Ricky Martin

[hogesar 9,618]

Maybe he''d perform better if he wasn''t so occupied living la vida loca?

[daly 500]

The future is bleak when all and sundry get really excited that Whitts who played a handful of games last season has signed a new contract

[hogesar 9,618]

Ok Daly, humour me.

Name one person who said they were excited about Whitts contract extension.

One person.

Go on.

Out of "all and sundry" pick one person.

Just their username will do.

One poster.

No?

Well STFU then.

[norfolkbroadslim 223]

[quote user="hogesar"]Ok Daly, humour me.

Name one person who said they were excited about Whitts contract extension.

One person.

Go on.

Out of "all and sundry" pick one person.

Just their username will do.

One poster.

No?

Well STFU then.[/quote]Herman[;)]

[danielsroundabout 9]

I don''t know enough about him to comment one way or the other but it does worry me when Bury Yellow states that he is Norwich through and through. The very words used frequently when Gunn and Adams were appointed and re-appointed. Now we are hearing the same words from those individuals who close their eyes to Russell Martin''s shortcomings as a CB and captain.

Desperately wanting a job is one thing, being capable of delivering is something entirely different.

[Van wink 2,994]

hogesar wrote:

Ok Daly, humour me. Name one person who said they were excited about Whitts contract extension. One person. Go on. Out of "all and sundry" pick one person. Just their username will do. One poster. No? Well STFU then.

Herman

Wink [;)]

😄

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,424]

Ricky Martin lived in Bury for a long time. Just saying.

[Iwans Big Toe 312]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]That''s an interesting point of view tootsie. If his influence in our relegation was greater than the manager and his coaches then I''m afraid that''s a pretty damning verdict of Alex Niel. When Alex came to our fans forum he didn''t seem the type to allow such a bad influence. Your picture paints a very dim view of the future buddy.[/quote]Which then brings us full circle back to the OP and if Martin isn''t actually having any influence at the club, as his per his remit, what is the point in employing the guy?

[Mr Apples 1,317]

FFS what next, are the cleaning staff effective and influential as per their remit?

Apples

[nutty nigel 7,513]

Indeed it does Tootsie. And the guy must have influence over a seasons results. Just like everyone at the club from the owners downwards. What I hoped to learn from this thread was why Ricky Martin appears to have had so much influence that posters single him out. These posters seem happy with the manager, his coaches and even the rest of the football board including those who identify and sign players. The only reasons I can find for Ricky Martin being singled out are that he "bleeds yellow and green", played for Wroxham and once upon a time lived in Bury. Are any of these things relevant to the role he has at the club? Is this the type of thought process you''d like to see from the new CE? :)

[Bury Yellow 2]

danielsroundabout wrote:

I don''t know enough about him to comment one way or the other but it does worry me when Bury Yellow states that he is Norwich through and through. The very words used frequently when Gunn and Adams were appointed and re-appointed. Now we are hearing the same words from those individuals who close their eyes to Russell Martin''s shortcomings as a CB and captain.

Desperately wanting a job is one thing, being capable of delivering is smooth

danielsroundabout Sorry mate but my attempt at irony has obviously fallen on stoney ground. Blast he say he even the iconic Nutty Nigel thinks I was serious. That can''t be serious.....can it?

[nutty nigel 7,513]

If you could read my mind Bury, what a tale my thoughts could tell....

[Bury Yellow 2]

Good afternoon Nutty. I would never attempt to read your mind thank you very much. Now then where''s that porn magazine..........

[Buh 0]

The lack of livin'' la vida lo a references in this thread is a goddam disgrace. Take a look at yourselves!

[hogesar 9,618]

[quote user="Buh"]The lack of livin'' la vida lo a references in this thread is a goddam disgrace. Take a look at yourselves![/quote]

Hey, I done one.

[Rock The Boat 1,326]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]If you could read my mind Bury, what a tale my thoughts could tell....[/quote]

This thread is a wonderful example of why you are my favourite poster, Nutty. Time and again posters chuck nonsence at you but you swat it back over the fence at twice the speed.

