So, Brexit - who's for it, and who's against it?

[Dicky 0]

100% out for me. It is a corrupt organisation (the auditors have not signed off the accounts for many years) where every country is in it for it''s own gain, but unfortunately because of the terms under which we joined, we have very little voice, very little influence, we tend to play fair (unlike some other countries) and it costs us a fortune. Germany is the biggest beneficiary because it benefits from a weaker currency (Euro) than it would have if it still had the Mark and this helps it''s exports enormously, whilst having enormous influence over countries like Greece etc. The EU does NOT have a trade agreement with the US, so Obama was talking tripe about us being at the back of queue to get one and to be perfectly honest, if this is a problem, we can always start dealing with countries where the companies pay their tax.... (Amazon, Starbucks, Apple, Google, Facebook etc don''t). In reality, leaving the EU will have very little (if any) impact on trade, in reality because people who buy British goods abroad will continue to do so. We will still use Facebook, buy Apple phones and have all of our cheap stuff made in China. Get back control of our own trade, have controlled immigration, become an agile country once again (we are still the FIFTH largest economy in the world, although being part of the EU is impacting on this) and use the money that we send to the EU on a daily basis (to help our competitors build up their businesses - Land Rover defender being built in Eastern Europe with EU subsidies....) to spend on OUR hospitals, roads, schools etc and be able to help and promote British business (steel industry) without being held back. Anyway, that''s my thoughts as someone who has a degree in Business and Economics and has run a successful business for the last 26 years dealing with lots of French/American/Japanese clients.

[Barking Mad Barclay Boy 13]

which one enables norwich to stay in the prem?

[Platonic 1]

I was tempted to vote leave after the whole fiasco with Greece and Angela Merkel essentially taking control of the Greek government. However, I will be voting to stay, mainly because I''m sick of the rhetoric of Nigel Farage and the UKIP-sympathetic press; it''s veiled racism at best. If you want my honest opinion, leaving will probably leave us slightly worse off, but it''s not going to be an apocalypse either way, and both sides should be ashamed at the scaremongering. It''s a very nuanced question, whether to leave the EU, which frankly I don''t think should be the subject of a referendum - Cameron should never have agreed to it - but rather should have been a manifesto commitment.

A few points - we gain a lot from being in the EU as we have access to the largest free market in the world. We also are not part of the Schengen area so retain control of our borders (I''m fed up of being told how open our borders are - if we leave the EU then the French will just let all of the people currently at Calais get on a train and we''ll have them in massive camps in the UK). Also, if you look into the European Convention of Human Rights, which our goverment assisted in creatingin the 1950s and also ratified in 1998 into UK law, it''s actually done quite a lot of good in this country, such as forcing us into changing draconian child protection laws and stopping the army use torture techniques in the 1970s. I think it''s a good thing to have a higher court to apply to outside of the UK.

We can all agree that the EU is overly bureaucratic and requires reform, but I''d rather stay in and hold irresponsible MEPs to account (such as Mr Farage, who basically claims every penny he can in expenses from the EU without ever attending, the epitome of having your cake and eating it) rather than quit the whole thing.

Plus, as a last reason to stay - voting to leave essentially guarantees we have Boris as prime minister...

[morty 0]

Trust me, my decision in wanting to leave, has precisely zero to do with what Nigel Farage thinks or says.

[SwindonCanary 455]

I think this debate has been done in the Non-Football section, but just for the record, I''m for OUT !

[......and Smith must score. 1,336]

[quote user="Crabbycanary3"].....

The word on the street (not quantified btw) is that the majority of older generation ( e.g most who have known pre CM times) will definitely vote and , that will be for exit, and the majority of under 35s are nervous about leaving and would probably want to stay in, but are not looking (bothered?) to cast their vote.[/quote]I think that sums it up in a nutshell.

[Guest]

I was tempted to "Vote Leave", but I won''t because of Farage.

Wow.

[The ghost of Michael Theoklitos 0]

[quote user="Andrew Spanton"]

...

The in campaign is well documented as being based on scaremongering .....[/quote]I don''t disagree with this, but I also don''t think the out campaign is any different.

[Crabbycanary3 994]

In my line of work, I do get to talk to the ''older'' generation a lot, and they have all said that the initial CM seemed a good idea from a trade point of view, but it has got way beyond that, and out of hand, hence why they all seem to want to vote leave.

[THE59ER 0]

I''m with you Morty.

[If wed only kept Howie.. 3]

Daly... bless ya..

I think you''ll find that Obama is recommending we stay in..

