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When we stay up, who would you clear out?

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Is that you giving up Bor? :-)

Bit concerned about making too many changes - regardless of which division we are in next season. Partly because AN/the Football Board''s recruitment record is very patchy to say the least, but also because too many changes can take quite a while to settle down into a team.

For that reason I''d keep Wes and O''Neil even though I''d like to think their input will be less next year.

I''d look to shift,

Ruddy,

Whits,

Bassong,

Turner,

Dorrens

Mulumbu

Bamford,

Andreu,

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Transfer-wise, we''re sort of in the same boat as last summer when we won''t be sure of which division we''ll be in until later than most of our rivals.

I know the board said they had plans for either eventuality last year, but McNally also said it made last summer''s dealings difficult. I hope it doesn''t hamper us this year.

And reading through others'' lists above suggests there''s a fair bit of chaff to dispose of.

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[quote user="Highland Canary"]With the departures of Klose, Olsson, Redmond, Wisdom and Mkobani we have gaping holes at both ends of the pitch. I suspect unloading some of the so-called underperformers such as Martin, Bassong, Dorrans, Mulumbu, Naismith and Jerome will be a luxury we are unable to afford. And remembering RvW, once again, will be returning for pre-season.[/quote]
The amount of times you''ve essentially guaranteed us Redmond''s leaving.......

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I will add that this thread is about a "clear out" and not a "sell-out."

It also refers to "staying up."

For the latter, Andreu, Jarvis and Whitts. (whose days seem numbered in any case) would top my list whilst Mulumbu (unfortunately) and Vadis (who has had scant opportunity to show his best) would bottom it. Bassong & Bennett would seem to have something to offer your average Championship side but we would need to have stronger options lined up first.

Not so sure about Naismith who is turning into a disappointment of RVW proportions, but at list he should have a fair market value. Cannot be certain of Bamford remaining as he too has had little opportunity, whilst signs are not good so far.

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"The amount of times you''ve essentially guaranteed us Redmond''s leaving......."

That''s because fittingly, for him, he has twisted the opening question around and his scenario is relegation not survival.

I got confused and others have as well.

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[quote user="CanaryOne"][quote user="Row D Seat 7"]As I''ve said before, I think we''ll go down, so the players I think will leave as a result of that are as follows: Whittaker, Lafferty, Klose, Naismith, Bassong, Ollson, Redmond, Mulumbu - I think all these players will have left the club by 1st September 2016.

I think we''ll hold on to Tettey, Brady, Howson, Ruddy, Martin etc.

Let''s hope we get the overhaul started early. The sooner we can assemble as largely new squad this summer, the better.[/quote]Do we really want a large overhaul by a manager whose transfer dealings so far verge on pathetic ? No doubt we will sign plenty from Scotland , already been linked with a striker from Hibs and Jamie Forrester from Celtic . Never known a manager to make so many signings and then fail to even play them , big question marks over Neil for me , under any other club owners he would of been sent packing back to the Scottish lower leagues by now .[/quote]

In answer to your question - yes

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i dont think AN is the man to find a player that fits a team instead of a position which he needs to gel a team

4 right backs this year and not one has made the position his own

it may well help now Tony Spearing is head of transfers / Scouting with the manager but AN will have the final say

(as he should as manager )

i feel that has let us down most this year the best young manager around so some say can not identify a player that fits a team

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norfolkngood,

I do not share your opinion that the manager has the final say. We have a Football Executive Board (apparently) which I believe is headed by our CEO and when formed included the First Team Manager, The Head of Player Recruitment and Scouting and the Technical Director.

Given the make up of the board I can only assume its prime objective was to identify and sign players to fill a need. If the Football Executive Board is being run democratically then surely there must be a majority in favour. If it is not run democratically and one person makes a decision, I suspect it wouldn''t be the First Team Manager.

Having identified the need and hopefully all agreed upon the player required, we then have the thorny issue of whether or not other clubs, players, agents, etc. actually want to deal with us (covered under my musings in another thread).

