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King Klose

Bring Embokanee home

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We are planning for the future.

Madison, Thompson, McGrandles and others, including the very promising Ebou Adams.

We have the Academy.

What more can we do?

We need to get back up by whatever means.

"It''s the economy stupid."

Get back up there by any means, any expense.

Let the "future" take care of it''s self.

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I would sincerely hope that the board don''t share that view Broadstairs - "Let the "future" take care of itself".How effective has the Academy been?  Could it be improved?We have signed some young players over the last couple of years, are the right players, are they good enough?  Are they good enough for the first team this coming year and do they also have the potential to do well in the Premier League?For example, let''s say we get promoted next year with pretty much the same squad, we will then be in a position where we have players who have failed twice previously and younger players who are not good enough for the Premier League.  What do we then do?  We aren''t going to sign a whole new squad, even if the additional TV money allowed, we would also have some players who would be under contract who would not want to leave and who other clubs would not be interested and/or not prepared to match their wages.  We would then be in the same position where we have players earning god knows how many thousands of pounds a week either out on loan where we are paying part of the wages, left in the reserves, or rotting and not even getting a reserve game.  Do we want all that again?Even if we could sign a whole new squad, would that work?  Disrupting the whole team, the team spirit, the ideology, the playing style?  Yes, it did work to some extent for Watford, but that was certainly an exception rather than a rule.  We would have the expense of paying players who were good enough for the Championship, but not the Premier League, youngsters who aren''t good enough for the Premier League, and perhaps not even the Championship should we go down again.  An ever aging squad and a situation like an ever decreasing circle, where the players get older, the quality of players decreases because we no longer have the money to sign decent replacements, because we have poor owners and have been in the Championship for 3, 4, 5 years.For me we should have a long-term plan, a strategy, an ideology.  Personally I think we should be looking at signing players aged between 20/21 - 26/27.  Players who are good enough now for the Championship, but players who definitely have the potential to succeed in the Premier League and developing our squad, our strategy and playing style around such players as well as the better of our current players.  Youngsters and the Academy are also vitally important and we must look at how it can be more effective.  There also needs to be a clear plan and strategy for the Academy where the strategy and ideology of NCFC goes all the way down from the first team right down through the age divisions.  We need consistency in this respect right throughout the club.

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Of course we need to get back there Broadstairs, but hey let''s also have a strategy in place that will help us stay there. Now there''s an idea 😄

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So in the meantime we spend endless years in the Chumps planning, scheming, preparing and losing money.

The Binner model.

Let''s continue with our current youth investment, bust a gut to get back up and plan from a position of financial strength whilst we still possess the vestiges of a Premier League club.

Promotion is the be all and end all. Not fermenting away in the Championship forever looking towards what might be and becoming another ITFC.

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What on earth are you on about Broadstairs? Most people here are talking about investing in young, hungry players who can do a job at this level but might also be capable at the next one. How is this in anyway similar to Ipswich?

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Mixed feelings about Mbokani - he''s similar in style & play to Jerome and we don''t need the two of ''em in the Championship.I''d rather we spent the considerable amount of funds that would entail securing Mbokani on Bamford, now there''s little chance of landing McCormack.

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BroadstairsR - what exactly do you mean by that? Are you saying we should spend money we haven''t got in an all-or-bust attempt to get straight back up?

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I''m not sure he would be prolific even at Championship level , never struck me as an out and out goalscorer . Trouble is theres not a lot of striking talent around in the Champs at the moment Gray , Afobe and Rhodes have all recently moved and only McCormack really stands out .

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BroadstairsR wrote the following post at 26/05/2016 5:03 PM:

"So in the meantime we spend endless years in the Chumps planning, scheming, preparing and losing money.

The Binner model"

That''s a bit silly if you don''t mind me saying.

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BroadstairsR - what exactly do you mean by that? Are you saying we should spend money we haven''t got in an all-or-bust attempt to get straight back up?

Yes I suppose I am.

We have money, £30m parachutes for a starter,

I suppose I have a "hit or bust" mentality. No. 29 got me out of a hole last night at the local casino.

Festering in the Chumps whilst planning for a fresh assault strikes me as a no go, and something that will be more difficult as the loss making seasons pile up.

Hence my reference to ITFC. The arch-type failures who constantly live in the past because they have no obvious future.

Mbokani might be a bit expensive but I defy anybody on here to claim he will not be worth 20+ goals in the Chumps.

We have already provided for the future with the signings I have outlined and the Academy.

Let''s just get back up at all costs.

The rewards are massive.

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I''m with you Broadstairs.

We''ve just lost our premiership place because we didn''t do everything possible stay in the top tier and were too cautious. Now we are looking at another scenario where we need to gamble (a bit) to try and get back were we''ve just come from. We''ve made the mistake of being too slow and cautious with our spending last season. Let''s not make the same error again!

Throwing everything we have at this attempt might not work. That''s obvious. But if we go at it half heartedly and fail then in future seasons we will have a smaller and smaller chance until mid table obscurity beckons.

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I want us to invest some money too- however that doesn''t mean paying massive wages to 30 year old free agents. I don''t think anyone is saying we shouldn''t be making signings just that maybe the money we''d spend giving Mbokani a big juicy contract could be better spent.

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The house always wins buddy. You might have short term successes, but over the longer term it''s all downhill.

Much like putting ourselves into financial difficulty and risking the club in the long term for a possible short term gain.