As for the ridiculous "57 states" conspiracy nonsense - it was a slip of the tongue, he meant to say 47. This is why if you actually watch the footage he says "..one left to go", "Alaska and Hawaii i wasn''t allowed to go to"..

[ricardo 7,347]

I expect Remain to win fairly comfortably but personally I shall be voting out. For me its all about sovereignty and not about whether we are a few quid better or worse off. Freedom within our own demos can''t be calculated in money and to my mind is worth almost any price. The European Union is never going to be able to forge all the disparate countries into a unified state so best to get out before it all goes to pot anyway.Many people seem to be voting IN with some reluctance. I''m afraid I can''t subscribe to that "she may be ugly but I get the occasional blow job" mentality.I shall vote OUT but I''m fairly certain it won''t make a difference to the result. Project Fear was always likely to win in the end.

[westcoastcanary 173]

Whatever the older and younger generations think, the currency dealers are definitely sensing victory for the Stayers. The possibility of Brexit has been a significant factor in the GBP losing as much as 13% of its value against the USD since January; as of today it has recovered half that, most of it in the last week or so. Still two months to go before the referendum though.

As for me, I''m of the older generation and, setting aside any self-interest, favour Brexit. I have a deep distrust of anything over which the French have significant control. Remember De Gaulle and his attempt to destabilise Canada with his "Vive le Quebec libre"? How he must have enjoyed having Edward Heath come crawling with his plea to let us join the then Common Market.

[OldRobert 38]

Out for me.  I was happy with the Common Market, but it isn''t that anymore is it?  I want to be able to control immigration, deport undesirables like Abu Hamza without it taking 8 years.  Let''s have our own Human Rights Bill.  I don''t want the UK to have to continue to bale out Spain, Portugal, Greece and then no doubt Albania, Turkey (with it''s Syrian and Iraqui borders), Croatia, Serbia and Kosovo will no doubt all be wanting handouts at some time or another.  That''s if the whole kit and caboodle doesn''t fall apart.  I don''t believe it would take 10 years to negotiate new trade agreements with for eg USA, I think that''s scaremongering.  We still have the fifth strongest economy in the world, that stands for quite a bit in my book, and that''s not just down to our membership of a very undemocratic club.  Not only that, I think were we to leave, others might well follow, not everything in the EU garden is rosy.  For me Vote OUT.

[daly 500]

Howie Bless you too

I lived in Nevada/California for 20 years and can assure you 90% of Americans have no idea what countries make up Europe let alone us have their President to give us advice on whether to stay or leave.

[......and Smith must score. 1,336]

[quote user="ricardo"]Many people seem to be voting IN with some reluctance. I''m afraid I can''t subscribe to that "she may be ugly but I get the occasional blow job" mentality.[/quote]Maybe the husband of a certain German Chancellor does ? [:D]

[city4eva 207]

In, out In out shake it all about, decisions decisions, but leaning towards OUT

[Absent Friend 0]

If the EU were about co-operation, which it was originally, I''d vote to stay in. It''s not these days, it''s about compulsion.

If I thought that by staying in we had any chance of turning the tide away from compulsion and back towards co-operation, I''d vote to stay in. We don''t, so I won''t.

The EU now is an unnecessary and expensive level of government, utterly remote from most of the people it is supposed to serve. The idea that 25 countries of different cultures, political systems and resources should all be compelled to follow the same laws is absolute nonsense, not to say unworkable.

It''s not that anything and everything that comes out of the EU is, by definition, bad. I''ve no doubt some good things have come out of it. The trouble is so have some bad ones. If one country has a bright idea that others like, then fine, adopt it if you want - not if you don''t.

Opposition to the EU is nothing to do with migrants, or hating the French/Germans/Italians (except immediately after penalty shoot outs) and certainly not even remotely racism of any kind.

There''s no doubt a NO vote would cause serious ructions for a while, and in the years that immediately follow there would almost definitely be some problems in the economy as we readjust.

But we aren''t voting for the short term. We''re looking at what happens for a very long time to come.

[ricardo 7,347]

[quote user="......and Smith must score."][quote user="ricardo"]Many people seem to be voting IN with some reluctance. I''m afraid I can''t subscribe to that "she may be ugly but I get the occasional blow job" mentality.[/quote]Maybe the husband of a certain German Chancellor does ? [:D][/quote]Christ! what a thought.

