Cash in hand and to come.

[BroadstairsR 2,138]

I know this was pretty well covered by our collective indignation at the time of the Secret Footballer utterances, however I have sensed that a little bit of an acceptance of a degree of that spiel is creeping in to our thinking and our postings.

What is the supposition of other posters of our current financial situation, assuming we can have no real insight until the next accounts are published?

We have cash at hand according to a reliable source. Although it was indicted that this was not considerable (I cannot recall the exact wording) the definition of this in the financial climate of today''s game could be anything.

£5- £10m would be my guess. Is anything more, or anything less assessable?

There will be more money to come from the Premier League pot for last season as I believe that this comes in instalments. There is also some merit money.

There will be £60m parachute money spread over two years. Is this halved?

The usual income from advanced ticket sales will soon be forthcoming.

Finally, there will be income from sales. A double -edged weapon, IMO, as it would likely leave us weaker on the field of play.

Many posters on here seem to have accepted that the sale of Nathan Redmond for £10m and more is necessary to fund a re-build. There is a decent amount of value in the rest of our squad as well.

However, Alex Neil states that we have no need to sell and that pockets would need to be deep to acquire Redmond.

How do others guess our financial situation at this moment in time?

Is there any insightful thinking to replace my guesswork?

This is important as I feel that this situation is fundamental to our success or otherwise next season, especially with some of the fees being paid by Championship clubs last season and the fact that the pattern that that league can be seen to be following is that of the Premier League with an elite sub-division of top clubs, with the rest more or less also rans.

Even McCarthy has just recorded his record signing for the Binners at ........ (wait for it) ........ £400, 000. Like I said that league is rapidly developing into the ''haves. and ''have nots.''

I will add that FFP is at last seemingly beginning to bite, to a certain extent, and this might inhibit the aspirations of some of the elite clubs. For example, Derby County face a transfer embargo and will likely have to sell to get things back in line. I believe there are others.

With parachutes assured we will not be concerned by this restriction.

[im spartacus canary 0]

I''ve heard that things are so bad that some players will actually work for ''cash in hand '' over the summer.

[AmericanNorwichFan 0]

I wouldn''t worry about it. We''re either debt free or close to it. McNally made sure of that. We have no need to sell, a strong squad that could do the job if we bought no one, I imagine Neil will be focused on fixing the scouting system he has complained about several times. And I can''t imagine there not being a good amount of money to spend.

[king canary 7,578]

I imagine we''ll spend around the same as we did last time we came down, ie around the same we make in fees. Last time we got about £20m for Snodgrass, Fer, Pilkington and Surman plus whatever we got in loan fees for RVW. So that was two first team players and a couple of squad players who left. I''d imagine if we can get £10m for Redmond and maybe a million or two for some of our lower level players (VOO, Bassong, Dorrans maybe?) then it will be reinvested. I just hope we take a quality over quantity approach this time.

[Indy 3,283]

I love this idea of no need to sell......relegation for a club like us is always about limiting risk, we will always look to make a few million profit to cover loss in income.

Wages are the key to having to sell.....

[lappinitup 629]

Unfortunately, since the Chartered Guild of Fag Packet Accountants (C.G.F.P.A) went into liquidation, there is no-one else around to make official guesstimations. Thankfully we have Purple Canary who has the ability to read between the lines and thereby scotch outlandish claims about how wealthy or poor we are and (depending on whether the poster is a happy clapper or a miserablist) can sit on the fence deflecting each wild claim. [;)]

The problem with relying on the published accounts are they cover the previous years trading and even then, they take several months before they are revealed meaning they are so out of date by the time we get them. And because of the time delay, people are still working on how much Delia actually put into the club and more importantly - how much Watling walleted.[um]

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,424]

Following on from this Broadstairs, its the parachute payment that I''m not sure about. I read somewhere that as we went straight back down we only get two years , so I don''t know how much we actually get. Anyone?

 

Ps I don''t think we are skint, but we will need to move players on in order to sign a few I''m sure.

[BroadstairsR 2,138]

"We have no need to sell, a strong squad that could do the job if we bought no one."

Hope that you are basically correct ACF, but considering the remnants of our strike-force, Jerome, Lafferty and RVW and a youngster or two we will need considerable investment to do a job in that department.

[AmericanNorwichFan 0]

I agree. We need a striker or two. We''ll see if the Wolf is on the prowl this season or not. Some say he''ll never come out of hibernation. (Wolves don''t hibernate do they?)

[Mello Yello 2,278]

The higher echelons of NCFC are a ''sealed unit''......We''ll never be privy to the exact state of the club finances, or for that matter - the true reasons of the departure of the previous Chairman and more recently the CEO. Both left within a space of 6 months.....Whether the club finances coupled with our relegation are part reasons for them leaving - is for anyone to second-guess.