Now we never saw eye to eye on everything but that has never stopped me admiring how you handle nonsence in such an even-handed way. I would never have your patience Nutty. There are folks that seem to follow you around baiting you at every opportunity but you are tireless in your even handed responses. Not many posters say this to you Nutty but big respect to you, sir.

[Mr Apples 1,317]

Tbh I always preferred "She Bangs" and "Shake Your Bon-Bon".

Apples

[Iwans Big Toe 312]

[quote user="Mr Apples"]FFS what next, are the cleaning staff effective and influential as per their remit?

Apples[/quote]Apples, I would argue that having cleaning staff that are ineffective is only likely to result in a dusty trophy cabinet and a skid stained toilet pan. This has no more than an outside chance of influencing results on the pitch. ;)[quote user="nutty nigel"]Indeed it does Tootsie. And the guy must have influence over a seasons results. Just like everyone at the club from the owners downwards. What I hoped to learn from this thread was why Ricky Martin appears to have had so much influence that posters single him out. These posters seem happy with the manager, his coaches and even the rest of the football board including those who identify and sign players. The only reasons I can find for Ricky Martin being singled out are that he "bleeds yellow and green", played for Wroxham and once upon a time lived in Bury. Are any of these things relevant to the role he has at the club? Is this the type of thought process you''d like to see from the new CE? :)[/quote]Nige, none of the things that you mention, having yellow and green blood, playing for Wroxham or living in Bury, are in any way relevant to his role at the club. What is relevant is is he a good Director of Football (which is the more common name for the job he describes in the interview you helpfully provided a link to)? Which starts to get me thinking, why did the club choose to give him the title of "Technical Director" and not DoF? It kind of makes me think of Rupert Murdoch closing the News of the World and then a few months later publishing a totally "new" paper called the Sun on Sunday. Why not just give him the title of DoF? Is it because the vast majority of DoF''s in England end up being pretty

useless at their job? Or that they are generally seen by the manager as a hindrance more than a help? What of the last person who held the position of

DoF at Norwich? How did that end?

[Mr Apples 1,317]

IBT, what influence does Ricky Martin have on results on the pitch then?

Ps...We have a trophy cabinet?

Apples

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

[quote user="Iwans Big Toe"][quote user="Mr Apples"]FFS what next, are the cleaning staff effective and influential as per their remit?

Apples[/quote]Apples, I would argue that having cleaning staff that are ineffective is only likely to result in a dusty trophy cabinet and a skid stained toilet pan. This has no more than an outside chance of influencing results on the pitch. ;)[quote user="nutty nigel"]Indeed it does Tootsie. And the guy must have influence over a seasons results. Just like everyone at the club from the owners downwards. What I hoped to learn from this thread was why Ricky Martin appears to have had so much influence that posters single him out. These posters seem happy with the manager, his coaches and even the rest of the football board including those who identify and sign players. The only reasons I can find for Ricky Martin being singled out are that he "bleeds yellow and green", played for Wroxham and once upon a time lived in Bury. Are any of these things relevant to the role he has at the club? Is this the type of thought process you''d like to see from the new CE? :)[/quote]Nige, none of the things that you mention, having yellow and green blood, playing for Wroxham or living in Bury, are in any way relevant to his role at the club. What is relevant is is he a good Director of Football (which is the more common name for the job he describes in the interview you helpfully provided a link to)? Which starts to get me thinking, why did the club choose to give him the title of "Technical Director" and not DoF? It kind of makes me think of Rupert Murdoch closing the News of the World and then a few months later publishing a totally "new" paper called the Sun on Sunday. Why not just give him the title of DoF? Is it because the vast majority of DoF''s in England end up being pretty

useless at their job? Or that they are generally seen by the manager as a hindrance more than a help? What of the last person who held the position of

DoF at Norwich? How did that end?

[/quote]I may be wrong but as far as I know we have never had a director of football in the way that job is generally understood - ie someone who is a director and has pretty much total control over the football side of the business, including deciding on transfer targets and style of play, so that the "manager" is essentially relegated to the position of head coach. Certainly the job Martin describes in that interview is nowhere near being that of a director of football.