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Mbokani is nearly 31 years old I believe. We need to be looking at younger strikers with a bit of hunger and future potential with a good goalscoring record. Possibly looking at the Champ or lower leagues. About time we started going for players with a good future ahead of them who can grow with us, instead of older players with little to prove or who are not wanted at their current clubs (see Naismith, Mulumbu, Jarvis)

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No,No,No. hardly a goal scoring xtrordinairGo for Bamford in the club going forward, better for the future.

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As I said the other day, I smile at the "young and hungry" mantra that keeps getting trotted out. Wtf does that mean? From what I can see posters who use it want us to buy young players who are better than those we have now, good enough to get us promoted and good enough to keep us in the PL, but that cost little. Good luck with that.

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He was one of our best last season. Love his power and determination. I would be thrilled if we could get him next season. But I wouldn''t play him as an out and out striker. He is designed to play off another quicker striker.

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"Much like putting ourselves into financial difficulty and risking the club in the long term for a possible short term gain."

That short term gain just happens to be £100m Mr.Ian.

I don''t see that we will necessarily put ourselves in financial difficulty either. We have money, we have the parachutes, we have full houses and Mb might not be that expensive now that he is thirty and seems to have benefited from a pay-off already.

I would see signing him would be a sign that the Club is determined to go all out for an immediate return.

How long is it now since we spent consecutive seasons in the Chumps? Grant, Roeder, Gunn losing money and all that and not that much fun whatever ''building for the future'' we will be embarking upon.

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[quote user="Thecanaryfan"]He was one of our best last season. Love his power and determination. I would be thrilled if we could get him next season. But I wouldn''t play him as an out and out striker. He is designed to play off another quicker striker.[/quote]I''m not saying it wouldn''t work, but how many teams these days play with a little and large pair up front?From memory, one team that stands out, where it was very effective, was Sunderland, with Quinn and Phillips.

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I''m not sure Broadstairs is advocating bankrupting the club, but I agree that if we follow the usual cautious little old Norwich "At least in the Champs we win games and lets be grateful if we get promoted" approach we will likely stagnate as between 95 and 04.

The best time to strike for PL football is now, this season and maybe next where we have players who have just had the experience of playing against the top teams, the parachute money, a PL attitude etc. We should regard ourselves as a PL team- we should only upgrade current players with those who are tangibly better. One, just one, signing kept Sunderland up (helped by our own implosion on the day against them), that could be the difference.

IMO we need MBo (as he is the best of what we had last season in my opinion) plus one other striker, possibly bamford as he is proven at MBoro at this level and could work well with MBo in a 4-4-2. And a new CB to go with Klose, assuming he stays. Keep Redmond to his contract, I''d rather have him for one season to help get us back and lose some transfer money than let him go now- he is probably our only game changer and will be a killer weapon in the Champs and help feed the two strikers.

Keep most of the rest unless we have the cash to buy tangibly better.

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@Tumbleweed

So what you think we need is Bamford and Mbokani? The same strike-force as last season? That didn''t really do very well?

Righto.

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For a start King Canary we are in the Championship this season - the division where Bamford and Jerome scored 20 goals last time they were there. Mbokani is better than both those players and could also quite easily score 20 goals. That''s more than enough striking power to get us back up.

I also take issue with your statement that Mbokani didn''t do very well last season. I actually thought he proved to be one big handful for a number of top flight defenses and IMO we would have done better had AN played in him in a settled attack rather than playing Jerome far too often.

I guess it comes down to your view of Mbokani and I happen to think he has much more to offer than we managed to get out of him last year.

Unfortunately I don''t think we''ll see him next year so we''ll never know how much of a beast he would be at Championship level.

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not many teams play with a big man upfront

if you look at defoe at sunderland he can cause more problems than a big target man through pace and movement

pace is what worries defenders what ever standard

they dont mind playing against people who hold the ball up thats easier than a striker who plays on your shoulder and turns and is gone with pace in a blink of a eye

Mbokani is to static and is not going to run past players and get behind and stretch defenders with pace

Mbokani would be good if we bombarded the box with crosses but we dont play that way

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I like Mbokani and think he was our best striker last season by quite a distance. I agree he should have started more. I''m just not that keen on reuniting a squad that got relegated.

I do agree he could be great in the Championship. I also however think our money could be better spent than on large wages for a striker who turns 31 this year who, while he played well last season, didn''t exactly set the world on fire.

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Need to get Bamford, show some belief in him, have him and Naismith up front, I think Championship defences would have more problems dealing with that, rather than his more obvious muscular style

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Thx Hairy, pretty much what I would have said.

I think if we binned everyone who struggled this season we would have no-one left (including no manager!!), possibly bar Klose (even his start was not universally regarded as positive) and Howson. It is really difficult to judge.

But I''d make two points:

(i) I''d much rather a known quantity; and

(ii) in my view MBo did show enough to suggest to me that he would be a real threat in the Champs.

I do agree that some real pace would be good there, probably why CJ will be retained again. What is happening with Loza though- looked sharp a couple of years back? Another exciting youth product who hasn''t been brought on well enough?

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[quote user="Tumbleweed"]Thx Hairy, pretty much what I would have said.

I think if we binned everyone who struggled this season we would have no-one left (including no manager!!), possibly bar Klose (even his start was not universally regarded as positive) and Howson. It is really difficult to judge.

But I''d make two points:

(i) I''d much rather a known quantity; and

(ii) in my view MBo did show enough to suggest to me that he would be a real threat in the Champs.

I do agree that some real pace would be good there, probably why CJ will be retained again. What is happening with Loza though- looked sharp a couple of years back? Another exciting youth product who hasn''t been brought on well enough?[/quote]
He''s has enough opportunities. Seems to score for fun in the kids leagues i.e U21''s...as soon as he gets a stab at proper league football at any level he struggles.

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