I can perfectly understand why the Chairman''s replacement was appointed.......and, you don''t have to be Sherlock as to why Delia''s Nephew now sits on the board.....

Anyway, we''ll as the norm, will have to balance sales and purchases to assemble a squad to take on the challenge of the Championship.....We''ll get a clearer picture of how stable our finances actually are come August......I don''t actually smoke, so I don''t qualify to be a fag-packet accountant.....But hey, anyone can be a conspiracy theorist.....

[Katie Borkins 1]

I''ve heard things are so bad that some players will take you "in hand" for cash. The great Colney glory hole is open at twenty quid a pop.

Anyway, I am doing my bit for the club as I have been three times this week alone.

[spudgfsh 0]

There''s a difference between ''being in debt'' and being in ''financial trouble''. You can be in debt by a significant amount of money (personally, as a enterprise or as a nation) but if you can service that debt then you are not in financial trouble. if you have a mortgage then you''ll have a significant amount of debt (sometimes up to 4 time your income) but if you keep making the payments then your bank will be making money and will quite happily leave you alone.

Debt in and of itself is not a bad thing. The debt taken on to pay for stadium improvements will pay for itself if you can get the extra paying punters into matches. That was the mistake that McNally made was to pay off the debt and then aim for being completely externally debt free. If we take on debt to pay for fees, wages etc the we''ll turn into a QPR or a Fulham but that is not what should or would have happened.

I still contend that the debts which we had when going into league 1 was nothing compared to some had and we could have managed them better before the relegation and managed them well during the league 1 and championship seasons.

[Icecream Snow 761]

I thought McNally had said previously that the plan was to roughly break even, to avoid paying corporation tax.

[spudgfsh 0]

if we make a profit we will be paying corporation tax. we paid £2.5M in corporaration tax in 2013/14

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

[quote user="spudgfsh"]There''s a difference between ''being in debt'' and being in ''financial trouble''. You can be in debt by a significant amount of money (personally, as a enterprise or as a nation) but if you can service that debt then you are not in financial trouble. if you have a mortgage then you''ll have a significant amount of debt (sometimes up to 4 time your income) but if you keep making the payments then your bank will be making money and will quite happily leave you alone.

Debt in and of itself is not a bad thing. The debt taken on to pay for stadium improvements will pay for itself if you can get the extra paying punters into matches. That was the mistake that McNally made was to pay off the debt and then aim for being completely externally debt free. If we take on debt to pay for fees, wages etc the we''ll turn into a QPR or a Fulham but that is not what should or would have happened.

I still contend that the debts which we had when going into league 1 was nothing compared to some had and we could have managed them better before the relegation and managed them well during the league 1 and championship seasons.[/quote]One would have had to have been in the negotiations to be certain, but I would be amazed if any Norwich City director had any practical control over that. In effect what happened when we ended up in the third tier was that Axa, our main lender, agreed to push back the time when we had to repay our debt to them, but with the quid pro quo that if we got back to the Premier League and (supposedly) pots of money then we would have to bring forward the repayments - and in full.In other words, they didn''t want to being us down, but equally wanted out of football debt as soon as possible. Being externally debt-free was not necessarily an aim (it may have been or it may not have been ). It was - whether we liked it or not - forced on us".---*There used to be a notion floated here that have stayed in debt by paying off Axa with debt from somewhere else. I haven''t seen it recently.

[spudgfsh 0]

I do get that we were forced to pay back the banks when we were first promoted to the PL. The points I was trying to make was that debt wasn''t in and of itself is not a bad thing if you can service it and that the aim to remain debt free in all circumstances is very limiting on the club.

The only way we will ever get a stadium capacity of 35,000 would be through debt.

[ricardo 7,340]

[quote user="spudgfsh"] The only way we will ever get a stadium capacity of 35,000 would be through debt.[/quote]

And without Premier League income we could never service it.

[Indy 3,283]

I don''t think we''ll ever see a 35,000 stadium, the only way I can see it, is if we get new mega rich owners who move us out of the city centre and build a purpose built ground.

Never going to happen even if we go back up and stay there, we will always be spending every penny on wages and transfers trying to stay up!

[Mello Yello 2,278]

Question is......Do the heads of the club really want to expand the capacity of the stadium?.......

[im spartacus canary 0]

[quote user="Katie Borkins"]I''ve heard things are so bad that some players will take you "in hand" for cash. The great Colney glory hole is open at twenty quid a pop.

