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pete

How can Alex Neil keep his job?

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10 games without a win one point nine defeats, this sort of run of results would see most managers losing their job. Then why is he still employed.

A simple reason is the ineptitude and fear shown by the Board of Norwich City. "Debt Free" has become a mantra of the Board after the brush with administration following the fall into Division 1, this was followed by resurrection by Paul Lambert. Three seasons in the Premier League then followed and financial security.

Because the Board were so averse now to invest Hughton was sacked too late to save us in 2014. It was apparent from early that season the football was dire and results poor and he should have gone at Xmas. But no until the debacle at home to WBA when the crowd made their feelings felt in no uncertain terms he was gone. Compensation for Hughton and his clowns was for the remaining year of their contracts.

Who do the Board appoint that would be the cheap option of Neil Adams. Who proved not to be up to the job and fell on his sword another financial bonus.

Alex Neil appointed with little experience but who galvanised the team into earning promotion and earned a new 3 year contract. Which means if he is sacked means compo for Alex and Frank M and salaries for a new manager and his backroom team.

No investment in the squad Summer 2015 because Premier League money not yet available, hence Brady the only notable recruit when it was obvious we needed defensive recruits and a goalscorer.

Almost £20m spent in January but £16m was already recouped from sales of Johnson, Hooper and Grabban. Our Board therefore invested about £10m for the entire season when a little more serious investment could see us safely looking forward to the riches another Premier League would reap.

But our Board is too timid too invest Directors happy to keep the kudos of their positions and any monies they can fleece from the club. And McNally his not miserly £1m salary.

The primary reason we are in this position lies in the Board whilst Queen Delia rules over her domain.

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And nothing will change as it will all pass onto the nephew.

Was there ever any serious intent to find investment? Not if it meant handing over control of the club and who in their right mind would invest tens of millions without having a controlling interest?

However this doesn''t stop us having a jolly good time in the football league. just look down the A140 to see the blissful happiness that awaits.

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Why is it always the managers fault ?   yesterday if the manager had said to his players "Go out and play slowly allowing them loads of space" Do you think they would have followed instructions?

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[quote user="Crafty Canary"]And nothing will change as it will all pass onto the nephew.

Was there ever any serious intent to find investment? Not if it meant handing over control of the club and who in their right mind would invest tens of millions without having a controlling interest?

However this doesn''t stop us having a jolly good time in the football league. just look down the A140 to see the blissful happiness that awaits.[/quote]Heres a question, not to you, but a general one.Say you owned Norwich City, a club you had loved and supported for many years, would you just flog it off to any old stranger?

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Unlike the Chris Hughton situation he is under almost no pressure from the crowd. Judging by the people where I sit in the River End, I have yet to hear any sustained booing after a match.The Man City game is probably a foregone conclusion so that takes us to early April and the Newcastle game. The result from that will probably be key for our season and AN''s future.

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Heres a question, not to you, but a general one.

Say you owned Norwich City, a club you had loved and supported for many years, would you just flog it off to any old stranger

Depends on the depth of that strangers pockets. Football is now a mega rich owners play thing.

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Well the board clearly aren''t going anywhere, and results don''t matter, so yeah let''s keep the manager too!

Are the board laughing at how dense some of the Norwich fans are? Are they sitting in Carrow Towers saying "christ, 1 point from 27 and so many want to keep the manager". "We could oversee the worst run of results in the history of this club, not only are they not calling for our heads, but quite a few still want to keep the manager" "We''ve hoodwinked them into believing al this stuff about nobody interested in investing, scared them into thinking that most external and all foreign investment ends in tears." Fooled them into being so sentimental towards the manager that even if we didn''t win again this season that they still wouldn''t call for his head and despite not having won for 20 games, to still have some convinced that Alex will miraculoisly turn it around and we''ll be winning every week in the Championship".

