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Katie Borkins

McNally's Seven Year Plan & Scores on the Doors

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You don''t have to dream mate but you do have to stop walking around like a chicken scratching in the dirt and thinking, good here innit!

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[quote user="Katie Borkins"][quote user="TIL 1010"][quote user="Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB"]If we get relegated you could argue that McNally has failed against the 7 year plan as he outlined it as it has us as an established Premiership side side with no relegations, rather than a perennial yo yo club.......[/quote]Agree with that FJSPSOB but of course saying something different will be viewed as having a foot stomping hissy fit.[/quote]
One relegation and one promotion in the last five seasons is hardly the stuff of a "perennial yo-yo club".
Perhaps given our financial constraints and club size, we are punching above our weight to be a bottom 6 Prem/top 6 Championship club?
I suppose it comes down to expectations and what people consider to be reasonable achievement.
[/quote]

Tell that to a Leicester or Southampton fan

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[quote user="Vanwink"]You don''t have to dream mate but you do have to stop walking around like a chicken scratching in the dirt and thinking, good here innit![/quote]

So you don''t think the club has moved forwards in the last seven years? The board are attempting to move forwards still, but there are no guarantees of improvement and whatever McNally says in a press release, he''ll be aware there are limits not to mention that fans going on about it on forums don''t have any legit answers, despite making it sound so easy.

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Yeh the clubs made terrific steps in terms of its finances and has had 4 years in the prem which is great I''m I''m not knocking that in the least, it''s brilliant. But where things have been not so good we should challenge that, rather than seek to excuse it or accept it because we''re Norwich and we can''t expect more.👍

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Indy"]Well Purple look at our squad, do you think our current squad would not benefit from the likes of Eadie, Newsome, Bowen, Gunn, Marshall, Fleck, Crook and Ward?

I mean like for like, Olsson, Klose, Redders, Tettey, Martin, Wes, Jerome and Howson, then after that I don''t think the rest would push us any better than that squad.

For me you''ve highlighted that we haven''t really built the squad any better......Bassong, Dorrans, ONeil, Mullumbu, Jarvis, Naismith, Laffs, Rudd, Ruddy........it''s not really any better is it considering? Not in my opinion.[/quote]Indy, you quoted the squad, so it is the whole squads that have to be compared. I grant you there are a few players there who would get into our current squad, such as Gunn, Eadie and Crook and Bowen, although both those two were past their best by then. But several of that squad, including as it does Sutch, Bradshaw, Ullathorne, Milligan, Akinbiyi, Fleck (as he was by then), Newman (ditto) and Keith Scott, would be not be good enough to make the 25. And these were all players who got into double-figures in appearances that season. You cannot seriously think a squad that included those players is as good as one that includes those internationals you have listed as not being very good.They may not all have performed well this season, but you have lost perspective if you think they are not intrinsically better footballers than the likes of Sutch and Bradshaw and Keith Scott. So, yes, our current squad is clearly better than that 20 years ago.[/quote]

On the flip side are the likes of Vadis, Mulumbu Laffs, Dorrans Rudd, RVW Turner etc. better than those you mentioned in perspective of how football has moved on?

It''s all about opinions and we can differ but it''s clear that the gulf isn''t that big and that to me indicates no real improvement in terms of the two squads.

Still I''d take a mix from both sides in their prime, that could be a very good team, Crook, Bowen & Fleck.

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If you look at what McNally actually said in respect of the seven year plan it is fair to argue that achieving Premiership status earlier within the plan is success, however in terms of the actual aims and objectives of the plan itself at the end of it we are meant to be an established Premiership team, no more relegations, so it is fair to say that if we are relegated this season we will have failed against the plan. This is not an emotional, anti club rant but a statement of fact.........

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There was the rapid departure of the previous club Chairman, followed by the appointment to the Board of Directorship of a like-minded political friend/acquaintance of the majority shareholder''s as his replacement. Then a nephew is appointed as a Director - and now, the world of Professional football is our oyster......Containing a pretty average amount of flesh.......But sadly, void of any lovely rich expensive pearls......

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[quote user="TIL 1010"]
I suppose it comes down to expectations and what people consider to be reasonable achievement.The thing is Katherine that as we have the best owners of any club in the land, the best CEO in the business, the greatest fans and above all no debt i don''t expect to be playing clubs next season described on here as car crashes like Leeds, Scum and Villa.
[/quote] The first two being tongue-in-cheek, and the last being patently true, my question TIL is about "the greatest fans". "Albatross round the neck of the club" might be a better description don''t you think? 

