Alex neil Learns From His Mistakes

[king canary 7,599]

Lol at the idea that someone talking about our points total has been dismissed as a ''statto.''

''Oh god you care about how many POINTS we got? You huge nerd!''

[hogesar 9,653]

I think Hughton had much more to play with. As Grant Holt said on the scrimmage, Hughton had a team who''d spent 2 seasons in the premier league, didn''t make the right signings, never tried an alternative way of playing and we went down.

It''s worth remembering both Hughton and Lambert had more managerial experience than Alex Neil, who''s now had a season to learn and adapt to the Prem.

[ricardo 7,380]

If we don''t look like contenders early on he will be gone before Xmas.The parachute payments tail off quickly and if we don''t go straight back up there will need to be serious cuts to the budget.

[ZLF 273]

or sooner if The Secret Footballer is to be believed...

But I agree with Ricardo - a strengthening summer and a good start is a must

[It's Character Forming 1,160]

[quote user="BroadstairsR"]Hughton didn''t actually relegate us McNa (oops) Neil Adams did. You never could have written off just what rabbit ''Houdini'' Hughton might have pulled out of the bag. He was not given a chance due to what was, IMO, one of the most bizarre decisions in the history of our Club. The Hoots deserved the sack, but not then. He did well in his first season. A major factor in the outcome of his second was having an £8m flop as a mill-stone around his neck. That''s yesteryear though. I am only prepared to give AN ten games next season now due to our abject ending to the season just gone. Ten games, top six minimum, with some good signings on board and some good showings on the field of play both a necessity.[/quote]

 

Have to agree it was a bizarre decision to sack Hughton when we did.  I think he had no idea of how to try to setup the team to get a win by then,  so I wouldn''t lose any sleep over the chance he might have kept us up though (I think it''s more likely I''ll win the lottery) but to put in someone with no experience for 5 games was just daft.    I think Hughton has to take the main responsibility for signing RVW, which I agree was the major factor in our failure that season.  My take is that Hughton just didn''t "get" the attacking side of the game and thought if you brought in players like RVW and Hooper with a record of scoring goals, that was that part of the squad taken care of (the previous season he got lucky with Holt still being in the team and being ideally suited to Hughton''s style of play). 

 

I''m beginning to feel that bringing in Naismith was a similar mistake - I''ve never seen out team really work, as a whole, in a game he has played in.  So I agree that AN needs to show a good start next season and if we are below the top 6 after 10 games, it would probably be time to change.

 

 

[GJP 79]

Hughton had his doubts about RVW right up until the moment someone else pushed the "Go" button on the transfer.

[It's Character Forming 1,160]

[quote user="GJP"]Hughton had his doubts about RVW right up until the moment someone else pushed the "Go" button on the transfer.[/quote]

 

I''m curious how this is known ?  But if so, as the manager he should have said, if he had a problem with it (or is it hindsight talking, I wonder).  No club would pay a record transfer fee if the manager objected to the signing.

 

Either way, this idea (if accurately reported) makes me think the worse of Hughton.  If he had serious doubts - and didn''t stop the transfer going ahead - then that''s worse than if he thought RVW was a good player and was happy with the signing.  Anyone can make a genuine mistake about the quality of a player coming in, but as a manager to allow a club to sign someone - for a record fee - you''re not happy with is just appalling.  Or, if it''s just hindsight ("I always had my doubts") then that''s just a bit sad and whingy. And every bit as annoying as him saying he''d have kept us up, if he''d not been sacked with 5 games to go, which is also desperate.

[GJP 79]

It''s not exactly unheard of these days for players to be signed over the manager.

Hughton may have made his doubts known but that didn''t stop the transfer going ahead.

[YorkshirePudding 0]

OP have you not considered the many factors, we had more injuries in the second half of the season, with arguably more difficult fixtures too.

It''s not as simple as just ''learning your mistakes'' in the PL

[PurpleCanary 5,556]

[quote user="Its Character Forming"]

[quote user="GJP"]Hughton had his doubts about RVW right up until the moment someone else pushed the "Go" button on the transfer.[/quote]

 

I''m curious how this is known ?  But if so, as the manager he should have said, if he had a problem with it (or is it hindsight talking, I wonder).  No club would pay a record transfer fee if the manager objected to the signing.

 

Either way, this idea (if accurately reported) makes me think the worse of Hughton.  If he had serious doubts - and didn''t stop the transfer going ahead - then that''s worse than if he thought RVW was a good player and was happy with the signing.  Anyone can make a genuine mistake about the quality of a player coming in, but as a manager to allow a club to sign someone - for a record fee - you''re not happy with is just appalling.  Or, if it''s just hindsight ("I always had my doubts") then that''s just a bit sad and whingy. And every bit as annoying as him saying he''d have kept us up, if he''d not been sacked with 5 games to go, which is also desperate.

