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Paul Spector

Kyle Lafferty

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Stand down folks, the great one Hogesar has spoken - apparently it''s pointless to discuss (on a Norwich City forum) the notion that it might be worth trying one of our other strikers ahead of one that isn''t scoring.

Let''s stick with Jerome then, keep doing what we''re doing, and enjoy relegation.

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That''s weird, I thought I had discussed it in the previous posts.
Of course, because it doesn''t agree with your completely flawed logic of "Well no-one could do worse" (the flawed logic being due to the fact that someone could always do worse), you decide it doesn''t count.

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And what basis, assuming you have watched Kyle''s contribution to Norwich City, are you saying he could be the answer? Other than the old "Well he couldn''t do no worse, could he"? Any manager that picks a player on that basis really is scraping the barrel.Kyle Lafferty is a dinosaur, he is an old school big striker that people used to like about ten years ago. He will not work hard enough, or possesses the attributes, to play as a single striker, and if even if played as a pair, I doubt you''d see him leave the opposition''s penalty area. Which is great if you have a powerful midfield and you are dominating games, but we''re not.

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I fully accept that he might be even worse than Jerome, but without trying we will never know. I would also agree that on paper Jerome is a better all round striker, however CJ is so bereft of confidence at the moment that he''s not playing to his full potential. The confident scoring CJ of 12 months ago is a markedly different figure to the man who has been leading the line in recent weeks.

Confidence can be such a huge factor for a striker. There are umpteen examples of players that have burst onto the scene, full of confidence, scored goals and faded away to have average careers. The simple fact is we need to score goals if we want to stay up, and MAYBE Lafferty hasn''t been tarnished with the confidence draining performances of late. At the very least he is someone with a point to prove, even if it is just to prove AN wrong.

And Morty - just to clarify, I don''t think Kyle Lafferty is the answer, a brilliant striker, or should even be starting for Norwich City. I agree that he is an old fashioned player, but the same could have been said about Grant Holt a few years ago. I do however, think that KL would be exactly the sort of player I would want on my bench if we need a goal with 20 minutes to go - you know he would put himself about, rough the defenders up and generally make a nuisance of himself. And as shown for N.I. if the ball falls to him in the box, he knows which direction the goal is in.

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[quote user="Jim Moriarty"]I fully accept that he might be even worse than Jerome, but without trying we will never know. I would also agree that on paper Jerome is a better all round striker, however CJ is so bereft of confidence at the moment that he''s not playing to his full potential. The confident scoring CJ of 12 months ago is a markedly different figure to the man who has been leading the line in recent weeks.

Confidence can be such a huge factor for a striker. There are umpteen examples of players that have burst onto the scene, full of confidence, scored goals and faded away to have average careers. The simple fact is we need to score goals if we want to stay up, and MAYBE Lafferty hasn''t been tarnished with the confidence draining performances of late. At the very least he is someone with a point to prove, even if it is just to prove AN wrong.

And Morty - just to clarify, I don''t think Kyle Lafferty is the answer, a brilliant striker, or should even be starting for Norwich City. I agree that he is an old fashioned player, but the same could have been said about Grant Holt a few years ago. I do however, think that KL would be exactly the sort of player I would want on my bench if we need a goal with 20 minutes to go - you know he would put himself about, rough the defenders up and generally make a nuisance of himself. And as shown for N.I. if the ball falls to him in the box, he knows which direction the goal is in.[/quote]I would much rather have Mbokani or Bamford on the bench as an option personally.How do you know CJ is low on confidence, other than the fact that he isn''t scoring as much as we would like, he doesn''t look underconfident. And comparing his scoring ratio this season with last seasons, in the Championship isn''t really an accurate comparison.Lafferty is a liability, especially at this level.

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My assertion that CJ is short of confidence is based on the way he has seemingly started "snatching" at chances in recent weeks. You can see he is desperate for a goal, which his hard work does deserve, but it just doesn''t seem to be happening for him.

I think it is fair to assume that the entire team is short of confidence at the moment - who wouldn''t be, when you''ve taken just 1 point from the last 9 games. The body language when we concede goals screams that of a lack of confidence.

On a different note, i''d be interested to know what your assertion that Lafferty is a liability "especially at this level" is based upon? As far as i''m aware, he''s only played a handful of minutes at "this level" - so it is perhaps a little harsh to accuse him of that.