[Herman 9,716]

[quote user="ricardo"]I expect Remain to win fairly comfortably but personally I shall be voting out. For me its all about sovereignty and not about whether we are a few quid better or worse off. Freedom within our own demos can''t be calculated in money and to my mind is worth almost any price. The European Union is never going to be able to forge all the disparate countries into a unified state so best to get out before it all goes to pot anyway.Many people seem to be voting IN with some reluctance. I''m afraid I can''t subscribe to that "she may be ugly but I get the occasional blow job" mentality.I shall vote OUT but I''m fairly certain it won''t make a difference to the result. Project Fear was always likely to win in the end. [/quote]The other option is going away and masturbating on our own while looking at pictures of Switzerland and Norway[:D]And both sides are as bad as each other when it comes to Project Fear.

[paul moy 235]

So many great reasons to come out and no good reasons to stay in. OUT !!!

The UK will thrive out of the EU.

[Crabbycanary3 994]

One point I have considered from the start, is that if we do leave, then our politicians are bricking themselves that they will have to make decisions themselves, without passing the buck, up the line, to Brussels. Some of them are definitely not up to the job.

[Herman 9,716]

[quote user="Crabbycanary3"]One point I have considered from the start, is that if we do leave, then our politicians are bricking themselves that they will have to make decisions themselves, without passing the buck, up the line, to Brussels. Some of them are definitely not up to the job.[/quote]If Cameron had the balls of his hero he may have got some meaningful reforms through and would have sailed through this IN/OUT vote. As it is he has been weak, his sidekicks are weak, and some of them not really 100% behind the IN campaign. Luckily the OUT campaign is run by opportunists, spivs and general flakes so he has a chance of keeping his job.As you say there is a lot of passing the buck. The whole immigration debate may have to be faced head on without being able to wash their hands. They don''t want that do they?!

[T 190]

Surprising so many for leaving when economics 101 and every economic forecast says uk would be worse off to exit.

Working internationally I see all the time that Europe economy suffers from lack of intergration compared to the federal set up of the US or the large economies of Asia. It is economic madness to leave especially when the economy is still struggling

The polls are clear. Those who paid attention in school and the young are pro Europe. Not sure why people are so scared about a land mass 20 odd miles away because of a little stretch of water. If people are not scared of other people and care about a fragile economy and the future of their children them it is clear to stay in. Without cooperation Europe and the U.K. Will fall further behind the us and Asia.

The us has significantly greater wealth per head. I like to think it is because they have a larger intergrated economy rather than that they are brighter. But perhaps that is not the case if the uk votes for a less intergrated economy. That does not mean that beauracy should not be avoided or that decisions should not be made locally wherever it makes sense.

Man emerged from the cave and progressed by cooperating not by isolating themselves. Let us not go backwards because of fear and ignorance.

[Indy 3,283]

Two things asked by a very good accountant......why ask the question when no one can forecast the true outcome either way?

The second regardless of the outcome, it will take years to finalise any withdraw from the EU, by which time Labour could be in government which would surely negate the Conservative promise of this referendum?

So is this not just a huge costing pointless excersize to see how much of the U.K population don''t like foreigners?

[FenwayFrank 2,456]

Anyone living in Norfolk that wasn''t born here is a foreigner to me 😀

[Indy 3,283]

If it was required I''m in.......but only because once out and it''s not the grass is greener there''s no way back in!

[ricardo 7,347]

[quote user="Indy"]Two things asked by a very good accountant......why ask the question when no one can forecast the true outcome either way?

The second regardless of the outcome, it will take years to finalise any withdraw from the EU, by which time Labour could be in government which would surely negate the Conservative promise of this referendum?

So is this not just a huge costing pointless excersize to see how much of the U.K population don''t like foreigners?[/quote]No government is tied by its predecessor regarding policy but I one that tried to negate a referendum result wouldn''t last very long.

[vos 155]

Ricardo. Talking about blowjobs. That''s a bit stiff coming from you. To think I always thought you were one of those very old respectable supporters like me. On Radio Norfolk today they have been on about perms coming back in to fashion. Were you a bit confused or forgot your hearing aids were not turned on!!!.

[ricardo 7,347]

[quote user="vos"]Ricardo. Talking about blowjobs. That''s a bit stiff coming from you. To think I always thought you were one of those very old respectable supporters like me. On Radio Norfolk today they have been on about perms coming back in to fashion. Were you a bit confused or forgot your hearing aids were not turned on!!!.[/quote]I''ll give you a tip Vos, Its no good if it isn''t stiff[;)]

I may be getting old Vos, but there''s nothing wrong with my memory.[:D]