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[quote user="Indy"][quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Indy"]Well Purple look at our squad, do you think our current squad would not benefit from the likes of Eadie, Newsome, Bowen, Gunn, Marshall, Fleck, Crook and Ward?

I mean like for like, Olsson, Klose, Redders, Tettey, Martin, Wes, Jerome and Howson, then after that I don''t think the rest would push us any better than that squad.

For me you''ve highlighted that we haven''t really built the squad any better......Bassong, Dorrans, ONeil, Mullumbu, Jarvis, Naismith, Laffs, Rudd, Ruddy........it''s not really any better is it considering? Not in my opinion.[/quote]Indy, you quoted the squad, so it is the whole squads that have to be compared. I grant you there are a few players there who would get into our current squad, such as Gunn, Eadie and Crook and Bowen, although both those two were past their best by then. But several of that squad, including as it does Sutch, Bradshaw, Ullathorne, Milligan, Akinbiyi, Fleck (as he was by then), Newman (ditto) and Keith Scott, would be not be good enough to make the 25. And these were all players who got into double-figures in appearances that season. You cannot seriously think a squad that included those players is as good as one that includes those internationals you have listed as not being very good.They may not all have performed well this season, but you have lost perspective if you think they are not intrinsically better footballers than the likes of Sutch and Bradshaw and Keith Scott. So, yes, our current squad is clearly better than that 20 years ago.[/quote]

On the flip side are the likes of Vadis, Mulumbu Laffs, Dorrans Rudd, RVW Turner etc
. better than those you mentioned in perspective of how football has moved on?

It''s all about opinions and we can differ but it''s clear that the gulf isn''t that big and that to me indicates no real improvement in terms of the two squads.

Still I''d take a mix from both sides in their prime, that could be a very good team, Crook, Bowen & Fleck.[/quote]Indy, you do realise Lafferty, Turner and van Wolfswinkel are not in our squad??? But taking those who are, I would agree there are a very few players (Eadie and Gunn certainly) who are as good as anyone we have in the squad now. The very best of 1995-96 are on a par with those of today. But once you get below those few today''s squad wins out, with the current worst (since you have mentioned them I take it you mean the likes of  Vadis and Mulumbu) way above the worst of 20 years ago, such as Bradshaw and Keith Scott.

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[quote user="westcoastcanary"][quote user="TIL 1010"]
I suppose it comes down to expectations and what people consider to be reasonable achievement.The thing is Katherine that as we have the best owners of any club in the land, the best CEO in the business, the greatest fans and above all no debt i don''t expect to be playing clubs next season described on here as car crashes like Leeds, Scum and Villa.
[/quote] The first two being tongue-in-cheek, and the last being patently true, my question TIL is about "the greatest fans". "Albatross round the neck of the club" might be a better description don''t you think? [/quote]

It might be an Albatross around our neck if it was genuine and not tongue in cheek.

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Indy"][quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Indy"]Well Purple look at our squad, do you think our current squad would not benefit from the likes of Eadie, Newsome, Bowen, Gunn, Marshall, Fleck, Crook and Ward?

I mean like for like, Olsson, Klose, Redders, Tettey, Martin, Wes, Jerome and Howson, then after that I don''t think the rest would push us any better than that squad.

For me you''ve highlighted that we haven''t really built the squad any better......Bassong, Dorrans, ONeil, Mullumbu, Jarvis, Naismith, Laffs, Rudd, Ruddy........it''s not really any better is it considering? Not in my opinion.[/quote]Indy, you quoted the squad, so it is the whole squads that have to be compared. I grant you there are a few players there who would get into our current squad, such as Gunn, Eadie and Crook and Bowen, although both those two were past their best by then. But several of that squad, including as it does Sutch, Bradshaw, Ullathorne, Milligan, Akinbiyi, Fleck (as he was by then), Newman (ditto) and Keith Scott, would be not be good enough to make the 25. And these were all players who got into double-figures in appearances that season. You cannot seriously think a squad that included those players is as good as one that includes those internationals you have listed as not being very good.They may not all have performed well this season, but you have lost perspective if you think they are not intrinsically better footballers than the likes of Sutch and Bradshaw and Keith Scott. So, yes, our current squad is clearly better than that 20 years ago.[/quote]

On the flip side are the likes of Vadis, Mulumbu Laffs, Dorrans Rudd, RVW Turner etc
. better than those you mentioned in perspective of how football has moved on?