"When things started going wrong, we sewed little seeds, planted litted tidbits about how poor we are, that by just being in the Premier League we are massively overachieving and not only can we not compete with the likes of Bournemouth and Watford financially, we''d struggle to do much better than Lowestoft Town"

"We''ve got these foolish fans into such a state that we''ve even come out and blatantly told them that the reason we can''t compete is because our owners are some of the poorest in the whole football league, so they accept failure and defeats, they don''t call for a change of ownership because we have them scared about the perils of external investment and foreign ownership, they therefore accept poor results and failure on the footballing side". "We''ve even got some fans into such a state that they don''t question or blame either the manager or us".

?????

Of course not!

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[quote user="norfolkbroadslim"]Well the board clearly aren''t going anywhere, and results don''t matter, so yeah let''s keep the manager too!

Are the board laughing at how dense some of the Norwich fans are? Are they sitting in Carrow Towers saying "christ, 1 point from 27 and so many want to keep the manager". "We could oversee the worst run of results in the history of this club, not only are they not calling for our heads, but quite a few still want to keep the manager" "We''ve hoodwinked them into believing al this stuff about nobody interested in investing, scared them into thinking that most external and all foreign investment ends in tears." Fooled them into being so sentimental towards the manager that even if we didn''t win again this season that they still wouldn''t call for his head and despite not having won for 20 games, to still have some convinced that Alex will miraculoisly turn it around and we''ll be winning every week in the Championship".

"When things started going wrong, we sewed little seeds, planted litted tidbits about how poor we are, that by just being in the Premier League we are massively overachieving and not only can we not compete with the likes of Bournemouth and Watford financially, we''d struggle to do much better than Lowestoft Town"

"We''ve got these foolish fans into such a state that we''ve even come out and blatantly told them that the reason we can''t compete is because our owners are some of the poorest in the whole football league, so they accept failure and defeats, they don''t call for a change of ownership because we have them scared about the perils of external investment and foreign ownership, they therefore accept poor results and failure on the footballing side". "We''ve even got some fans into such a state that they don''t question or blame either the manager or us".

?????

Of course not![/quote]Perfect summary of the situation!!!!

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This is what was winding me up yesterday, OP makes a genuine point and people jump on and attack the poster. By all means, disagree and offer a valid counterargument but personal attacks offer nothing constructive.

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[quote user="BarclayWazza"]This is what was winding me up yesterday, OP makes a genuine point and people jump on and attack the poster. By all means, disagree and offer a valid counterargument but personal attacks offer nothing constructive.[/quote]Its the fact that every single thing Pete ever posts is whining miserablism. And he isn''t interested in debate, he just spunks his load of negativity here then vanishes. And isn''t seen again till there is something else to moan about.Its extremely boring and tedious now.

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I think norfolkbroadslim makes some very good points!

The vast majority of us Norwich City supporters seem to be passive acceptors; far too patient for our own good sometimes. The club know that hence Delia''s comments: "We have the best supporters in the land - even when we were in League One they came every week to fill the ground..."

Perhaps the board would do well to recognise that building goodwill is a two-way street...

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He will keep his job. We were relegated last August. If the argument is teams like Bournemouth have spent more than us, all that proves is the current ownership structure is fundamentally incompatible with PL status. That''s what we should be concerned about. But we''re little old Norwich, we''ll be competive in the champs, at least next season, let''s forget the lessons of the 1990s lost decade.

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And Alex will keep his job cos that''s what McNally said a couple of weeks ago. Relegated or not he will still be in charge. I am surprised that none of the anger is being aimed at the so called head of recruitment. Isn''t this the same guy who helped Burnley sign players only to be relegated. I for one would lime to see AN given a long time in the role to build his team. After all I dont think he has been given the freedom to do that. Relegation may well be the best thing that happens. Get rid of deadwood players. Bring some youth through. Revamp the coaching team including head of recruitment. Build the new Colney and attract the best we can.