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[quote user="Ray"]norfolkngood,

I do not share your opinion that the manager has the final say. We have a Football Executive Board (apparently) which I believe is headed by our CEO and when formed included the First Team Manager, The Head of Player Recruitment and Scouting and the Technical Director.

Given the make up of the board I can only assume its prime objective was to identify and sign players to fill a need. If the Football Executive Board is being run democratically then surely there must be a majority in favour. If it is not run democratically and one person makes a decision, I suspect it wouldn''t be the First Team Manager.

Having identified the need and hopefully all agreed upon the player required, we then have the thorny issue of whether or not other clubs, players, agents, etc. actually want to deal with us (covered under my musings in another thread).[/quote]I would suggest though that if the opinions of this football board, and the manager differed wildly then the relationship wouldn''t last long.

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AN has final say on transfers at norwich city

the football board may find players and thats why Spearing has been brought in to sort out scouting

AN might ask the board for a player and told he would be to much etc so he can not get him in

but if the player is within budget and the board can do a deal wages fee etc AN is the man to say yes or no if he signs him or not

the scouting network will now have many local scouts which go to games all over europe etc and will report to a more senior scout

the local scouts get a ticket for the game and expenses this way you can cover alot of games cheaply

then if a player is getting rave reviews from the more senior scout thats when the football board watch him !

you can not have ricky martin / mcnally signing players for the first team and saying there you go alex up to you !

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Players out of contract will just disappear. Not easy to ship players out, you''ve got to find some idiot to buy them

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Morty,

A la lambert you mean!

I suppose you could take the following view (more musings I guess),

Then you could, not saying you would, recruit someone with experience who for some reason or other failed in his second season having lifted us up to the giddy heights of 11th, so get shot of him, then you could appoint an inexperienced individual, who may be more controllable (and grateful) and you could suggest at times who should and who should not be playing, then you could appoint two very experienced individuals, such as say, Phelan and Royle, who surprise, surprise decide to leave the club, so now you could get shot of the inexperienced one and you could bring in an incredibly young one who again has little experience and by definition may yet again be more controllable and probably grateful.

Then why you are at it, you could publicly and vehemently berate the Referee''s Assessor and you could expect that that wouldn''t get reported back and that it would have absolutely zero affect on all future decisions, including penalty shouts.

With all these musings, it''s a wonder I sleep at night!

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Rebuilding will be dependent on the Board freeing up funds to finance a rebuilding exercise. How much will see how many new players we can buy.

Players to go will be the loanees and those whose contracts expire including Whittaker. Loza will go hasn''t done anything on loan getting older. Most of the others postulated to leave will be ok for a championship tilt the experience will benefit us. RVW needs to be bought off but we cannot afford it whilst in Champ.

Others still in contract will not be sold as no one will buy them.

Positions we must cover are a new CB so we can dump Bassong. And new strikers to supplement Jerome hopefully with a bit of pace and guile.

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If we go down we would be stupid to shift anyone out to a rival.

And I didn''t see any other Prem clubs beating on our door to procure our players during the last couple of Windows.

Maybe we should be nicknamed "the undesirables"!

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[quote user="Ray"]Morty,

A la lambert you mean!

I suppose you could take the following view (more musings I guess),

Then you could, not saying you would, recruit someone with experience who for some reason or other failed in his second season having lifted us up to the giddy heights of 11th, so get shot of him, then you could appoint an inexperienced individual, who may be more controllable (and grateful) and you could suggest at times who should and who should not be playing, then you could appoint two very experienced individuals, such as say, Phelan and Royle, who surprise, surprise decide to leave the club, so now you could get shot of the inexperienced one and you could bring in an incredibly young one who again has little experience and by definition may yet again be more controllable and probably grateful.

Then why you are at it, you could publicly and vehemently berate the Referee''s Assessor and you could expect that that wouldn''t get reported back and that it would have absolutely zero affect on all future decisions, including penalty shouts.

