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Losing our whitts

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Agree totally, unfortunately AN''s comments on Pinkun this morning read like we''re going backwards rather than forwards.

You''ve just mentioned three players who are not good enough, get shot of them.

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It rather depends what the strategic vision is.

If Pinto stays, then you are recruiting for a capable 2nd choice right back in the championship.

In these circumstances it is typical to undervalue what you already have. So given that Whittaker knows he does not have a Premier League starting place, he has clearly demonstrated the character to form part of the squad for this level. It is perfectly arguable that he is a good no2 option at this level.

Creating a strong squad in the Championship can be difficult, because a back up Premier role is a considerably sexier sell than its Championship equivalent.

Such a move would also indicate that Martin would now be considered predominantly a (Championship) Centre Back.

Parma

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I remember when dropping him was the answer to all our problems.

Then we did drop him and ended up being worse for it.

Lol.

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And yet somehow he couldn''t work his way back into the team, funny that.

He just isn''t very good at defending which is kind of a key thing for a right back. Squawka have him rated as the worst defender in the league who has played more than 5 games this season and WhoScored have him rated as our worst this season. I know these stats are not be all and end all but combining these scores with what I see from my own eyes makes me feel pretty comfortable in my opinion that he just isn''t very good.

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The funny thing is he''s probably still the best RB at the club (although I am sure Pinto will continue to improve and will soon claim this honour).

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With Wisdom going back and only having one proper left back on our books in Olsson, keeping Whittaker as an experienced, regular international who can play on either side isn''t a bad choice. He is very good at Championship level and has done well in the Prem at times as well. He has performed very well for us a lot of the time, and yes he''s made some mistakes, but so has every single one of our defenders, perhaps aside of Klose.

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You are right, this is depressing

and runs totally counter to what Neil said last week

we are seeking to refresh, make the squad younger etc

We are apparently offering contracts to someone is turning 32 and a 33 year old.

Its a sign that we are being prudent again ie totally unambitious, we are about to get 37M in parachute money ffs

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So he hasn''t been on the bench or in the team for quite a while and suddenly he''s a world beater.

He will go forward with the play and pass the ball around all fine and good until possession is lost.

Then the look of panic as he realises that he is in the wrong part of the stadium and Mr Slow tries to get back to defend.

The hands on hips and head dropping as yet again he watches from 20 yards behind the attack.

Not Good Enough + Not Getting Better.

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[quote user="Number 9"]So he hasn''t been on the bench or in the team for quite a while and suddenly he''s a world beater.[/quote]Said no one, ever.

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But we don''t get that £37 Million in one chunk, there isn''t cheque waiting for us to pay in for that amount.The payments are staggered over 12 months.Then there is the wage bill. Even with relegation related cuts to the players wages taken into account, cutting the yearly wage bill of £37 million (thats one source and its conservative compared to others) by a third still means the club has to find near enough £25 million a year for player wages alone.Then there is all the other staff, Colney improvements etc, payment of any fees due to existing players-signing on fees, bonuses etc.We HAVE to be prudent. The football club is a business, like it or not, and has, like it or not, to be ran like one-something, incidentally, that our bankers will be more than making sure we are doing-how they must shudder at holding the accounts of most football clubs and you can''t blame them.  One of the reasons we are not considered a viable investment by those looking to get into football and own a footall club is because the club is so well ran and managed financially-Villa, Leicester, Southampton, Leeds-they weren''t up, running and looking good when they all had money pumped into them by new owners. They got the money because they were up shit creek and desperate to sell.And then there is that word that everyone uses- "investment", that is, to allocate money (or sometimes another resource,

such as time) in the expectation of some benefit in the future. In

finance, the expected future benefit from  investment is a return. How much money is someone going to have to put into our club before they can expect any sort of return on it?
Just as you and I run our own household finances or businesses in the same way. We could all show our ambition and get a mortgage for an eight bedroomed house in Burnham Market  or expand our business into a four floored modern complex in Norwich-but would you do it??People expect the football club to behave in a way with its money that they would never contemplate doing with their own.You can cry out for ambition but it isn''t as simple as going out there and buying it as if it was a commodity that was physically available.

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I understand the idea of not throwing everything out. However this is a player who has been nowhere near the first 11 since October (and for good reason) whose contract is expiring. He''s third choice right back and left back so why waste money renewing his contract?

He''s at best an average Championship right back. He looks decent going forward but his positioning is poor and he doesn''t have the pace to make up for it. You can get away with that sometimes in the Championship but if we want to be a Premier League team there is no point keeping players around who we know are not good enough.

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Depending on what we do with Russell Martin, I can''t see the point in keeping Whitts but if he''s prepared to take a large pay cut, he''s useful at this level.

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People need to be realistic and accept that we need to cut our cloth, a younger version of Whitts would cost a few million, so cover for Pinto.

It''s pretty obvious that Martin is at CB next year with Bennett and Bassong, with Olsson and Tofollo covering the left.

There''s not much money and any money from sales will need to be spent up to on new strikers.

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So the great clear out and freshening of the squad sees Martin , Whittaker and O''Neil all kept on , three players that needed shifting out , we are going to be stale next season and i predict many years of Champs football on the cards .Starting to look as if the money trouble stories are spot on , what this club needs more than anything else is new owners  the ones we have are well past their sell by dates .