I will always follow Norwich. They are my team and God willing I will still be here to enjoy them for many years to come through good and bad times. Yes we all want success but we are Norwich not Manu,Arsenal Tec.

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[quote user="Highland Canary"]He will keep his job. We were relegated last August. If the argument is teams like Bournemouth have spent more than us, all that proves is the current ownership structure is fundamentally incompatible with PL status. That''s what we should be concerned about. But we''re little old Norwich, we''ll be competive in the champs, at least next season, let''s forget the lessons of the 1990s lost decade.[/quote]Assuming, for the sake of argument, that is true, what is your solution to this problem? What different kind of ownership structure should we have? I have seen posters - who almost certainly don''t take such gambles with their own finances - advocate spending pots of money we don''t have. Plainly that cannot be what you mean.

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I think there are several factors here.

Yes, we''re now on our worst run of defeats since, what, 1946 or something ridiculous. And yet.. I still go in to games expecting us to get something. Obviously I also have the same fears and doubts of any other fan, but I still have some hope that we can start winning a few games. Yesterday was shite, yes, but Leicester and Chelsea were unlucky games for us, and really we should''ve got at least 2 points from them.

For me anyway, it still feels different to our time under Hughton. Our performances are inconsistent, but not relentlessly dour as they were then. I don''t believe that Alex Neil has lost the dressing room. Again, there''s huge inconsistency with the players'' performances, but they still seem to be working as a team and with the focus that suggests they believe a win is possible. It''s just that every time we have a decent performance something painfully unlucky happens (ridiculous Costa offside goal) that knocks us back.

Also, Alex still has credit with the board and fans for delivering us an instant promotion and memorable Wembley victory. We all knew it would be a big step up for him in the EPL, but if you go with the view that this is a learning experience for him, then you have to give him a certain amount of leeway. I think the board feel that if we truly want to establish ourselves as a long term top-flight side then we can''t keep chopping and changing our manager whenever things turn sour. They''re going to stick with him for the long haul, so I suggest we do too.

Finally, about the board, if you truly want to highlight their inadequacies when it comes to relegation, you should also accept that they''ve delivered us multiple promotions in the last decade. And since when does having a rich owner equate to huge playing budgets? Ipswich have a rich owner. Villa have a rich owner, and they couldn''t care less. Ideally what you want is a rich owner that deeply loves the club. Well, we have a relatively poor owner that loves the club, and I''d choose that over the former any day.

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[quote user="norfolkbroadslim"]Well the board clearly aren''t going anywhere, and results don''t matter, so yeah let''s keep the manager too!

Are the board laughing at how dense some of the Norwich fans are? Are they sitting in Carrow Towers saying "christ, 1 point from 27 and so many want to keep the manager". "We could oversee the worst run of results in the history of this club, not only are they not calling for our heads, but quite a few still want to keep the manager" "We''ve hoodwinked them into believing al this stuff about nobody interested in investing, scared them into thinking that most external and all foreign investment ends in tears." Fooled them into being so sentimental towards the manager that even if we didn''t win again this season that they still wouldn''t call for his head and despite not having won for 20 games, to still have some convinced that Alex will miraculoisly turn it around and we''ll be winning every week in the Championship".

"When things started going wrong, we sewed little seeds, planted litted tidbits about how poor we are, that by just being in the Premier League we are massively overachieving and not only can we not compete with the likes of Bournemouth and Watford financially, we''d struggle to do much better than Lowestoft Town"

"We''ve got these foolish fans into such a state that we''ve even come out and blatantly told them that the reason we can''t compete is because our owners are some of the poorest in the whole football league, so they accept failure and defeats, they don''t call for a change of ownership because we have them scared about the perils of external investment and foreign ownership, they therefore accept poor results and failure on the footballing side". "We''ve even got some fans into such a state that they don''t question or blame either the manager or us".

?????