With all these musings, it''s a wonder I sleep at night![/quote]Phelan''s timing was unlucky as the new manager wanted his own people, and Royle left for family reasons, did he not?Not sure where you are heading with this lol, yes it is a wonder you sleep!

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Morty,

For now take it as you find it, but rest assured you couldn''t make up some of my musings.

And for the avoidance of doubt, I note your concern, I sleep very well.

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We''re in a situation where a cummulative lack of investment in players in the 21-25 age bracket means we need to replace several older players at once ie an age-related black hole has developed.We need a large clear out because of the above, and need to reinvest in the best younger players we can afford, players who have some first team experience and have demonstrated potential (Howson''s transfer from Leeds being a prime example).We have to mainly buy young, with an eye to develop and sell at a profit instead of throwing money at trying to buy a squad for instant promotion. Buying predominantly experienced players hasn''t worked over the longer term, our ''Premier League quality'' squad of two years ago has proved to not be as good as many once thought.With relegation in mind our remit should be to develop a new younger squad to play a technical passing game instead of blindly aiming at promotion. Here''s what I''d do :-Return to senderAndre WisdomDieumerci Mbokani

Look to buy post loan expiryPatrick Bamford

Sell in order to fund a rebuildJohn RuddyTimm KloseMichael Turner (let go if out of contract)Steven Whittaker (let go if out of contract)Graham DorransYoussouf MulumbuNathan RedmondSteven NaismithKyle LaffertyRicky van Wolfswinkel

Keep initially, but look to sellSébastien BassongMartin OlssonMatt JarvisGary O''NeilAlexander TetteyTony AndreuCameron Jerome

KeepDeclan RuddRyan BennettRussell MartinRobbie BradyIvo PintoJonny HowsonWes HoolahanVadis Odjidja-Ofoe

Younger players to keep (or trade to upgrade)Jake KeanBen GodfreyEbou AdamsHarry ToffoloRemi MatthewsLouis ThompsonConor McGrandlesJames MaddisonJamar LozaJacob MurphyJosh Murphy

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From FF:-

"If 93 vintage was manager I''d hand back my season ticket."

Yes sorry 93, but our priority should be for the quickest possible return, that division can become a quicksand. The longer you are in it the more of a Championship outfit you can become as finances diminish. We mostly have a strong squad at that level so the fewest out as is possible, apart from the "exit" door favourites.

Just look at the History Boys down the road. The best possible example of stagnation in the Chumps.

I do like your retention of Bamford, but think we should pull out all the stops to retain Redmond.

Anyhow this thread is based upon the policy for staying up.

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Going back to the OP, my retained squad if we were to stay up would be:

GK-Ruddy, Rudd, (other);

RB-Pinto, Martin;

CB-Bennett, Klose, (other);

LB-Olsson, Tofollo;

DM-(other), O''Neil;

RM- Redmond, Murphy(s);

CM- Howson, Dorrans, (other);

LM-Brady, Murphy(s);

CAM- Hoolahan, Maddison;

ST- (other, other), Jerome

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Get rid of Gary Holt and The Pie Man and Not so handy Andy back to Hamilton

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[quote user="FenwayFrank"]If 93 vintage was manager I''d hand back my season ticket[/quote]I''m glad you said that FF, I thought it might be me that was hopelessly out of touch!

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[quote user="BroadstairsR"]From FF:-

"If 93 vintage was manager I''d hand back my season ticket."

Yes sorry 93, but our priority should be for the quickest possible return, that division can become a quicksand. The longer you are in it the more of a Championship outfit you can become as finances diminish. We mostly have a strong squad at that level so the fewest out as is possible, apart from the "exit" door favourites.

Just look at the History Boys down the road. The best possible example of stagnation in the Chumps.

I do like your retention of Bamford, but think we should pull out all the stops to retain Redmond.

