Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
grefstad

Norwich physical state (or lack of)

Recommended Posts

There is an interesting discussion to be had about this. Unfortunately there is a group of posters who are much more interested in there personal squabbles tan actually talking about the football.

It''s just really fucking boring now and ruining this forum for people who actually want to talk about what goes on on the pitch.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
lappinitup,

Surely, in refence to your cartoon, the stats would show that 50% of the human race has no testicles and 50% has two (not allowing for eunuchs, Hitler, etc. and assuming a 50/50 split in the population between male and female).

Serious question, is the ''average'' consider a stat, I thought stats were the collection of data and that the interpretation of them was something else, could be wrong of course. The stats show I have been twice in my life!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Mr Jenkins"]Andy Hughes used to run around a lot.[/quote]

Case in point. He was a non-league standard player who got games in the championship because he made up for a lack of talent with work rate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="king canary"]There is an interesting discussion to be had about this. Unfortunately there is a group of posters who are much more interested in there personal squabbles tan actually talking about the football.

It''s just really fucking boring now and ruining this forum for people who actually want to talk about what goes on on the pitch.[/quote]
^^^This. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
We actually top stats for conceding late goals as well. Another thing that point towards lack of fitness (or concentration)...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A Load of Squit wrote the following post at 17/01/2016 8:20 AM:

We''ve also conceded most of our goals on a Saturday which probably points to the lack of playing on a Thursday.

If we play all our games on Thursdays we would probably be top of the League

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So the often so clueless Squit see no correlation whatsoever between our league-high of conceding late on, and our league-worst running and sprinting stats?

Head-in-the-sand is probable a very good metaphor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Mr Jenkins"]Or perhaps somebody takes himself too seriously.[/quote]

Head-in-the-sand.

Not paying attention to glaring, alarming stats is just disillusional.

It''s clear for nearly all to see.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="westcoastcanary"][quote user="king canary"]There is an interesting discussion to be had about this. Unfortunately there is a group of posters who are much more interested in there personal squabbles tan actually talking about the football.

It''s just really fucking boring now and ruining this forum for people who actually want to talk about what goes on on the pitch.[/quote]
^^^This. 
[/quote]

I would agree with that totally. And it goes on and on.  Grefstad has consistently argued with good points about this subject, over several threads, yet he is swamped with people trying to derail or at least devalue his posting, without taking the time to really undersatand the issues.  At least Hogesar has been reasonable this time, kudos to him for that, but the others are more interested in trying to drum up stuff in an attempt to derail. 

I''m not a lover of stats, but even without the workrate stats, it has been blatantly obvious in at least two matches recently that we have been lacking in work rate/alertness/positivity compared to our opponents.   If you are not at the peak of your game physically and mentally, yesterday shows what happens, whoever you are playing. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="grefstad"]So the often so clueless Squit see no correlation whatsoever between our league-high of conceding late on, and our league-worst running and sprinting stats?

Head-in-the-sand is probable a very good metaphor[/quote]

It''s not a metaphor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Where as I don''t agree that a lack of running or effort has held us back this season yesterday it was an issue. Too many players gave up and made it very easy for Bournemouth. Watching Odidja track back yesterday was appalling at times and left us so exposed down the right hand side. He was the same against Stoke and doesn''t seem to either care about or understand what to do defensively. Our recent wins have come from making it difficult to break us down and having the entire midfield working within a strong shape and wingers tucking in and covering back. This was really lacking in yesterday''s game.

Grefstad you mentioned that we concede late goals and you correlate that with lack of fitness. I think there are other factors to look at that can be more pertinent. For instance as a team that will lose more games than we win so will find ourselves chasing games more than many teams. This will leave us vulnerable to conceding late goals as we did against Newcastle, Palace, Stoke and Bournemouth. I love a good stat myself but they are often used to jump to conclusions when used in isolation. We will play plenty of games where we run less but still win or pick up points and it looks like you are just chasing a red herring in the hope of proving that you know more than everyone else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It''s pretty clear that a long trip to Stoke and playing most of the match with ten men, took a lot more out of our guys than anyone imagined.Hope they are not worked hard in training this week. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Dead Canary"]Where as I don''t agree that a lack of running or effort has held us back this season yesterday it was an issue.......

..... it looks like you are just chasing a red herring in the hope of proving that you know more than everyone else.[/quote]

So, you admit that you are not worried, or agree that Norwich have been held back this season, by the proven fact of being at the bottom of nearly all physical stats that matter in the Premier?

Lowest on tackling made, lowest on miles run per match, lowest on number of sprints made per match.

And you are saying this is not holding us back? You are ofcourse just as entitled to voive your opinion as I am, but in my book, overlooking such glaring stats is bordering on ignorance.

As for me pretending to know more than anyone else in this forum, no, I donĀ“t think I do.

There are some very intelligent and good posters in here.

But I do think I know more than a very large chunk of the posters in this forum. Without a doubt.

As for stats being used to jump to conclusions, yes, stats can often be misleading, or, the interpretation of them can be.

For instans, the running stats can be, and likely are, affected by ANĀ“s sudden change of style after the Newcastle mauling. Adopting a more withdrawn style on the pitch makes for less running, but this is not so critical, as long as we keep the intensity up.

Playing a deep, careful style is OK as long as the intensity is present. Withoyt intensity, it just gives a false impression if security. And we have fallen into that trap.

