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Matt Morriss

If you keep doing what youve been doing..

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..you''ll keep getting what you''ve been getting.

I feel a bit like having no sympathy today for AN and the whole club really. They''ve brought it on themselves and have got no one to blame. There''s lots of people involved from AN to the scouts thru to McNally and Delia.

It''s painfully obvious to me and everyone i imagine, seemingly outside the club, and was before we''d ever kicked a ball this season, yet we have done it over and over again and with no surprise got the same results.

I am of course talking about Bassong in defence and Jerome up front.

It''s so obvious these two are just not good enough and I''m at a loss as to why more wasn''t done by those in charge to bring in better players, in these two key positions, when we have clearly had the money.

Klose got injured and Naismith has been awful, so I guess they have tried. But we should have never got to January before we realised we needed a Klose and a Naismith (no one ever needs a Naismith he''s a bag of shit but you get the point).

The difference was enormous when Klose, a proper defender''s defender, if that makes sense, came in and shored up the defence. And had he not got injured at Palace I''m certain we would have stayed up.

Goals have of course been an issue and they were always going to be the second no replacement for Jerome was bought.

Jerome poses zero goal threat, and Bassong will always be involved in goals conceded.

There''s a lot of defence of Bassong on another thread, and whilst he was ok today, albeit against a lacklustre Utd attack, another mistake and another goal conceded.

Anyone saying it''s not his fault and he''s a good defender, look again at Welbecks goal last week and tell me Timm Klose would have done the same. Jumping in the air waving his arms around only for the ball to go under his foot and in.

These are not the actions of a good quality premier league defender.

So the club only have themselves to blame for not replacing Bassong and Jerome. And we''re going down Wednesday night because of it.

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I''m fairly sure the club tried to sign lots of players in the summer and the reason we were unsuccessful in getting our primary targets has, I am sure, been the source of some serious discussion and soul-searching within the club''s management.
The thing is, with the wages we can offer due to our prudent approach, we are always going to struggle to attract better players who can earn more money elsewhere.  We will never be able to sign proven PL quality players until we are prepared to pay the going rate.
The club''s management needs to decide whether we want to be an established PL club and, if so, loosen the financial constraints we operate under.
This season will be a massive disappointment for the club''s management as much as for the fans and perhaps it will prompt that level of rethinking, assuming we are able to get back into the PL relatively quickly.
To be fair, Bassong was only playing today because Klose (and possibly Bennett) were not available.  We are never going to be a club with real squad depth for the financial constraints mentioned above.
Bassong seems to have shaded Martin for scapegoat at least.

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I dont accept the wage structure issue. Benik Afobe scored as many goals as Jerome in 6 matches. I doubt he''s on £80k a week.

If we can''t pay premier wages then we should have gone for someone like Afobe or Rhodes. Going with Jerome was suicide and so it has proved.

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[quote user="ridgeman"]If we can''t pay Premiership wages we shouldn''t be in the Premiership.[/quote]
Well, give it until Thursday morning...

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ridgeman wrote the following post at 07/05/2016 8:02 PM:

If we can''t pay Premiership wages we shouldn''t be in the Premiership.

This. We''ve gone down with a wimper and that is from everyone involved at the club from the boardroom to the pitch.

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[quote user="Huckerbys Boots - Matt"]I dont accept the wage structure issue. Benik Afobe scored as many goals as Jerome in 6 matches. I doubt he''s on £80k a week.

If we can''t pay premier wages then we should have gone for someone like Afobe or Rhodes. Going with Jerome was suicide and so it has proved.[/quote]
Apparently Afobe is on £50k a week at Bournemouth (i.e. according to a Google search).
Also apparently (again, according to some ITK poster on Twitter so who really knows) our highest earner is Mulumbu on £37.5k/week.
Not convinced that Afobe or Rhodes, decent Championship players, would have been any better than Cameron Jerome who scored shedloads in the Championship last season himself.

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If Mulumbu is on £37.5k a week for sitting on his arse then heads should roll.

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Katie Borkins wrote:

"To be fair, Bassong was only playing today because Klose (and possibly Bennett) were not available. We are never going to be a club with real squad depth for the financial constraints mentioned above.

Bassong seems to have shaded Martin for scapegoat at least."

A couple of points re: the above. Yes, Bassong (and Martin) were at the back today because of injuries but it was out of management choice that that filled those positions for most of the pre-Christmas matches i.e. half of our matches.

Secondly, the association of the word scapegoat with Bassong and Martin. My understanding of the word (scapegoat) is when the blame for something is laid at the feet of an innocent, to deflect attention from those responsible. On that basis, after seasons of diabolical individual errors from the pair of them, why are we introducing the word scapegoat?

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AN persisted with playing Bassong and Martin for half the season when other options were available. Same is true of Olsson and Brady. Amazingly its only recently that he has finally managed to work out his best back four.