Anyhow this thread is based upon the policy for staying up.[/quote]Who would you keep? Most that I have down to leave will be over 30 in a year''s time, and many of the younger retainees probably won''t quite be ready to become regulars (some probably won''t make the grade).We''ve not really invested since Lambert left, and stagnation in the Chumps will come if we carry on like last time and don''t invest in the future.

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Depends on what league we are in to a certain extent.

But the obvious priorities are centre forward, central defence and now central midfield as well.

So basically most of the same positions we knew we were short in before this season began!

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"Who would you keep? Most that I have down to leave will be over 30 in a year''s time, and many of the younger retainees probably won''t quite be ready to become regulars (some probably won''t make the grade).

We''ve not really invested since Lambert left, and stagnation in the Chumps will come if we carry on like last time and don''t invest in the future."

As I''ve said Redmond''s retention should be a top priority whatever our fate. Klose would be important too, along with Olsson and probably O''Neill.

I get that a transition, as you have outlined, is now due but feel that this needs to be done more gradually and over the course of the next three windows rather that in the form of an instant cull, which I feel would be disastrous and tantamount to washing the baby out with the bathwater, as they say. Although, as you say, a lot of the squad are far from being babies.

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[quote user="BroadstairsR"]"Who would you keep? Most that I have down to leave will be over 30 in a year''s time, and many of the younger retainees probably won''t quite be ready to become regulars (some probably won''t make the grade).

We''ve not really invested since Lambert left, and stagnation in the Chumps will come if we carry on like last time and don''t invest in the future."

As I''ve said Redmond''s retention should be a top priority whatever our fate. Klose would be important too, along with Olsson and probably O''Neill.

I get that a transition, as you have outlined, is now due but feel that this needs to be done more gradually and over the course of the next three windows rather that in the form of an instant cull, which I feel would be disastrous and tantamount to washing the baby out with the bathwater, as they say. Although, as you say, a lot of the squad are far from being babies.[/quote]Normally I''d agree with keeping Redmond, except I''d expect him to leave when his contract runs out (in a year''s time?). If he signs a new contract then yes keep.I was a Klose fan when others on here were writing him off after a couple of games, but I can''t see him sticking around to play in the Champs. He''s more borderline than some of the others, I suppose it depends on money at the end of the day.I''d rather we rebuilt next season should we get relegated as I see it being more difficult to do if we put it off. If for instance we didn''t get promoted after ''going for it'' then we''d be a year behind with a bigger job, and greater risk of another lost decade.

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It is going to cost but if we can do what Norwich used to do when we yoyo''d. We need to get in the best championship players we can, great free agents who have leadership qualities like o''neill.

93 vintage way off the mark. It is about a quick return and returning with better players. The group we have had for the last few years have struggled to stay up prior to our relegation 2 years ago. So I hope we go up with improvements from those individuals.

Of course that is If we go down. If we stay up then we can do the same and also pay for some GENUINE match winners and quality.

A comment I really agree with is that we never got the core our team improved in the summer and we still know that is a problem, the centre back pairing, central midfield and striker. I look forward to the summer with new additions, last season cannot be repeated whatever division we are in. Can AN and team get the best quality is another question. If we have players like Andreu, Dorrans and molumbu then we worry.

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[quote user="smooth"]It is about a quick return and returning with better players. The group we have had for the last few years have struggled to stay up prior to our relegation 2 years ago. So I hope we go up with improvements from those individuals.

Of course that is If we go down.[/quote]I don''t disagree about a quick return with better players as an ideal, but not at the expense of the long term health of the squad and our long term ability to stay up.If we''d consistently bought with a wiser age policy then we''d not be in the present dire situation where we need to replace so many aging players in a relatively short space of time. Quality will be the first casualty if we carry on as before, along with our ability to bounce back.Relative to other PL teams I''d say we haven''t improved our squad, and we''ve struggled to compete. We need to be a lot smarter than trying to buy instant success.

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