After 22 games, almost 2/3 of the season, the stats will often be statistically significant. And I believe they are, at this moment in time. And for us, they are pretty damning in many aspects of the game.

There is no coincidence we are were we are in the tables.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Last seasons table shows that the three relegated teams didn''t finish in the bottom three places in the stats table.

Team Shots pg DisciplinePossession%PassSuccess%AerialsWonRating
1Arsenal 16.168255.783.819.87.15
2Manchester City 17.677257.084.615.97.07
3Chelsea 14.873454.183.218.67.06
4Manchester United 13.564558.885.115.86.99
5Southampton 13.457351.979.716.96.91
6Liverpool 15.566354.482.8156.90
7Tottenham 13.979455.381.2166.89
8Stoke 13.282150.277.524.46.87
9Swansea 11.248550.782.114.46.86
10West Ham 12.964246.774.622.96.85
11Leicester 1250444.871.123.46.84
12Crystal Palace 11.663442.769.423.76.83
13Everton 12.766253.682.515.36.82
14Burnley 11.364244.070.425.16.79
15West Bromwich Albion 10.864344.975.017.26.77
16Queens Park Rangers 14.175346.370.821.76.77
17Hull 11.373645.676.521.96.75
18Sunderland 10.794246.276.115.36.75
19Newcastle United 12.365748.176.917.76.74
20Aston Villa 1170749.179.018.56.69
Panic over [:)]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Being bottom of any stats table doesn''t concern me. What concerns me is picking up enough points to stay out the of the bottom 3 and staying up. Running further or faster than someone doesn''t equate to points or victories it is one factor in a teams style of play. You are trying to push this simplistic idea as some sort of golden ticket and it isn''t. If it was that simple then all teams that come up would just run their guts out and stay up.

Even taking a very narrow sample and comparing us to Bournemouth who in terms of quality and ability were at a similar level to us upon promotion shows that this stat is meaningless in the grand scheme. If I remember correctly you started this idea because of them and even though they are top of running stats and us bottom they have a similar record to us. We''ve picked up some unexpected wins at big clubs as have they. We beat them at home scoring 3 and they beat us at home scoring 3. They have scored and conceded almost identical amounts of goals too. We both play a very different style to each other but so far both have been equally fruitful and even with a cursory glance at other teams shows that just running about more makes very little difference. It is about the entire approach to the game, the tactics, the subs made, the teams discipline and most importantly the quality of player at our disposal. Anyone can run around a lot, it is far more important to run effectively and at the right times, for me though it is even more important to play with intelligence.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Clearly, Dead Canary, it is not just about "running around". The sprinting stats show very few sprints made, and that says something about effort.

A sprint is a committed run, and when we have few of them, we can point to us not being decisive, commited, etc.

It seems you are trying to pick on the stats, just for the sake of it.

I have never said these stats is the entire explanation for why we are so poor. But it surely explains parts of it.

We are constantly outworked in games. I have seen these in most games this season, and for some games we have come away with the points, most of them not.

When we match other teams for work rate, we are good enough to pick up points in this league. When we donĀ“t, we are cannon fodder, because we donĀ“t have skilled enough players to do a Man C and pass our way out of trouble with everyone else running inbetween chasing the ball.

It is clearly evident in our defensive play. We donĀ“t move our feet quick enough, and we donĀ“t cover space well enough. The stats also show we have made the fewest tackles of any team, and are one of the teams which is easiest to be victims of dribbles past players.

For me, it is pretty damning, and a clear indicator of our problems.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
We are not ''poor'', yesterday was a bad game but it does not make us a poor team, your insistance on using stats to slag off the team is boring, last seasons table proves that they are miss-leading.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Last years stats means nothing, and besides, if you insist, the teams that went down were very low on those stats, if not in the last 3.

This years stats are mote important.

If you think it is boring, it is probably why such stats need to be told.

To lift the knowledge of people like Squit (and his like).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We are not a poor team-yesterday was a very poor performance but people very soon forget beating Man U, Villa, Southampton and good draws against Everton and Arsenal.

With the three/four new additions I feel we will survive.

We were one of the favourites for relegation for a reason and are right where we should be.

I think expectations are set too high by some-that is not me being negative it''s being realistic.

If we survive this season, which I think we will, then we will have more success at recruiting players in the summer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="grefstad"]Last years stats means nothing, and besides, if you insist, the teams that went down were very low on those stats, if not in the last 3.

This years stats are mote important.

If you think it is boring, it is probably why such stats need to be told.

To lift the knowledge of people like Squit (and his like).[/quote]Not heard of precedent then?Once again when shown that his god Opta is fallable Grefstad moves the goalposts to suit his agenda, every time you post some stats they get trashed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Our lower tally of KMs covered and sprints made yesterday is nothing to do with effort but the system we use. I''m sure if you check out our number of passes we attempted compared to Bournemouth it''ll be much higher than the home side, due to the fact we built our attack instead of counter quickly and press high. Also a reason behind why Redmond doesn''t try to take on full-backs much any longer.

Whether that''s the right system/tactics is another matter entirely.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
To my knowledge I have seen very few, if any, stats posted here before I did it recently. By all means, keep them coming...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Crabbycanary3"]and you will cherry pick which ones suit your agenda[/quote]

But ofcourse. You can get your sorry a$$ out of the chair and find stats that prove me wrong. If you can find them.

Then we can have a fruitful discussion for once.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...