[/quote]The only other English club that I have seen that was seriously linked with van Wolfswinkel before we signed was Newcastle United, in August 2010, when Chris Hughton was their manager. That may be a coincidence, or it may not. Even if it is an irrelevant coincidence that still doesn''t mean Hughton was not in favour of the signing. I am highly dubious, to put it mildly, that we would have spent so much money on a signing the manager didn''t rate. If we were run on the lines of some other clubs, with a director of football or a super-scout in charge of selecting signings rather than the manager, it might be different, but we never have been.From memory the football board, such as it has been, was actually either set up or beefed up in the wake of what was seen as Hughton''s squandering of a record amount of money that summer.

[westcoastcanary 173]

[quote user="ricardo"]If we don''t look like contenders early on he will be gone before Xmas.The parachute payments tail off quickly and if we don''t go straight back up there will need to be serious cuts to the budget.[/quote] Surely the last five seasons ought to have convinced people of the futility of this way of thinking? None of the clubs we seek to emulate have managed to establish themselves in the EPL without lengthy preceding periods (several years) of relative stability and steady team building. As 93vintage has repeatedly posted, at some point we have to stop thinking of getting back up as our first objective and instead focus on getting back up with a realistic prospect of staying there. If this means forgoing an immediate return to the EPL, so be it. There is some indication that the club now understand and accept this (see below) and the backing shown by the majority of fans after the Watford game suggests that they do also. 

"The Norwich manager has spoken in the past about wanting to mould a club in his own image, to construct something lasting that contradicts perhaps the thirst for short-term fixes in his precarious profession. The goodwill is there on the terraces and in the boardroom ...............This is not simply about targeting an immediate return to the top flight but putting the pillars in place for longer term sustainability." (Paddy Davitt in the EDP).

[Well b back 3,198]

[quote user="GJP"]Well Lambert and Hughton did better with lesser squads so it doesn''t really stack that he''s had "nothing to work with".

Perhaps he just didn''t have enough about him to squeeze that bit extra out of them - which is what makes the difference for a Norwich manager in the Prem[/quote]

Lambert inherited a squad 3 times better than ours at Villa added to it and still managed to help get them where they are today ?

[Thecanaryfan 0]

Liverpool were very serious about Van Wolfswinkel during his free scoring days at Ultrect. But ended interest after he broke his collarbone (at Anfield of all places).

They went on to sign Saurez I believe.

[It's Character Forming 1,160]

[quote user="GJP"]It''s not exactly unheard of these days for players to be signed over the manager. Hughton may have made his doubts known but that didn''t stop the transfer going ahead.[/quote]

 

I''m genuinely curious where the idea has come from that Hughton had his doubts before we signed RVW ?

[sonyc 5,508]

I have accepted our relegation now and like others have felt less emotionally involved about it than previous times. Perhaps it''s age and a broader set of lens and perspective about what kind we are. Quite provincial, community ethos, fans as owners etc. The Little Norwich tag has never bothered me much, I guess in the same way perhaps as Milwall fans almost like to feel hated as part of their make up and identity, so something in me likes us to be the underdog. I also like our owners and their values etc. But also I do think we will never be the kind of PL staple club whilst they are around. They don''t have the money. Then I am happy for them to be around too a bit longer ( and let''s face it they may only be around for another year or two).

Relegation this time has made me think and reflect much more. I''m of the view that Alex Neil may indeed have found out a lot about himself. He has a strong driven personal narrative that seems to sit so squarely and transparently in what he says. He is proud of it and sees himself as strong. He has spoken directly and obliquely about this spirit many times. I can see how that might appeal to the modern footballer. I am convinced too that it was his strength, belief and guidance that gave the team such a wonderful Wembley performance. Can he continue in this vein?

I''m not so sure he can..... posters are correct that those first 10 games will be telling. The Championship will be strong. The chances of taking it by storm with the nucleus of the current team are very unlikely in my view. A massive overhaul will also see a new team having to settle. Teams that do well are nearly always settled teams, learning each others'' tactics, playing styles. Burnley have played it brilliantly. But QPR and Fulham are exactly the opposite. I am quite, quite sure we will underwhelm next season. Perhaps flirting with lower mid table. Neil will be gone by November too if this is the case. We have sampled the PL now and our expectations are so high. Fans on here think we will bounce straight back. We should be competitive but I certainly don''t expect us to be that competitive. Maybe AN can prove me wrong. Let''s hope so. I have have very little expectation writing this in May however. I may feel different in August. Our team and the club itself this year has under performed at almost every level. Neil is part of that. His tactics etc. have been left wanting. And I am happy for him to stay . I love this independent spirit he has. Yet....There is a deeper problem (possibly at board level who knows) and it won''t resolve fully in the next season. Half glass empty I remain.

[OldRobert 38]

[quote user="sonyc"] I also like our owners and their values etc. But also I do think we will never be the kind of PL staple club whilst they are around. They don''t have the money. [/quote]The key sentence in your post to our advancement, or lack of it.

[Alfie54 76]

I really don''t see him getting sacked after 10 games, much more likely to blunder on until the new year as he will ''still be learning from his mistakes and he is one of the best young managers around''. So after the January window fails again, the panic decisions will start.

How long should the apprenticeship last?