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[quote user="Jim Moriarty"]I fully accept that he might be even worse than Jerome, but without trying we will never know. .....[/quote]But he was tried. Last season. The end result was that he was sent out on loan, and he''s been on the market ever since. A market where not one club is willing to pay an acceptable fee for him. As far as we know, only Leeds has showed any interest. A mid table championship club.Yet apparently he''s the answer to our striking problems for a 9 game relegation scrap in probably the toughest league in the world - using the ''he can''t do any worse'' rationale?Sorry. I can''t agree.

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[quote user="Jim Moriarty"]

On a different note, i''d be interested to know what your assertion that Lafferty is a liability "especially at this level" is based upon? As far as i''m aware, he''s only played a handful of minutes at "this level" - so it is perhaps a little harsh to accuse him of that.[/quote]Maybe based on the fact that he didn''t exactly pull up any trees in the level below this level, and also that for the entire time he has been on the pitch in a NCFC shirt, has looked like a red card waiting to happen.But that''s just my opinion.

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[quote user="Jim Moriarty"]My assertion that CJ is short of confidence is based on the way he has seemingly started "snatching" at chances in recent weeks. You can see he is desperate for a goal, which his hard work does deserve, but it just doesn''t seem to be happening for him.

I think it is fair to assume that the entire team is short of confidence at the moment - who wouldn''t be, when you''ve taken just 1 point from the last 9 games. The body language when we concede goals screams that of a lack of confidence.

On a different note, i''d be interested to know what your assertion that Lafferty is a liability "especially at this level" is based upon? As far as i''m aware, he''s only played a handful of minutes at "this level" - so it is perhaps a little harsh to accuse him of that.[/quote]Cameron Jerome has never been a prolific striker, especially at Premiership level. And his chances in front of goal are fewer due to the tracking back and workrate he puts in, perhaps papering over the cracks of our slightly lightweight midfield.Whenever Kyle Lafferty came on, in the Championship I would "jokingly" say "Counting down to yellow card in 5.....4.....3....etc", he is a clumsy oaf.Sorry, there is absolutely nothing I have seen form him, either with my own eyes, or based on performances at previous clubs, that makes me think he would be worth a run in the team right now.

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[quote user="The ghost of Michael Theoklitos"][quote user="Jim Moriarty"]

On a different note, i''d be interested to know what your assertion that Lafferty is a liability "especially at this level" is based upon? As far as i''m aware, he''s only played a handful of minutes at "this level" - so it is perhaps a little harsh to accuse him of that.[/quote]Maybe based on the fact that he didn''t exactly pull up any trees in the level below this level, and also that for the entire time he has been on the pitch in a NCFC shirt, has looked like a red card waiting to happen.But that''s just my opinion.[/quote]

On what do you base your opinion that Lafferty didn''t pull up any trees at the level below this?

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[quote user="morty"][quote user="Jim Moriarty"]My assertion that CJ is short of confidence is based on the way he has seemingly started "snatching" at chances in recent weeks. You can see he is desperate for a goal, which his hard work does deserve, but it just doesn''t seem to be happening for him.

I think it is fair to assume that the entire team is short of confidence at the moment - who wouldn''t be, when you''ve taken just 1 point from the last 9 games. The body language when we concede goals screams that of a lack of confidence.

On a different note, i''d be interested to know what your assertion that Lafferty is a liability "especially at this level" is based upon? As far as i''m aware, he''s only played a handful of minutes at "this level" - so it is perhaps a little harsh to accuse him of that.[/quote]Cameron Jerome has never been a prolific striker, especially at Premiership level. And his chances in front of goal are fewer due to the tracking back and workrate he puts in, perhaps papering over the cracks of our slightly lightweight midfield.Whenever Kyle Lafferty came on, in the Championship I would "jokingly" say "Counting down to yellow card in 5.....4.....3....etc", he is a clumsy oaf.Sorry, there is absolutely nothing I have seen form him, either with my own eyes, or based on performances at previous clubs, that makes me think he would be worth a run in the team right now.

[/quote]

So, do you think it is ok to criticise and take the pee out of one of our own players yet it is not acceptable to criticise a manager who has returned 1 point from 27?