Of course not![/quote]
Taking away the hyperbole that''s not a completely unreasonable view. If you listen to that recent podcast interview with McNally he was clearly trying to lower expectations - talk of us not being a benefactor club, we can only spend what we earn, owners can''t just find extra money etc.
It''s fair to compare us to the teams we came up with and I think both have spent more than us on transfers and likely wages, with predictable results. If we''re not going to spend the money to attract quality players then we''re going to need a lot of luck to continue in the premier league, whether this season or next.

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people are criticising the OP for questioning the position of a manager who has overseen 9 defeats and 1 draw from the last 10 games?!?

.

Any manager in any league in the world with a record like that warrants scrutiny, there is absolutely to reason as to why Alex Neil should be exempt from that.

.

If the board of directors are doing their job correctly ,they should be debating as to whether there is somebody out there that could come in NOW and give us a better chance of staying up instead of making statements like "we''re sticking with him whatever"...

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"]Assuming, for the sake of argument, that is true, what is your solution to this problem? What different kind of ownership structure should we have? I have seen posters - who almost certainly don''t take such gambles with their own finances - advocate spending pots of money we don''t have. Plainly that cannot be what you mean. [/quote]
We spend what we can, cross our fingers, and hope we get lucky but accept that we will be favourites for relegation. Then next year we can spend a bit more, cross our fingers again and hope for a bit more luck. And the year after that, etc.
I expect McNally would make it sound more sophisticated than that, but that appears to have been the plan.

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[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"]people are criticising the OP for questioning the position of a manager who has overseen 9 defeats and 1 draw from the last 10 games?!?

.

Any manager in any league in the world with a record like that warrants scrutiny, there is absolutely to reason as to why Alex Neil should be exempt from that.

.

If the board of directors are doing their job correctly ,they should be debating as to whether there is somebody out there that could come in NOW and give us a better chance of staying up instead of making statements like "we''re sticking with him whatever"...
[/quote]In football a board of directors saying publicly they are sticking by the manager is often a sign they are privately thinking of doing the exact opposite...

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[quote user="Peanuts"][quote user="PurpleCanary"]Assuming, for the sake of argument, that is true, what is your solution to this problem? What different kind of ownership structure should we have? I have seen posters - who almost certainly don''t take such gambles with their own finances - advocate spending pots of money we don''t have. Plainly that cannot be what you mean. [/quote]
We spend what we can, cross our fingers, and hope we get lucky but accept that we will be favourites for relegation. Then next year we can spend a bit more, cross our fingers again and hope for a bit more luck. And the year after that, etc.
I expect McNally would make it sound more sophisticated than that, but that appears to have been the plan.
[/quote]I am not clear from your post whether you agree with that as a plan or are saying there is a different and better strategy we should be following.

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"]I am not clear from your post whether you agree with that as a plan or are saying there is a different and better strategy we should be following.[/quote]
I think it''s a realistic plan given our circumstances. Promoted clubs either spend big and roll the dice on establishing themselves in the PL, or they take their chances and hope to ''out value'' at least 3 other teams. Barring a big injection of cash, we''re obviously in the latter camp.

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[quote user="Peanuts"][quote user="PurpleCanary"]I am not clear from your post whether you agree with that as a plan or are saying there is a different and better strategy we should be following.[/quote]
I think it''s a realistic plan given our circumstances. Promoted clubs either spend big and roll the dice on establishing themselves in the PL, or they take their chances and hope to ''out value'' at least 3 other teams. Barring a big injection of cash, we''re obviously in the latter camp.
[/quote]Thanks.

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]So the way forward is to sack the manager and get into debt?[/quote]

This obsession with debt continues. It''s gone weve moved on. Let it go. We will not return to that situation.

Maybe we will have a club dinner soon, commemorating it.

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At any other club maybe. But not Norwich. The board couldn''t be that nasty. Tell the world AN is safe then sack him. That would take balls and we only have Ed.

Won''t happen

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