Anyway, I am doing my bit for the club as I have been three times this week alone.[/quote]

😂

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

[quote user="lappinitup"]Unfortunately, since the Chartered Guild of Fag Packet Accountants (C.G.F.P.A) went into liquidation, there is no-one else around to make official guesstimations. Thankfully we have Purple Canary who has the ability to read between the lines and thereby scotch outlandish claims about how wealthy or poor we are and (depending on whether the poster is a happy clapper or a miserablist) can sit on the fence deflecting each wild claim. [;)]The problem with relying on the published accounts are they cover the previous years trading and even then, they take several months before they are revealed meaning they are so out of date by the time we get them. And because of the time delay, people are still working on how much Delia actually put into the club and more importantly - how much Watling walleted.[um][/quote]That must make me a clapperabilist...[*-)]

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

[quote user="BroadstairsR"]I know this was pretty well covered by our collective indignation at the time of the Secret Footballer utterances, however I have sensed that a little bit of an acceptance of a degree of that spiel is creeping in to our thinking and our postings.

What is the supposition of other posters of our current financial situation, assuming we can have no real insight until the next accounts are published?

We have cash at hand according to a reliable source. Although it was indicted that this was not considerable (I cannot recall the exact wording) the definition of this in the financial climate of today''s game could be anything.

£5- £10m would be my guess. Is anything more, or anything less assessable?

There will be more money to come from the Premier League pot for last season as I believe that this comes in instalments. There is also some merit money.

There will be £60m parachute money spread over two years. Is this halved?

The usual income from advanced ticket sales will soon be forthcoming.

Finally, there will be income from sales. A double -edged weapon, IMO, as it would likely leave us weaker on the field of play.

Many posters on here seem to have accepted that the sale of Nathan Redmond for £10m and more is necessary to fund a re-build. There is a decent amount of value in the rest of our squad as well.

However, Alex Neil states that we have no need to sell and that pockets would need to be deep to acquire Redmond.

How do others guess our financial situation at this moment in time?

Is there any insightful thinking to replace my guesswork?

This is important as I feel that this situation is fundamental to our success or otherwise next season, especially with some of the fees being paid by Championship clubs last season and the fact that the pattern that that league can be seen to be following is that of the Premier League with an elite sub-division of top clubs, with the rest more or less also rans.

Even McCarthy has just recorded his record signing for the Binners at ........ (wait for it) ........ £400, 000. Like I said that league is rapidly developing into the ''haves. and ''have nots.''

I will add that FFP is at last seemingly beginning to bite, to a certain extent, and this might inhibit the aspirations of some of the elite clubs. For example, Derby County face a transfer embargo and will likely have to sell to get things back in line. I believe there are others.

With parachutes assured we will not be concerned by this restriction.[/quote]

At least three aspects to this. Regarding cash flow, you would need to have the up-to-date accounts and the dates and details of significant incomings and outgoings to have a clue as to whether we are facing a shortfall. Cash flow in football is weird. If, for example, we sell Brady this summer it will almost certainly be before we have bought (all of) him. By the same token, I assume Bournemouth have not yet paid us for every bit of Grabban.I doubt we overspent on transfer fees. A sizeable part of the money we splashed out in the winter came from what was left over from the summer. And we had perhaps £15m in sales to help us out.As for wages, i would suggest when the accounts come out a beeline is made to the figures for overall staff costs and for player wages, against those for 2013-14, our previous Premier League season. Since our income will have been roughly the same - perhaps a few million up - the comparison should be valid.If we did sharply increase our wages, and in such a way that it has a longer-term effect than just for last season (minimal or even no relegation clauses, for example), that would be interesting, but also instructive. Those posters who kept saying the board should take the risk of being much more ambitious, at the expense of prudence, would be able to see in black and white how following their advice had worked out in practice.

[daly 500]

I''m sure our Chairman can get some advice from his wife how to get around the accounts and make them appear good

[TCCANARY 263]

Is she an accountant?

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="BroadstairsR"]I know this was pretty well covered by our collective indignation at the time of the Secret Footballer utterances, however I have sensed that a little bit of an acceptance of a degree of that spiel is creeping in to our thinking and our postings.

What is the supposition of other posters of our current financial situation, assuming we can have no real insight until the next accounts are published?

We have cash at hand according to a reliable source. Although it was indicted that this was not considerable (I cannot recall the exact wording) the definition of this in the financial climate of today''s game could be anything.

£5- £10m would be my guess. Is anything more, or anything less assessable?

There will be more money to come from the Premier League pot for last season as I believe that this comes in instalments. There is also some merit money.

There will be £60m parachute money spread over two years. Is this halved?

The usual income from advanced ticket sales will soon be forthcoming.

Finally, there will be income from sales. A double -edged weapon, IMO, as it would likely leave us weaker on the field of play.