It''s all about opinions and we can differ but it''s clear that the gulf isn''t that big and that to me indicates no real improvement in terms of the two squads.

Still I''d take a mix from both sides in their prime, that could be a very good team, Crook, Bowen & Fleck.[/quote]Indy, you do realise Lafferty, Turner and van Wolfswinkel are not in our squad??? But taking those who are, I would agree there are a very few players (Eadie and Gunn certainly) who are as good as anyone we have in the squad now. The very best of 1995-96 are on a par with those of today. But once you get below those few today''s squad wins out, with the current worst (since you have mentioned them I take it you mean the likes of  Vadis and Mulumbu) way above the worst of 20 years ago, such as Bradshaw and Keith Scott.[/quote]

Hang on Purple, you''re saying that players who can''t get into a squad in the championship and now premiership who haven''t played many games for us are better than those 20 years ago!

In my opinion, Vadis, Mulumbu, Dorrans, Bassong, Rudd even Bennett are in the same bracket as Scott, Bradshaw etc. How have they proved to be any batter when they''ve barely featured for us?

We can agree to disagree, but the two squads are not that far apart in my book.

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[quote user="Indy"] Hang on Purple, you''re saying that players who can''t get into a squad in the championship and now premiership who haven''t played many games for us are better than those 20 years ago!

In my opinion, Vadis, Mulumbu, Dorrans, Bassong, Rudd even Bennett are in the same bracket as Scott, Bradshaw etc. How have they proved to be any batter when they''ve barely featured for us?

We can agree to disagree, but the two squads are not that far apart in my book.[/quote]Er, no, Indy, I haven''t said that. Which players in our PL squad, such as those you name, can''t or couldn''t get into a Championship squad? I am not aware that has ever applied to any of those. Apart from last season with us (when he was in our 25) Bassong has played his whole English career in the PL. Dorrans had only one season out of the PL with West Brom, and he was joint leading scorer, so I imagine he made that squad. You have me baffled, I am afraid.

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No purple it''s this season not what they have done in the past, you made refe to the squad 20 years ago having aging pro''s......the players I''ve mentioned in our squad in our team not WBA or any other are not making the grade and Bassong has been relegated more times than Norwich!

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I don''t think it''s realistic to compare our squad now to the 93 team - any squad in the Prem, man for man, would be better than then because the money has brought in high calibre (and some not so high calibre) foreign signings.

 

We were ahead of the 7 year plan when we were promoted under Lambert and relegation back down was allowed for in the plan, so going back up put as back on track.  Relegation this season, if it happens, will clearly push us back off track - the plan was that after dropping back once, we''d get established in the Prem.  Which was eminently achievable this season but is now looking unlikely.

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[quote user="Indy"]No purple it''s this season not what they have done in the past, you made refe to the squad 20 years ago having aging pro''s......the players I''ve mentioned in our squad in our team not WBA or any other are not making the grade and Bassong has been relegated more times than Norwich![/quote]Indy, if you care to name all these players in our current Premier League squad you say in the past have been left out of Championship squads for not being good enough I will carry on discussing this. Until then...

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Given back then there wasn''t a restriction in terms of numbers but, Bassong last year was loaned out, RVW who is part of Norwich City shipped out, to name two, Vadis has barely played and has Mulumbu actually started this season?

In my opinion the squad in terms of 20 years progression hasn''t moved on.

If you think it has that''s fine, you''re entitled to that opinion, but I find it a real struggle to defend our squad, Naismith has been utterly dissapointing, Jerome has proven again he''s a championship standard striker, Jarvis no better than Keith O''Niell....shall I go on? Eadie better than Redders, Crook far better than Gary O''Neil, Bowen, Fleck.......

You restrict the squad of 20 years ago to that time yet you use history to back up the current squad saying Bassong has been P

L.....etc. Let''s stick to this years team as it is now for comparison.

We differ in the view of improvement in the squad, I don''t see it, and I''d go as far as to say if we don''t have drastic changes if we go down the likes of Bassong, Dorrans, Mullumbu, Jarvis, Vadis won''t have much of an impact next season IMO.

That''s it from me, I''m moving on from this as we could debate this all week and not agree.

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