Pl ect rather have in their league Norwich or 1 of Newcastle and Sunderland ?

[JF 694]

However the penalty was one that would be given maybe 1/4? And even less often at 0-0. Nobody seems to want to answer my question asking if we''d get that a 0-0 in a big game away from home. History suggests not.

We didn''t get the penalty on Jarvis at 0-0 at palace in a 6 pointer match so I would say not a hope in hell we would have got it

[militantcanary 0]

Unless it''s a blatant error you don''t tend to notice / remember the decisions that go in your favour whereas every iffy decision against feels like a crime!

The ref could / should have blown up for handball before Olsson slammed home against Newcastle the other week ... but no one remembers that.

Refs give what they see. There is no conscious bias or agenda.

You have got to be joking right??

There is no agenda vs Norwich this season you say but the

evidence is so massively stacked up that I can only think you have an eyesight problem. I can think of 8 matches where we have been done by the referee this season, blatant gob smacking bias. At least 4 of those defied belief. The PL is dirty and corrupt end of.

We accept these blatant wrongs too easily Neil is way too too empirical and generous in his assessment and I would say that if he kicked up as he should do the referee may think again.

Our failures at both end of the pitch have got us into trouble the corrupt cunts who call themselves referees will probably send us down

[JF 694]

People keep saying about this howson hand ball but by the rules of the game hand ball has to be deliberate. Clearly it hit his arm which was in a natural position by his side, ball to hand and not hand to ball. Correct decision by the referee not to blow

[Van wink 2,994]

militantcanary wrote the following post at 17/04/2016 8:38 PM:

Unless it''s a blatant error you don''t tend to notice / remember the decisions that go in your favour whereas every iffy decision against feels like a crime!

The ref could / should have blown up for handball before Olsson slammed home against Newcastle the other week ... but no one remembers that.

Refs give what they see. There is no conscious bias or agenda.

You have got to be joking right??

There is no agenda vs Norwich this season you say but the

evidence is so massively stacked up that I can only think you have an eyesight problem. I can think of 8 matches where we have been done by the referee this season, blatant gob smacking bias. At least 4 of those defied belief. The PL is dirty and corrupt end of.

We accept these blatant wrongs too easily Neil is way too too empirical and generous in his assessment and I would say that if he kicked up as he should do the referee may think again.

Our failures at both end of the pitch have got us into trouble the corrupt * who call themselves referees will probably send us down

We will go down because we have one of the worst three squads.

It might make you feel better to blame the refs for our situation, fine if that''s what you need, but blaming someone else will only disguise the real problem.

[nutty nigel 7,533]

I think very few people, and I''m certainly not one, believe if we go down its down to referees. That doesn''t mean we don''t think the league is corrupt. We obviously are not party to the corruption. Perhaps that''s Delias little old Norwich for you...

[Van wink 2,994]

.........and I''m pleased that''s the case.

[militantcanary 0]

Unless it''s a blatant error you don''t tend to notice / remember the decisions that go in your favour whereas every iffy decision against feels like a crime!

The ref could / should have blown up for handball before Olsson slammed home against Newcastle the other week ... but no one remembers that.

Refs give what they see. There is no conscious bias or agenda.

You have got to be joking right??

There is no agenda vs Norwich this season you say but the

evidence is so massively stacked up that I can only think you have an eyesight problem. I can think of 8 matches where we have been done by the referee this season, blatant gob smacking bias. At least 4 of those defied belief. The PL is dirty and corrupt end of.

We accept these blatant wrongs too easily Neil is way too too empirical and generous in his assessment and I would say that if he kicked up as he should do the referee may think again.

Our failures at both end of the pitch have got us into trouble the corrupt * who call themselves referees will probably send us down

We will go down because we have one of the worst three squads.

It might make you feel better to blame the refs for our situation, fine if that''s what you need, but blaming someone else will only disguise the real problem.

Not at all, there have been myriad failings which have left us in trouble, lack of activity in the Summer, inept coaching etc. What will make the small ultimate difference and it will be small is the referees. Can you possibly counter this self evidently true comment? If we had say 4 or 5 extra points Palace home and away, Chelsea at home, yesterday we would be safe? No?

[Van wink 2,994]

Are you saying it is literally only us that gets these bad decisions?

[HampsteadCanary 0]

The Palace incident shaped our whole season. We came out of that match thinking "here we go again..." - the refs will favour the big teams and little old Norwich will miss out again.