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Why waste transfer funds on a new right back if he''s only going to be a reserve?  Pinto as first choice and Whittaker as back-up isn''t a completely terrible idea - assuming Pinto wants to stay.We''re not a Premier League team and the squad needs to be judged by Championship standards.  I''d rather see our cash ploughed into new strikers and creative, attacking midfielders.

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[quote user="CanaryOne"]So the great clear out and freshening of the squad sees Martin , Whittaker and O''Neil all kept on , three players that needed shifting out , we are going to be stale next season and i predict many years of Champs football on the cards .Starting to look as if the money trouble stories are spot on , what this club needs more than anything else is new owners  the ones we have are well past their sell by dates .[/quote]Go and put the bins out, there''s a good lad.

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Whittaker is perfectly decent at Champs level - he played well for most of the 14/15 season, a little light on pace but as back up we could do a lot worse than keep him. If Pinto and Martin are staying put he''s definitely good enough in reserve and without a transfer fee; there''s far more pressing roles to fill first.

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[quote user="Number 9"]So he hasn''t been on the bench or in the team for quite a while and suddenly he''s a world beater.  [/quote]
Nobody has said he''s a world beater, FFS.  The kindest thing I''ve seen said is that he would be a reasonable 2nd choice in the Championship.

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If we''re approaching next season with the same defence we had this then something has gone terribly wrong. If we resign Whits because Martin is one of our three first choice centre backs we''re in a lot of trouble.

Next season we should have Pinto with Martin as backup, ideally Klose with another CB and Bennett backing them up and then Olsson and Brady. Keeping Whittaker on would be a waste of wages.

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He''s not a good player in the Championship though is he?

Pace and positioning are atrocious and cost us goals / games.

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Whittaker is a decent full back at Champs level and certainly a decent back up to Pinto, assuming he stays. Why spend good money buying a back up full back?I''d rather we targeted two or three areas of real need* and strengthen here, rather than "spread our spending."*Centre back and striker for a start off and wide pace to replace Redmond?

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[quote user="Number 9"]He''s not a good player in the Championship though is he?

Pace and positioning are atrocious and cost us goals / games.[/quote]
He would be a decent standard backup in the Championship, and did well last season if you recall that far back.  I would keep him as 2nd choice RB.

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We shouldn''t bother giving him a new contract. No need. Have Pinto as first choice right back. Keep Martin as back-up and a more defensive option in that position. Put the money from Whitaker''s wages towards the wages of a decent, and younger centre back. We need to be prudent, we can''t afford a contract for a third choice right back who is proven to be not good enough for where we want to be going.

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[quote user="Katie Borkins"][quote user="Number 9"]He''s not a good player in the Championship though is he?

Pace and positioning are atrocious and cost us goals / games.[/quote]
He would be a decent standard backup in the Championship, and did well last season if you recall that far back.  I would keep him as 2nd choice RB.
[/quote]

But thats the thing- if we sign another centre back (and we need to even if we keep Klose) then Martin can be number two at right back and provide depth at centre half. If we let Whittaker go we won''t need to actually spend any money replacing him as we already have enough right backs.

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The reasonings from so many posters about Whitts i find  amazing, all of a sudden hes good enough as a champ RB?...sorry no..not even as cover. What is the aim for City this coming season? Promotion back to the Prem or comfortable mid table alongside Leeds, Wolves, Forest and our southern cousins?Its totally clear now that any idea of a major freshen up at this club has disappeared, we are going with the same old faces that we have gone with these past few seasons. Only, the Whitts of this world will no longer cut the mustard this time around, there are now far to many good and savvy teams in the Champs for City to be one of the 3 to go up. If Pinto got injured i could feel assured if Martin came in at RB, but Whittaker?..the likes of Newcastle, Villa, Brighton, Derby,  Hull or Wednesday, and  some other teams, would have a field day.Sorry but, retaining guys like Whittaker is a perfect recipe for duelling it out with Ipswich this coming season as to who will finish 8th or 9th or 10th.

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[quote user="Essjayess"]The reasonings from so many posters about Whitts i find  amazing, all of a sudden hes good enough as a champ RB?...sorry no..not even as cover. What is the aim for City this coming season? Promotion back to the Prem or comfortable mid table alongside Leeds, Wolves, Forest and our southern cousins?Its totally clear now that any idea of a major freshen up at this club has disappeared, we are going with the same old faces that we have gone with these past few seasons. Only, the Whitts of this world will no longer cut the mustard this time around, there are now far to many good and savvy teams in the Champs for City to be one of the 3 to go up. If Pinto got injured i could feel assured if Martin came in at RB, but Whittaker?..the likes of Newcastle, Villa, Brighton, Derby,  Hull or Wednesday, and  some other teams, would have a field day.Sorry but, retaining guys like Whittaker is a perfect recipe for duelling it out with Ipswich this coming season as to who will finish 8th or 9th or 10th.[/quote]
Would that be the same Steven Whittaker who made 48 appearances in our 2014-15 promotion season from the Championship including 25 games under Alex Neil?
Again I repeat, he is perfectly good enough as cover and we have bigger priority areas to fill.

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I have no problem with Whitts being a back up squad member, but it does sound as if AN''s wishful thinking of a younger dynamic squad has already been dealt a dose of realism by the Board. I''m more concerned what 20 goal a season strikers and quality CB we''re going to get/keep.

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