AN Has Done His Best, It's Now Up To The Players!

[norfolkbroadslim 225]

[url]http://www.edp24.co.uk/sport/norwich-city/how_badly_do_you_want_premier_league_football_alex_neil_s_stark_warning_to_his_norwich_city_players_1_4499957[/url]

[norfolkbroadslim 225]

Two points for me -1 - Has he done his best & if so, is his best good enough?2 - Is he distancing himself from any potential blame and putting the onus on the players?  If so, is he right to do that?

[Jim Smith 2,610]

Find these quotes a little worrying. Leaving aside the fact I don''t think he''s performed well this season I just don''t think it''s helpful for his to be seen as passing the buck onto the players at this crucial time.

[Hairy Canary 754]

Didn''t really read that post as a criticism of the players from AN, more of a rallying call not to give up. It''s easy to think we are all but down because of the defeat against Sunderland when in reality we are still not in the bottom three.

I''m not sure the players can be questioned in terms of effort. I''ve seen plenty of blood and sweat this season.

For me the bigger issue is that we have been rather naive in the way we have been set up on many occasions this season - not necessarily in the team selection (which after all is simply down to the manager''s opinion and preference) but more in the way we have approached games. Playing both full backs high up the pitch simultaneously is all well and good when you''re chasing the game but not when the game if finely balanced, or against teams like Leicester and Sunderland who play on the break, or against Liverpool and West Ham when we are two goals to the good.

[Lessingham Canary 108]

Didn''t really read this as him criticising or distancing himself from blame, lets face it there is no hiding place for a football manager ! once the knives are out they are out, usually until blood is drawn, wonder how Martinez feels at the moment with all the blade sharpening on merseyside.

See this more as AN being quite open, he has done this before, imo.

[If wed only kept Howie.. 3]

I think his words are excellent (as always) - he isn''t throwing the players under the bus!

[Horse Renoir 1]

He''s right.

Under 3 different managers now with very different approaches we''ve remained inconsistent as hell and full of individual errors in each game.

We''re not a good side at this level anyway. I''m sure everyone from the owners/manager/players and fans have come to that quite deflating realization by now anyway. What that means is we have to be right up for every game, concentrate for 90 minutes, show some composure at key moments, get the basics right and to fight for every ball.

We don''t do those things nearly enough and rarely ever for a full game at a time and I''m not sure what a manager can do about that to be honest. To keep us up we''ve got to have 4 superb performances, forget tactics/motivation etc the players need to go out there and bloody do it.

Big changes needed to the playing squad next year regardless of what league we''re in.

[Suffolk7 0]

The truth is it didn''t really matter what AN said in the press today, in some people''s eyes it would have been the wrong thing to say! the guy cant seem to do anything right (unless we are winning). Its a simple case of when we are winning its down to the players, and when we are losing its down to the Manager. That''s football, and that''s how it has always been and always will be. He strikes me as a guy hat tried desperately hard over the past 18 months, he has never been afraid to experiment or try different tactics both on and off the pitch.

[GJP 79]

It is up to the players and the manager.

He has to get the balance of the team right and give them the best platform to play from. He probably hasn''t done enough times.

[Horse Renoir 1]

But if our players are only suited to one way of playing, we can''t concentrate for 90 mins so can''t play a defensive game and we don''t show enough composure or work hard enough to play an attacking game what the hell is Neil supposed to do?

Hughton has shown at every other club that he''s a really good manager, Neil has done inexplicably well in his first 3 season, Adams worked wonders with an inferior youth team to most other clubs and the players have shown the same failings with all 3 managers.

Very little of our situation is down to AN. most of his perceived ''failures'' have come from showing such trust and loyalty to his players and them not rewarding him for his faith.

We need a major squad overhaul in the summer. The last person I''d look to replace is our absolutely brilliant young manager!

[GJP 79]

He''s young but he''s not brilliant.

Think that has become really quite obvious this season.

[Horse Renoir 1]

He''s got the weakest and most one dimensional and tactically inflexible squad in the league to 31 points after 31 games and won a ridiculous amount of games last season with us in the championship with mostly the same squad. We''ve been completely screwed over by ref''s this year as well. What we''ve achieved under him has been brilliant.

Even when we''re obviously putting everything into games we still look a poor side, he has nothing to work with at this level.

If you think we''ve got a good team and that we''ve under performed under him then fair enough, I see it differently. I think we''ve had an abysmal last few transfer windows and that our same core of players have some huge, easily exploitable weaknesses and AN doesn''t have much to work with. so despite that he''s done a really good job.

[Horse Renoir 1]

*34 sorry

[westcoastcanary 173]

[quote user="Ricky Spanish"]*34 sorry[/quote] Can let that go Ricky because the rest of your several posts on this thread are spot on. [Y]

[GJP 79]

Of course there is a chance he would do better with better players.

But the flip is a better manager might get more out of the players.

His record is worse than Lambert and Hughton and there''s a very strong argument to say he has got a better squad to work with.

Alex Neil is the managerial version of Chris Martin. You can see he''s got something about him but probably not enough to be more than top end Champ/lower end Prem.

[westcoastcanary 0]

[quote user="GJP"]Of course there is a chance he would do better with better players.

But the flip is a better manager might get more out of the players.

His record is worse than Lambert and Hughton and there''s a very strong argument to say he has got a better squad to work with.