[norfolkbroadslim 223]

There was some bloke called Joe Royle who came here a couple of years back to do some job, but he flecked off to Merseyside almost as quickly as he came. [:^)]

[Iwans Big Toe 312]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Iwans Big Toe"][quote user="Mr Apples"]FFS what next, are the cleaning staff effective and influential as per their remit?

Apples[/quote]Apples, I would argue that having cleaning staff that are ineffective is only likely to result in a dusty trophy cabinet and a skid stained toilet pan. This has no more than an outside chance of influencing results on the pitch. ;)[quote user="nutty nigel"]Indeed it does Tootsie. And the guy must have influence over a seasons results. Just like everyone at the club from the owners downwards. What I hoped to learn from this thread was why Ricky Martin appears to have had so much influence that posters single him out. These posters seem happy with the manager, his coaches and even the rest of the football board including those who identify and sign players. The only reasons I can find for Ricky Martin being singled out are that he "bleeds yellow and green", played for Wroxham and once upon a time lived in Bury. Are any of these things relevant to the role he has at the club? Is this the type of thought process you''d like to see from the new CE? :)[/quote]Nige, none of the things that you mention, having yellow and green blood, playing for Wroxham or living in Bury, are in any way relevant to his role at the club. What is relevant is is he a good Director of Football (which is the more common name for the job he describes in the interview you helpfully provided a link to)? Which starts to get me thinking, why did the club choose to give him the title of "Technical Director" and not DoF? It kind of makes me think of Rupert Murdoch closing the News of the World and then a few months later publishing a totally "new" paper called the Sun on Sunday. Why not just give him the title of DoF? Is it because the vast majority of DoF''s in England end up being pretty

useless at their job? Or that they are generally seen by the manager as a hindrance more than a help? What of the last person who held the position of

DoF at Norwich? How did that end?

[/quote]I may be wrong but as far as I know we have never had a director of football in the way that job is generally understood - ie someone who is a director and has pretty much total control over the football side of the business, including deciding on transfer targets and style of play, so that the "manager" is essentially relegated to the position of head coach. Certainly the job Martin describes in that interview is nowhere near being that of a director of football.[/quote]A cut and paste from a well known website that is essentially an ex-City player and staff wiki:"Former Northern

Ireland manager Bryan Hamilton was appointed Director of Football

on June 12th 1998 in a management partnership with Bruce Rioch. Bruce took responsibility for day-to-day affairs. Bryan

was responsible for defining the club''s footballing vision, the

long term development of players and football coaching throughout

the club."I see similarities between Ricky and Hammy''s roles. Watch the interview, Ricky himself describes the job as a role working alongside the manager, being responsible for football development and having an input at all levels from youth team to senior players.

[Mr Apples 1,317]

I suppose since it''s the close season and Russell Martin can''t be blamed for anything it''s only natural to find a non-playing scapegoat.

Enrique Martin Morales out!

Apples

[Peanuts 150]

I had thought that at Norwich the ''football board'' takes on a lot of the responsibility for things a DoF might do at other clubs, so Martin is part of that but I don''t see his role as equivalent to that of a DoF.

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

[quote user="Iwans Big Toe"][quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Iwans Big Toe"][quote user="Mr Apples"]FFS what next, are the cleaning staff effective and influential as per their remit?

Apples[/quote]Apples, I would argue that having cleaning staff that are ineffective is only likely to result in a dusty trophy cabinet and a skid stained toilet pan. This has no more than an outside chance of influencing results on the pitch. ;)[quote user="nutty nigel"]Indeed it does Tootsie. And the guy must have influence over a seasons results. Just like everyone at the club from the owners downwards. What I hoped to learn from this thread was why Ricky Martin appears to have had so much influence that posters single him out. These posters seem happy with the manager, his coaches and even the rest of the football board including those who identify and sign players. The only reasons I can find for Ricky Martin being singled out are that he "bleeds yellow and green", played for Wroxham and once upon a time lived in Bury. Are any of these things relevant to the role he has at the club? Is this the type of thought process you''d like to see from the new CE? :)[/quote]Nige, none of the things that you mention, having yellow and green blood, playing for Wroxham or living in Bury, are in any way relevant to his role at the club. What is relevant is is he a good Director of Football (which is the more common name for the job he describes in the interview you helpfully provided a link to)? Which starts to get me thinking, why did the club choose to give him the title of "Technical Director" and not DoF? It kind of makes me think of Rupert Murdoch closing the News of the World and then a few months later publishing a totally "new" paper called the Sun on Sunday. Why not just give him the title of DoF? Is it because the vast majority of DoF''s in England end up being pretty

useless at their job? Or that they are generally seen by the manager as a hindrance more than a help? What of the last person who held the position of

DoF at Norwich? How did that end?