Jerome didn''t have to be picked today. How many times does AN need to see him miss guilt edged chances before the penny drops? Mbokani might not be the best striker the Premier League has seen but he is more likely to score than Jerome.

Sure the squad is not the best and keeping us up is a tough ask but AN hasn''t made the most of the limited resources he has available.

I''m not convinced he is learning quickly enough and I''m very worried that we could fritter away our best opportunity of getting back up next year if he stays. IMO.

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[quote user="danielsroundabout"]Katie Borkins wrote:

"To be fair, Bassong was only playing today because Klose (and possibly Bennett) were not available. We are never going to be a club with real squad depth for the financial constraints mentioned above.

Bassong seems to have shaded Martin for scapegoat at least."

A couple of points re: the above. Yes, Bassong (and Martin) were at the back today because of injuries but it was out of management choice that that filled those positions for most of the pre-Christmas matches i.e. half of our matches.

Secondly, the association of the word scapegoat with Bassong and Martin. My understanding of the word (scapegoat) is when the blame for something is laid at the feet of an innocent, to deflect attention from those responsible. On that basis, after seasons of diabolical individual errors from the pair of them, why are we introducing the word scapegoat?[/quote]
Because claiming they have had seasons of "diabolical individual errors" is scapegoating.  Yes of course they have made mistakes, as have all our players and most players in the Premier League.  Nobody is saying they are fantastic PL standard defenders, but let''s not pretend they c*ck up every single game they play in.

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The error frequency from the pair of them is and has long been far too high. Bassong was so poor back in the Championship that he had to be removed from the team and then, unbelievably, he was restored to start the Premiership campaign. Some folk never learn. And as for Martin as a centre back, his performances, originally on the back of him telling successive managers that it was his best position, eventually so destroyed his confidence that he remained a liability even when played at right back.

Scapegoating would be to blame anybody else for their all-too-frequent failings.

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Actually it would be good to see a montage of Bassongs errors which have lead to goals in a city shirt. It would be interesting if it''s as many as we believe.

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[quote user="Indy"]Actually it would be good to see a montage of Bassongs errors which have lead to goals in a city shirt. It would be interesting if it''s as many as we believe.[/quote]

I''m sure it is as many as we think and more if you add in the stupid sluggish fouls that have gifted penalties and then goals.

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[quote user="Katie Borkins"][quote user="danielsroundabout"]Katie Borkins wrote:

"To be fair, Bassong was only playing today because Klose (and possibly Bennett) were not available. We are never going to be a club with real squad depth for the financial constraints mentioned above.

Bassong seems to have shaded Martin for scapegoat at least."

A couple of points re: the above. Yes, Bassong (and Martin) were at the back today because of injuries but it was out of management choice that that filled those positions for most of the pre-Christmas matches i.e. half of our matches.

Secondly, the association of the word scapegoat with Bassong and Martin. My understanding of the word (scapegoat) is when the blame for something is laid at the feet of an innocent, to deflect attention from those responsible. On that basis, after seasons of diabolical individual errors from the pair of them, why are we introducing the word scapegoat?[/quote]
Because claiming they have had seasons of "diabolical individual errors" is scapegoating.  Yes of course they have made mistakes, as have all our players and most players in the Premier League.  Nobody is saying they are fantastic PL standard defenders, but let''s not pretend they c*ck up every single game they play in.
[/quote]

Errrr, Bassong does exactly that.

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[quote user="Indy"]Actually it would be good to see a montage of Bassongs errors which have lead to goals in a city shirt. It would be interesting if it''s as many as we believe.[/quote]

Trust me it is, their ingrained in my mind. Watford away, Newcastle away as examples. Some are really obvious, some are subtle that you dont notice unless you know your football and know what a defender should be doing.

Time and time again Bassong consistently makes glaring errors and even more subtle defensive mistakes that are basic defending errors. The Arsenal goal being a classic example. Watch it again and it''s another basic defending error.

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The way people are talking is like they think everything would have been fine if only bloody Ryan Bennett had been fit. He''s hardly Franco Baresi is he?! Absolute joke of a squad defensively bar Klose to be honest. What''s the point in going for the likes of Van Dijk and Koulibaly etc. some more sensible scouting and we could have got some useful players instead of waiting until the end of January for Klose.

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Statistically, Squawka have Bassong and Martin both down for four individual errors that have led directly to a chance this season. This puts them both in the top 15 for outfield players this season. Now this is obviously only a mistake that leads directly to a shot on goal (Martin''s backpasss v Liverpool, Bassong yesterday) so doesn''t cover everything. When you narrow this down to just defenders they are both in the top 10.

As a rather damning aside if you look at there overall ''performance score (I don''t really like these style of stats though) for defenders who''ve played 5 or more games this season, 4 of the bottom 10 play for Norwich.

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Unfortunately our squad quality and depth just isn''t there and the ripping up of the scouting system post the summer is testament to that. We find ourselves just like two seasons ago needing Sunderland to lose at home. Last time it was WBA and now Everton.