Except the big boys now include Palace and Sunderland. An extra point, goal difference here and there, it all adds up, and helps to give us extra momentum. I know scoring on the first day of the season wasn''t going to turn Jerome into a 15 goal a season striker, but it can''t help his or the team''s confidence if you score a goal of the season contender and complete a come-back.

It would be interesting (or boring and very time consuming) to go through each team''s matches and find out just how often they are on the wrong end of poor decisions.

[Van wink 2,994]

Come on Hampstead, so what your saying is their all big boys except for us, so all the other games between all the other big boys are reffed without any controversial decisions but when any of the other teams play us we are deliberately screwed.

[HampsteadCanary 0]

No I''m not saying that the other games are reffed without controversial decisions. I''m saying that soft decisions are always given against us and never for us, whether it''s against a top 6 side or a relegation rival. When was the last time we got a pen and thought "that was lucky!" Never. I''m too much of an optimist to think that they''re actually corrupt, but it doesn''t even itself out for us, and that''s what is frustrating.

I think we''re just as big a club as a lot of the other bottom half teams, if not bigger, but we''re not seen like that outside of Norfolk.

[Jim Smith 2,317]

It certainly does not feel like it''s evened itself out over the season. We could have had three pens yesterday quite easily. Blatant one at Palace not given. Chelsea allowed a clearly offside goal. Jeromes disallowed goal. Just a few incidents that spring to mind and have cost us points. Even against Spurs where we were not great they were gifted a goal with a soft penalty and we were denied a much better shout. We just don''t seem to have had the rub of the green all season. It will come down to a couple of points in the end and those could easily be attributed to some of these poor decisions.

[nutty nigel 7,533]

Winky, I''m not saying it''s only us. I''m just saying it''s never us.

Would we have got Sunderlands penalty away from home under any circumstances let alone at 0-0 in a huge defining game?

You can use any of our PL away matches since 1994 for reference.

[curious yellow 184]

It has been said before that Allardyce bullies the referees.

Perhaps the refs are frightened of the more experienced managers, perhaps not. We get one dodgy decision against Newcastle that Shearer points out to the nation,

next game we get a Newcastle fan for a ref! Add that to all the ridiculous decisions againt us.

Now we get a ref who gives every decision to the opposition, something is badly wrong. It is wrong for us to start blaming our own team, manager and board.Everything seems to be against us but if we are to go down, we should stick together and go down fighting.

[Highland Canary 76]

Good for Allardyce then. He is a master at avoiding relegation. His appointment has generated £100m for Sunderland. We should be praising that club''s foresight not looking for non-existent refereeing conspiracies.

[curious yellow 184]

Yeah, great if you think of football as a business, sort of ruins the game doesn''t it?

I wouldn''t praise anyone for bullying or cheating.

[hogesar 9,671]

Things like the Jerome goal against Palace at the start of the season still infuriate me purely because we all sat back with the thought process of "these things even themselves out over the course of the season".

I agree, in the Championship they''ve always seemed to.

In our recent Premiership years, particularly this one, I really don''t think they have.

[It's Character Forming 1,160]

I can''t speak about Sunderland''s whole season because I don''t watch them much.

 

But I can say that on Saturday, Howard Webb (analysing for TV) thought they got two key decisions in their favour - play allowed to continue for their crucial 2nd goal despite the foul on Bassong, and he looked at 3 penalty appeals and felt the most obvious foul on Mbokani should''ve been given although another one and the push on Basso he felt were not penalties.  So he has no pro-Norwich bias but has spotted two major decisions that went their way (and he didn''t point out any major decisions which were in our favour).  Change those two decisions and the whole game changes.

 

Can anyone seriously point to an away game where we had two major decisions - or even one major decision - in our favour (with none the other way) ?  I mean a game where the decision got us a goal or deprived the other side of a goal.

 

Of course not.

 

People have been harping on endlessly about the Howson handball but as has been pointed out that was technically the right call by the ref, and Newcastle got the O''Neill handball for a penalty earlier, which while probably right, often wouldn''t be given.  And that''s the only game all season I can remember where we got anything of importance in our favour.

 

So my view is that the margins are so tight at the bottom of the Prem &if we''d got those decisions done correctly, we''d probably have 5-6 more points than we do - which would make us close to safety.  I wouldn''t say that relegation, if it happens, would be solely down to the refs - clearly the failure to sign a decent CB last summer would probably have cost us more points.  But it is one of several factors which have been important in putting us in the position where we will now really struggle to stay up.