Many posters on here seem to have accepted that the sale of Nathan Redmond for £10m and more is necessary to fund a re-build. There is a decent amount of value in the rest of our squad as well.

However, Alex Neil states that we have no need to sell and that pockets would need to be deep to acquire Redmond.

How do others guess our financial situation at this moment in time?

Is there any insightful thinking to replace my guesswork?

This is important as I feel that this situation is fundamental to our success or otherwise next season, especially with some of the fees being paid by Championship clubs last season and the fact that the pattern that that league can be seen to be following is that of the Premier League with an elite sub-division of top clubs, with the rest more or less also rans.

Even McCarthy has just recorded his record signing for the Binners at ........ (wait for it) ........ £400, 000. Like I said that league is rapidly developing into the ''haves. and ''have nots.''

I will add that FFP is at last seemingly beginning to bite, to a certain extent, and this might inhibit the aspirations of some of the elite clubs. For example, Derby County face a transfer embargo and will likely have to sell to get things back in line. I believe there are others.

With parachutes assured we will not be concerned by this restriction.[/quote]

At least three aspects to this. Regarding cash flow, you would need to have the up-to-date accounts and the dates and details of significant incomings and outgoings to have a clue as to whether we are facing a shortfall. Cash flow in football is weird. If, for example, we sell Brady this summer it will almost certainly be before we have bought (all of) him. By the same token, I assume Bournemouth have not yet paid us for every bit of Grabban.I doubt we overspent on transfer fees. A sizeable part of the money we splashed out in the winter came from what was left over from the summer. And we had perhaps £15m in sales to help us out.As for wages, i would suggest when the accounts come out a beeline is made to the figures for overall staff costs and for player wages, against those for 2013-14, our previous Premier League season. Since our income will have been roughly the same - perhaps a few million up - the comparison should be valid.If we did sharply increase our wages, and in such a way that it has a longer-term effect than just for last season (minimal or even no relegation clauses, for example), that would be interesting, but also instructive. Those posters who kept saying the board should take the risk of being much more ambitious, at the expense of prudence, would be able to see in black and white how following their advice had worked out in practice.

[/quote]I posted the above without having seen Balls'' dismissive comments on the claims made by The Secret Footballer and, perhaps also, by Wyett::And as far as Balls is concerned, few jobs are more attractive than

the one available at Carrow Road – despite recent social media

speculation suggesting the club’s financial situation following

relegation was not as rosy as has been portrayed."I should say

while such things are being speculated about, that we’re bringing in a

headhunter to hire somebody for what is a really long-term, attractive

job – one of the best jobs in football – which is to be the chief

executive of a club that is financially strong, with no debt, stable

owners and a real sense of commitment to the community and fans,” said

Balls. "The reason this is a great job to come into is because we’re in a strong position.

“Clearly

coming out of the Premier League – is it a challenge financially? Of

course it is. But the parachute payments are a very important cushion to

that and we as a board always made sure we managed our finances in the

last year so that we’d be in a strong position, whatever the outcome to

the season. When I saw all that stuff, we didn’t say anything

publicly because we thought it didn’t really merit a proper response.

Total garbage.”

[It's Character Forming 1,160]

[quote user="Graham Paddons Beard"]

Following on from this Broadstairs, its the parachute payment that I''m not sure about. I read somewhere that as we went straight back down we only get two years , so I don''t know how much we actually get. Anyone?

Ps I don''t think we are skint, but we will need to move players on in order to sign a few I''m sure.

[/quote]

The thing about parachute payments was that when we went down in ''14 we had parachute payments which would have still been paying out next season, and having gone back up and back down, the parachute payment for next year is  still only given once, despite us having two relegations which both would have triggered it by themselves.  So the financial benefit of promotion from the playoff final was less for us than it would have been for Boro.

[......and Smith must score. 1,332]

[quote user="Graham Paddons Beard"]

Following on from this Broadstairs, its the parachute payment that I''m not sure about. I read somewhere that as we went straight back down we only get two years , so I don''t know how much we actually get. Anyone?......

[/quote]Yes, we only get two years parachute payments whereas Villa and Newcastle will get three. That''s because the transistional arrangements for the new megabucks TV deal next season mean that anyone promoted in 2015 and relegated in 2016, ie, us, misses out on the third year. We''ll still do OK as I think we''ll get £35.7m in the first year and £28.7m in the second. If we''re not yet promoted by then we''ll miss out on £21.6m in the third year and have to make do with the normal Championship payment which is I think £6.5m a year.To be fair if with the obscene £64.4m we''ll get compared to the pennies offered to most Championship outfits we can''t make a decent fist of getting promoted we deserve to be in the wilderness.