Alex Neil is the managerial version of Chris Martin. You can see he''s got something about him but probably not enough to be more than top end Champ/lower end Prem.[/quote] You have to factor in experience. You can''t be expected to reach your full managerial potential in three years. If you factor his inexperience in, I think "one of the most promising young managers in the British game" remains accurate. Took Hamilton back into the SPL in his first year, had them at the top of the SPL in the first half of his second year before moving to Carrow Road and getting us promoted in the second half of the year. The EPL is a different kettle of fish given the overall quality of opposition managers and players and the financial strength of other clubs. Pearson, an experienced Championship manager, just kept Leicester up last season; more money and Ranieri''s vastly greater top level experience have moved them on this season. Instead of writing Alex Neil off, his critics should be asking how much sense and judgement they themselves possess -- of course, they''d need more sense and judgement than they have to arrive at an honest answer.

[GJP 79]

Out of interest what is the designated number of years at which point you can say someone should have reached their full managerial potential?

[Lessingham Canary 108]

GJP wrote;

Out of interest what is the designated number of years at which point you can say someone should have reached their full managerial potential?

Simple, not lose a single game in a season, and win every competition therefor that they compete in !!

So how many have fulfilled their potential.

[GJP 79]

Well that''s my point. I don''t really know where you can draw the lines for these things.

[hogesar 10,766]

[quote user="GJP"]Well that''s my point. I don''t really know where you can draw the lines for these things.[/quote]

Neither do I, but you can hardly say he''s an experienced manager at this stage. You could probably judge his true ability having managed for a much longer period of time than he has so far.

[westcoastcanary 0]

[quote user="GJP"]Well that''s my point. I don''t really know where you can draw the lines for these things.[/quote] But you''ve decided you can draw the line before the end of AN''s third year in management? Of course there''s no set time limit, any more than there is for players, but in most cases simple common sense will tell you whether it is reasonable to allow more time, or whether it''s patently clear that the earlier potential is never going to be fully realised.

[westcoastcanary 0]

Take Redmond for instance, he''s promised for several years now, and I

imagine everyone will agree that he really does now need to start

answering the questions, but most are still prepared to give him a bit

longer to become the player many believe he could go on to be. By way of

contrast, take someone very similar to Redmond,

Arsenal''s Walcott. He''s been "promising" for several more years than

Redmond and has yet to develop into the top class player many

expected, as witness his failure to start regularly either for his club or for England. He''s turned out to be a nearly man, a fate that may yet befall Nathan R.

[morty 0]

[quote user="westcoastcanary"]Take Redmond for instance, he''s promised for several years now, and I

imagine everyone will agree that he really does now need to start

answering the questions, but most are still prepared to give him a bit

longer to become the player many believe he could go on to be. By way of

contrast, take someone very similar to Redmond,

Arsenal''s Walcott. He''s been "promising" for several more years than

Redmond and has yet to develop into the top class player many

expected, as witness his failure to start regularly either for his club or for England. He''s turned out to be a nearly man, a fate that may yet befall Nathan R.[/quote]How do you quantify what you think Redmond could be though?Maybe he is already as good as he is going to be?

[GJP 79]

What has Redmond promised? Has he promised to notch 20 goals and 20 assists each season and get sold to Man City for £50m?

He''s being judged against expectations other people have put on him.

People often claim they worry about too much pressure being put on young players. But they''ve always been very quick to criticise Redmond when he isn''t as good as they want him to be.

[morty 0]

[quote user="GJP"]What has Redmond promised? Has he promised to notch 20 goals and 20 assists each season and get sold to Man City for £50m?

He''s being judged against expectations other people have put on him.

People often claim they worry about too much pressure being put on young players. But they''ve always been very quick to criticise Redmond when he isn''t as good as they want him to be.[/quote][Y]

[Lessingham Canary 108]

Hardest job in football ? i think its probably the club''s managing expectations of supporters.

[westcoastcanary 0]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="westcoastcanary"]Take Redmond for instance, he''s promised for several years now, and I

imagine everyone will agree that he really does now need to start

answering the questions, but most are still prepared to give him a bit

longer to become the player many believe he could go on to be. By way of

contrast, take someone very similar to Redmond,

Arsenal''s Walcott. He''s been "promising" for several more years than

Redmond and has yet to develop into the top class player many

expected, as witness his failure to start regularly either for his club or for England. He''s turned out to be a nearly man, a fate that may yet befall Nathan R.[/quote]How do you quantify what you think Redmond could be though?Maybe he is already as good as he is going to be?[/quote] Maybe he is, but the point at issue was about when it is appropriate to reach a definitive conclusion, my opinion being it''s too soon in Redmond''s case, but justified in Walcott''s.Re. the measure of promise, it''s not a matter of

the expectations people put on him if the people you''re referring to are

supporters. The measure is the opinion of professionals in the game, in

particular his youth team coaches and his club and national team

managers (as well as the degree of respect shown him by the teams

against which he plays). No, he hasn''t promised 20 goals a season, but

he has played 25 matches for the England U21s in the last three years,

scoring 7 goals; and no, nobody is expecting Guardiola to come in for

him with a £50M bid, but Norwich reputedly slapped a £15M fee on him in

the January transfer window to deter interest from others.

[morty 0]

Daryl Sutch had an U21 cap[;)]

[westcoastcanary 0]

[quote user="morty"]Daryl Sutch had an U21 cap[;)][/quote] [:D] Four actually Morty, so Redmond has shown more than 6 times the promise that Daryl did. Maybe that £15M will turn out to be an undervaluation ...........

[morty 0]

[quote user="westcoastcanary"][quote user="morty"]Daryl Sutch had an U21 cap[;)][/quote] [:D] Four actually Morty, so Redmond has shown more than 6 times the promise that Daryl did. Maybe that £15M will turn out to be an undervaluation ...........[/quote][:D]