[Jim Smith 2,317]

I agree I thought we could easily have had 3 penalties. the Bassong one was brushed over by the summarisers who said he''s made too much of it but when you are in the air like that and are pushed then its going to put you off balance.

The other incident i wanted to see a replay of but they never showed was what happened immediately after the most obvious Mbok penalty shout. i was convinced that as the ball ran away their keeper took out another of our players down by the byline and that also looked a good penalty shout but they were so focused on the Mbokani pen shout that they never showed any replays of what happened afterwards.

[Just Dan 10]

I have to say that referees get an easy ride under AN. I applaud the way that he does not look at the ref as a scapegoat but there are times when we should be getting in the refs face and giving him a mouth full.

Look at the Leicester game yesterday. Injury time and they get that joke of a penalty - pathetic. Vardy was rightly sent off, but he got a penalty for a very similar incident at Carrow Road.

Bassong on Alli vs Spurs

Jerome Goal vs Palace

Jarvis vs Palace

Foul on halfway prior to goal vs Chelsea

Offside goal vs Chelsea

Vardy penalty vs Leicester

Latest shambles vs Sunderland

There are an awful lot of bad decisions in that little selection.

[It's Character Forming 1,160]

[quote user="Jim Smith"]I agree I thought we could easily have had 3 penalties. the Bassong one was brushed over by the summarisers who said he''s made too much of it but when you are in the air like that and are pushed then its going to put you off balance. The other incident i wanted to see a replay of but they never showed was what happened immediately after the most obvious Mbok penalty shout. i was convinced that as the ball ran away their keeper took out another of our players down by the byline and that also looked a good penalty shout but they were so focused on the Mbokani pen shout that they never showed any replays of what happened afterwards.[/quote]

 

Yeah, they talk about players going down too easily but ignore the fact that it''s different if you''re in the air rather than having your feet on the ground.

 

I didn''t see the other incident you mentioned at all though, & as you say it wasn''t covered in the replays.

[Year of the tiger 54]

Add to those just off the top of my head

Brady charged in the back in area Chelsea away

Wes ditto Arsenal home

Palace penalties not given

Even our one pen this season saw Naismith brought down twice before it was given.

Against that there are always times in games you think that could have been given & we might have got away with one there. I really am struggling to recall too many of those this season

[SwindonCanary 455]

I don''t think there''s a conspiracy by ref''s it''s just their sub-conscience telling them it''s little old Norwich. I would like to know when was  the last time we got a debatable penalty.

[FenwayFrank 2,459]

Jim Smith, yeah, Mbokani went down, play continued and Hoolahan poked the ball past the keeper and was taken down.

[poacher 0]

I think everybody agrees lack of investment last summer is one of the main causes of failure. Exactly the same as the Worthington era. If that repeats again we shall be getting an old player with no managerial experience as manager again.

Saturday''s referee was only to quick to give a penalty. Big Sam''s comment to us was ''I think we got one there''. He then gives then another 50/50 decision with Bassong. Surely by now he must be thinking next time it is a 50/50 decision I will give it to Norwich but no every major or minor decision goes to them. There has to be something wrong.

[poacher 0]

The other thing that I forgot to say is if you are one of our players and after 67 minutes you have seen every decision go against you dont you start to think well it doesnt matter what I do I know the referee wont give us a goal. It will be ruled out for some infringement.

[Guest]

I very much doubt there is a conspiracy, but I don''t think anyone can say decisions have evened themselves out over the course of the season.

We don''t have anyone but ourselves to blame for our current position, but we have had nothing out of the refs all season. As other posters have said, there''s such fine margins this season, that literally one or two points could make all the difference, and it''s immensely frustrating to be able to point to at least a dozen incidents where we should have got something from the referees.

Also, just to point out that Sunderland are still below us, and that the masterful and classy Big Sam (who couldn''t wait to push our players around) has not yet avoided relegation with Sunderland.

[Jim Smith 2,317]

[quote user="FenwayFrank"]Jim Smith, yeah, Mbokani went down, play continued and Hoolahan poked the ball past the keeper and was taken down.[/quote]

That''s what i thought happened in real time but it was completely ignored. i was appealing for that one more than the original shout for the foul on Mbok. Would be interesting to see it again if its picked up in any of the highlights packages.

[nutty nigel 7,533]

I doubt there''s many people who see the corruption in the PL as a conspiracy directly against us. That''s a red herring put around by the likes of Highland for whatever reason...

But it''s fair to say if this corruption does exist, and I believe it does, then we will never profit from it.