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[quote user="norfolkbroadslim"][quote user="The ghost of Michael Theoklitos"][quote user="Jim Moriarty"]

On a different note, i''d be interested to know what your assertion that Lafferty is a liability "especially at this level" is based upon? As far as i''m aware, he''s only played a handful of minutes at "this level" - so it is perhaps a little harsh to accuse him of that.[/quote]Maybe based on the fact that he didn''t exactly pull up any trees in the level below this level, and also that for the entire time he has been on the pitch in a NCFC shirt, has looked like a red card waiting to happen.But that''s just my opinion.[/quote]

On what do you base your opinion that Lafferty didn''t pull up any trees at the level below this?[/quote]By watching him with my own eyes. When he played at the start of last season, he wasn''t great. Good effort, but little quality. He ended up away on loan for the rest of the season. When he left, we started winning.Granted, he played most games as a winger rather than an out and out forward, but I''m not how anyone could conclude that a ''not very good winger in the Championship'' = a 15 goal a season premier League loan striker and the answer to all our goal problems.But we all look at the game differently I guess.

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As far as I see it the only positive attribute that KL has got is that he has the knack of putting ball in net when given the chance.Now, remind me, what is it we need?

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[quote user="The ghost of Michael Theoklitos"][quote user="norfolkbroadslim"][quote user="The ghost of Michael Theoklitos"][quote user="Jim Moriarty"]

On a different note, i''d be interested to know what your assertion that Lafferty is a liability "especially at this level" is based upon? As far as i''m aware, he''s only played a handful of minutes at "this level" - so it is perhaps a little harsh to accuse him of that.[/quote]Maybe based on the fact that he didn''t exactly pull up any trees in the level below this level, and also that for the entire time he has been on the pitch in a NCFC shirt, has looked like a red card waiting to happen.But that''s just my opinion.[/quote]

On what do you base your opinion that Lafferty didn''t pull up any trees at the level below this?[/quote]By watching him with my own eyes. When he played at the start of last season, he wasn''t great. Good effort, but little quality. He ended up away on loan for the rest of the season. When he left, we started winning.Granted, he played most games as a winger rather than an out and out forward, but I''m not how anyone could conclude that a ''not very good winger in the Championship'' = a 15 goal a season premier League loan striker and the answer to all our goal problems.But we all look at the game differently I guess.

[/quote]

Thank you for the reasoned response. I don''t think Lafferty is the answer to all our problems, but I also don''t think he is any less a 15 goal PL striker than Jerome is. I also think it is difficult to fairly judge him, based on him not being given a chance in his preferred position. Neil for whatever reasons doesn''t rate him, like him, doesn''t think he fits our team and when he has played has played him out of position.

I also think that some dismiss his goals, especially his international just to fit an agenda.

He won''t get a chance this season under Neil. But it should be remembered that he is actually ours, not on loan like Bamford and Mbok and should we go down and Neil leaves then another manager may give him a shot, may play him in his preferred position.

I make no secret of the fact that I have massive doubts about Neil and even if I didn''t, just because one manager doesn''t rate a player or think they suit their system (as Neil also did with Hooper) doesn''t mean they are no good, as we have seen many times previously.

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[quote user="Making Plans"]As far as I see it the only positive attribute that KL has got is that he has the knack of putting ball in net when given the chance.Now, remind me, what is it we need?[/quote]But that''s not true.League games started for NCFC - 11Substitute league games for NCFC - 8Goals - 1I don''t have stats on how many chances he missed in those 19 game. But relying on my memory, it''s ''more than zero''.This is just another example of the less a striker plays in the first team, the better they get. As soon as we go on a slump, everyone is of the opinion that the striker not playing is amazing and the saviour of the football team. It happens all the time!Luciano Becchio has done nothing since he left Norwich. Yet 2 years ago, you could replace Kyle Lafferty''s name for his in this thread, and it would be exactly the same.In fact, the only striker who has left in recent times and gone on to score goals has been Gary Hooper - the player most fans wanted shot of! Maybe Gary Hooper was the answer? How come people aren''t more critical of that transaction?

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The thing that always makes me chuckle about the Lafferty-ites is his cited spectacular scoring record at international level...vs. Finland, Leichtenstein, Georgia, San Marino, Faroe Islands, Hungary, Greece, Sweden and Poland...

 

If you''re holding out for a hero, it certainly isn''t going to be him.