[/quote]I may be wrong but as far as I know we have never had a director of football in the way that job is generally understood - ie someone who is a director and has pretty much total control over the football side of the business, including deciding on transfer targets and style of play, so that the "manager" is essentially relegated to the position of head coach. Certainly the job Martin describes in that interview is nowhere near being that of a director of football.[/quote]A cut and paste from a well known website that is essentially an ex-City player and staff wiki:"Former Northern

Ireland manager Bryan Hamilton was appointed Director of Football

on June 12th 1998 in a management partnership with Bruce Rioch. Bruce took responsibility for day-to-day affairs. Bryan

was responsible for defining the club''s footballing vision, the

long term development of players and football coaching throughout

the club."I see similarities between Ricky and Hammy''s roles. Watch the interview, Ricky himself describes the job as a role working alongside the manager, being responsible for football development and having an input at all levels from youth team to senior players.

[/quote]Thanks. I have forgotten (or tried to forget...) about that ill-starred "partnership". In that case, although he was never a director, Hamilton''s role does sound like getting towards - only getting towards - a proper director of football.As to how it worked in practice I don''t know. I suspect Rioch (no shrinking violet) didn''t allow Hamilton as much overall influence as was indicated by the job description. But in any event I think you are way overstating it to see any similarities between Hamilton''s job description and what Martin does, which sounds pretty much like a dogsbody helping out here and there but being nowhere near the powerful figure you imagine.You think Alex Neil is subordinate to Martin in the way Rioch was suppsoed to be subordinate to Hamilton? I don''t think so for a moment.

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,219]

There are distinctions between the European understanding of certain football roles and the way they have been interpreted or characterised in UK football.

I prefer the European terms for auxiliary roles as they as are more clearly accepted and defined operationally.

Norwich have used Technical Director in a simplified sense, meaning an essentially back room role that incorporates ancillary jobs that do not directly relate to the football, but have an impact on it and require ongoing managing. This can include administration of facilities, medical, sport science, education, Academy pathways, pastoral-social and any work that can (and should) be delegated away from Manager and football strategy staff. Clearly competent individuals have the potential to expand into active football-related matters, though the role is predominantly administrative and designed to remove paperwork and auxiliary daily issues from the manager.

The role should not be confused with the Sporting Director who typically oversees the playing philosophy and ensures that similar approaches are employed from early years through to first team. The role can (and should) extend to a role as part of transfer strategy ensuring that new recruits also fit the template. This a role of fundamental importance which should be a thread that runs through the entire club and draw in finance, Academy, Investors and Head Coaches.

The CEO figure in Europe -who might unhelpfully also sometimes be known as Technical Director, Chief Administrator( Amministratore Delegato vid Milan) or some of the senior Directorial roles seen at clubs such as Bayern (Vid Rummenigge)- typically deals with the negotiations of transfers, contracts and club-to-club and club-to-league machinations. Such a figure is also expected to have an over-arching view of other matters, but not in an omniscient sense, as the other roles have clearly defined and respected pathways of their own.

The Head Coach in Europe is often typically only expected to work with the players provided to him by ''the club'' and to train and select them according to game-to-game tactics, though quite possibly with a seam of football philosophy laid down to him. He is a motivator and organiser of the training and team, plus being an expendable lightning rod to account for the vagaries of luck, transitional cycles or -dare it be said- the strategic mis-management of the roles above (or the owners/investors above them).