At least with the summer it gives the chance to reboot the squad, accept that Redmond Brady and Klose will be leaving. Look to offload Bassong and then start bringing in some better quality defenders. We also have Maddison coming in as well as a few loan returns .

Defence is getting a lot of blame but issues are also in central midfield . Quite how O''Neill became a regular is testament to that lack of quality and depth in squad

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[quote user="Tommo"]Unfortunately our squad quality and depth just isn''t there and the ripping up of the scouting system post the summer is testament to that. We find ourselves just like two seasons ago needing Sunderland to lose at home. Last time it was WBA and now Everton.

At least with the summer it gives the chance to reboot the squad, accept that Redmond Brady and Klose will be leaving. Look to offload Bassong and then start bringing in some better quality defenders. We also have Maddison coming in as well as a few loan returns .

Defence is getting a lot of blame but issues are also in central midfield . Quite how O''Neill became a regular is testament to that lack of quality and depth in squad[/quote]

O''neill has obviously been helped by the Tettey injury and the fact that we didn''t do our homework on Mulumbu properly. Other players should also look at themselves and feel embarrassed that our best player for the second half of the season as been an ageing journeyman, free transfer.

It''s pretty damning that also when you look at the team it quite often only has 1 or 2 AN signings in it, despite spending 30 odd million. Massive improvement needed in the transfer market whichever division we find ourselves.

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@Yellowbeagle

I was making a similar point last season about how many of NA''s signings were actually playing- I believe we started the play-off final with just one of his 8 signings in the starting 11- as many Adams signings as Glenn Roeder signings!

The core of our squad is still the same as it was three years ago because we''ve consistently messed up in the transfer market. Other clubs have evolved and improved while we''ve stood still.

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I think some of Neil Adams signings have proved good value for us though at different times while in the championship like Jerome, Grabban and O''Neill and his job was more about holding players like Ruddy, Olsson, Tettey, Redmond and Hoolahan to the club at a time thy probably considered jumping ship.

AN signings however have been terrible, I think this is the area he''s shown real inexperience and I think a totally inadequate scouting system must be making it worse for him. If AN is to stay as manager and I think he should, this has to improve we can''t spend what we have have and see so little improvement in the playing staff.

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[quote user="Katie Borkins"][quote user="Huckerbys Boots - Matt"]I dont accept the wage structure issue. Benik Afobe scored as many goals as Jerome in 6 matches. I doubt he''s on £80k a week.

If we can''t pay premier wages then we should have gone for someone like Afobe or Rhodes. Going with Jerome was suicide and so it has proved.[/quote]
Apparently Afobe is on £50k a week at Bournemouth (i.e. according to a Google search).
Also apparently (again, according to some ITK poster on Twitter so who really knows) our highest earner is Mulumbu on £37.5k/week.
Not convinced that Afobe or Rhodes, decent Championship players, would have been any better than Cameron Jerome who scored shedloads in the Championship last season himself.
[/quote]

I can''t help but agree with Katie on this one. Doesn''t seem to matter who we buy, because within a month or so, they are a shadow of their old selves (Klose aside). We seem to have the ability to get the very worst out of players, and this has been the way for all mangers since Lambert.

I know managers have their own training set ups, etc, but is there a bigger problem at the club causing this?

- Players don''t appear to be particularly fit

- we are consistently making (the same) silly errors

- players don''t seem ''match smart'' (as much as I hate it, throwing yourself to the floor occasionally has its uses)

I''m don''t have any answers, only questions...and questions that go beyond this (or any) manager and this season. I''m not blaming Delia or McNally either - this is on the playing side.

I get the feeling that, this season, Alex Neil has been like Indiana Jones in Raiders of the Lost Ark - nothing he has done has made the slightest bit of difference to the end result. For someone of his forcefulness and outlook on life, that is amazing!

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[quote user="Huckerbys Boots - Matt"]..you''ll keep getting what you''ve been getting. [/quote]Well what we''re getting might not be ideal, it might not be as good as it could be and it probably isn''t as good as everyone wants, but what we get is a hell of a lot better than what most Clubs get.Just look at the last 8 years -
  1. Relegation
  2. Promotion
  3. Promotion
  4. Consolidation
  5. Narrow escape
  6. Relegation
  7. Promotion (including a win at Wembley)
  8. Relegation
Most football supporters don''t get that much excitement in a lifetime, let alone in 8 years.Compare that to some of the Clubs who have been stuck in the Championship for years on end with little prospect of going down and virtually no hope of getting promoted.Scratching around, week in & week out and experiencing absolutely zilch.Where is the the fun or excitement in that?So we may not have the richest owners, the most experienced board, a best manager or World Class players but by Christ, as NCFC supporters we do have an interesting and unpredictable life.Sometimes, in the over all scheme of things, keeping on doing what you''ve been doing, is not that bad.

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