 

Apples

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[quote user="norfolkbroadslim"][quote user="The ghost of Michael Theoklitos"][quote user="norfolkbroadslim"][quote user="The ghost of Michael Theoklitos"][quote user="Jim Moriarty"]

On a different note, i''d be interested to know what your assertion that Lafferty is a liability "especially at this level" is based upon? As far as i''m aware, he''s only played a handful of minutes at "this level" - so it is perhaps a little harsh to accuse him of that.[/quote]Maybe based on the fact that he didn''t exactly pull up any trees in the level below this level, and also that for the entire time he has been on the pitch in a NCFC shirt, has looked like a red card waiting to happen.But that''s just my opinion.[/quote]

On what do you base your opinion that Lafferty didn''t pull up any trees at the level below this?[/quote]By watching him with my own eyes. When he played at the start of last season, he wasn''t great. Good effort, but little quality. He ended up away on loan for the rest of the season. When he left, we started winning.Granted, he played most games as a winger rather than an out and out forward, but I''m not how anyone could conclude that a ''not very good winger in the Championship'' = a 15 goal a season premier League loan striker and the answer to all our goal problems.But we all look at the game differently I guess.

[/quote]

Thank you for the reasoned response. I don''t think Lafferty is the answer to all our problems, but I also don''t think he is any less a 15 goal PL striker than Jerome is. I also think it is difficult to fairly judge him, based on him not being given a chance in his preferred position. Neil for whatever reasons doesn''t rate him, like him, doesn''t think he fits our team and when he has played has played him out of position.

I also think that some dismiss his goals, especially his international just to fit an agenda.

He won''t get a chance this season under Neil. But it should be remembered that he is actually ours, not on loan like Bamford and Mbok and should we go down and Neil leaves then another manager may give him a shot, may play him in his preferred position.

I make no secret of the fact that I have massive doubts about Neil and even if I didn''t, just because one manager doesn''t rate a player or think they suit their system (as Neil also did with Hooper) doesn''t mean they are no good, as we have seen many times previously.[/quote]I agree that just because a manager doesn''t fancy you, doesn''t mean you''re a bad player. Paul Pogba is proof of that! And I agree about dismissing his international goal record. It does prove that he can score goals. Just not at the level we need right now.Agree to disagree ''n all that.....I think I''m in the minority that really rates Hooper. I think it''s a shame we sold him. While I think Bamford has a lot of potential, I think Hooper would be a better option right now.

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Just been checked laffertys international goal record. The teams he has scored against are worse than average (apart from Sweden). It would be lunacy to pick him, when we know we have better.

But no, he''s an international class striker, get a grip people I know we are struggling, But thinking Lafferty is the answer is ill informed.

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I also agree about Hooper, I rate him too and even though Neil was never going to play him as a lone striker even under those circumstances he should still have been retained and brought on as a sub when we needed a goal.

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[quote user="lowlyfendweller"]It would be lunacy to pick him, when we know we have better. [/quote]Mbokani has scored 4 in 22 (all comps) and Jerome has scored 3 in 29 this seasonLafferty on the other hand has scored 1 in 3 for the First Team, goals for Under 18, Under 21 whenever he''s played and 7 in his last 9 Internationals

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I also agree re Hooper, wanted us to keep him and play him. Another that seemed out of favour at times, but scored a few last time we were in PL and scored some important goals in the champs.

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[quote user="Mr Apples"]

That may be the case but what are his running stats like?

[/quote]It doesn''t matter one jot what his running stats are if he scores. I''m pretty sure that the NI Manager doesn''t keep picking him because he does a lot of running, or anything else.If anybody believes that Mbokani (last goal 23rd January) & Jerome (last goal December 19th) are going to get the goals to keep us up then then they need to wake up because they aren''t

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Yeah perhaps not lunacy. A bit strong I agree and recant. But I''m pretty sure the NI manager would probably choose CJ or Mbokani over Lafferty

I actually quite like Lafferty, but I''m fed up of him being the answer simply because he hadn''t played.

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[quote user="Making Plans"][quote user="lowlyfendweller"]It would be lunacy to pick him, when we know we have better. [/quote]Mbokani has scored 4 in 22 (all comps) and Jerome has scored 3 in 29 this seasonLafferty on the other hand has scored 1 in 3 for the First Team, goals for Under 18, Under 21 whenever he''s played and 7 in his last 9 Internationals[/quote]
[IMG]http://ci.memecdn.com/946/597946.jpg[/IMG]

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I suspect a few people in this thread are just being belligerent to keep an argument going, rather than concede that their opinion doesn''t follow any logic other than "Well he can''t do no worse, can he?"[:D]

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