The Director of Football role has - in the UK - typically been something of a mish-mash of the above roles, titles and operations. Its primary function in my view however has been worthwhile and indeed essential - given the parameters historically present in English football - namely a vacuum of knowledge, access and understanding of what goes on in the minds of footballers, in the changing rooms, on the training pitches and in the social lives of footballers from those owning or running football clubs above ex-players managers who were not long hence from the same stamp and boys club gravy train.

This lead to the dreaded certainties of "we let the Manager manage"...."the football side and the business side"......"we''re just here to provide funds for the manager".....which in turn allows such received wisdom gems as "only about 4 in 10 transfers succeed" and the firm establishment of Chinese walls to protect under-educated footballers who became highly paid managers, in turn running rings around the finances of £100 million pound businesses. That owners acceded to this only indicated how far removed they were and the cycle was reinforced.

The English "Directors of Football" have thus typically been a way for owners and directors of rich football clubs to tap into what was really going on with their assets and to help find an inner track and ear into a protected, closed world that discouraged involvement from above, leading to an inability of investors or owners to truly judge and understand the value for money they were receiving, the expectations they should realistically have or -most importantly - to asses the strategic, tactical, developmental and performance-related abilities of their own manager and players.

The fierce defence of the omniscient fiefdom of the manager in English football is predominantly to do with self-preservation and less to do with the efficient running, constructive analysis and optimisation of the football club itself.

The global, financial and strategic importance of football clubs has forced them into the professional arena off the pitch. The delegation of duties and the compartmentalisation of football-related roles away from a single, fragile, disposable, often Ill-educated individual is long overdue.

Parma

[nutty nigel 7,513]

Thanks Parma. That''s much how I saw it and how David McNally described it at the time.

 

IBT - You''ve redefined Ricky Martin''s role to what he said and from what David McNally said into something you believe it is. And even after this editing you haven''t given a reason why he should be held accountable and pay the price of our relegation. The things I mentioned about bleeding yellow and green, Wroxham and living in Bury still seem to be the only offerings by those who believe he is accountable. It''s rather like two old biddies gossiping over the fence whilst their washing dries...

 

Rocky, thanks for your kind words but how I am on here is how I am off here. I am just a humble bog cleaning bingo caller amongst a lot of high flying posters who know an awful lot more than me about playing, managing and running football clubs. All I have to offer is honesty but it seems that is enough to get some of the high flyers into a right old lather[;)]

 

[Mello Yello 2,282]

What does Stephan and Tom actually contribute to or bring to the club?

[norfolkngood 1,086]

The board are happy with people like Ricky martin ,nephew Tom & Ed balls they surround themselves with people who will not rock the boat

its a shame we do not have people with vast football knowledge around the board or club

someone with contacts who can pick up the phone to any club / manger

someone like ray wilkins he knows about coachng how the game should be played and youngsters etc

[Iwans Big Toe 312]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Thanks Parma. That''s much how I saw it and how David McNally described it at the time.

 

IBT - You''ve redefined Ricky Martin''s role to what he said and from what David McNally said into something you believe it is. And even after this editing you haven''t given a reason why he should be held accountable and pay the price of our relegation. The things I mentioned about bleeding yellow and green, Wroxham and living in Bury still seem to be the only offerings by those who believe he is accountable. It''s rather like two old biddies gossiping over the fence whilst their washing dries...

 

Rocky, thanks for your kind words but how I am on here is how I am off here. I am just a humble bog cleaning bingo caller amongst a lot of high flying posters who know an awful lot more than me about playing, managing and running football clubs. All I have to offer is honesty but it seems that is enough to get some of the high flyers into a right old lather[;)]

 

[/quote]I''ve been uming and ahing as to if to, but I find you exasperating, so I''ll bite. In my experience I find that people who have to point out to others how humble they are, are actually sanctimonious, arrogant and self-righteous know it alls. Your view of honesty basically seems to be that if you don''t know it it isn''t worth knowing, or if it doesn''t tie in with your world view it''s not the truth. That is not humility, so please don''t try and pass it off as such.I leave you with three quotes that I like about humility that maybe you could ponder."Humility is like underwear. Essential, but indecent if it shows." Helen Neilsen"False modesty can be worse than arrogance." David Mitchell"True humility is not thinking less of yourself, but thinking about yourself less." C S Lewis