Hughes is the best leader, but is he good enough?

[Robbo007 0]

Hughes has been one of the best captains for a while, imo, however i still don''t feel he has cemented his place in the team.

Leadership wise, he has been superb, geeing on the boys, saluting the crowd, (always the first one to salute the crowd win or lose), however, have his performances warranted a start?? IMO, no.

In the second half against hull, he was playing in front of the defence next to Saf, giving us a 6-2-2. He''s the best midfielder apart from safri at the club at the moment, but I don''t think he should get used to leading out the team yet. Safri should be the captain in my opinion

[DumbleDelia is Magic 0]

Sorry Robbo but I think you''ve got your logic arse about tit!  You start off by saying that Hughes is a great captain.... and then finish by saying you think Saf should get the captaincy!  A captain doesn''t have to be the best player on the pitch.  A captain has a specfic role to play and I think Hughsey does it superbly.  IMO he''s been good this season.  Sometimes he dips in and out of games and probably doesn''t get forward enough for my liking.  However, he''s tough in the tackle and is obviously good for the dressing room

[ZLF 335]

[quote]Hughes has been one of the best captains for a while, imo, however i still don''t feel he has cemented his place in the team. Leadership wise, he has been superb, geeing on the boys, saluting the crow...[/quote]

I dont think there is any competition here.   Since the first minute he appeared in a norwich shirt it is clear that he has a naural leadership ability that far outstrips any other norwich player.  The fact that he is not the best footballer is irrelevant for me. 

I agree that as far as a defensive midfielder is concerned Safri is streets ahead on every footballing count.  However Safri does not have that leadership side to him that Hughes does.

As a footballer Hughes still needs to convince me.  However there is no one better than him in the squad at the moment so he rightly plays.  Finding a partner for Safri remains the squads number 1 priority for me as I feel that hughes is really a safri substitute (his perfect role should be sitting at the bottom the diamond - which I am sure he will fill well when safs is rested for ramadan) rather than a partner.  

Alternatively we could go 4-2-3-1 (my old fave and being used to great success by charlton at the mo) as it needs two holding midfielders; hughes & safs deep,  Ashton as the lone striker, and hux, mcveigh and marney as the floating three in behind.  But as the diamond is working positively for us this year we must not change it now.

 

OTBC

[wiggles 0]

You  should compare Hughes with Gary Holt on this one. Holt was the worst player i have ever seen play for us and although Hughes has his flaws he gives the team so much more than that clown ever did. I think he has improved every game after a shocker against crewe and will be vital if we are going to achieve anything this season.

[DumbleDelia is Magic 0]

[quote]You should compare Hughes with Gary Holt on this one. Holt was the worst player i have ever seen play for us and although Hughes has his flaws he gives the team so much more than that clown ever did....[/quote]

I do sincely hope that was a joke Jonny?  "Holt was the worst player i have ever seen play for us"  How long have you been a Norwich fan??  For two years Holt was superb for us.  He was the midfield engine.  Yes, the step up to the premiership was too much for him.  However, Gary Holt wouldn''t be in the top (or in this case bottom) 50 worst players to appear for Norwich

[Tumbleweed 106]

If you think Holt was the worst player ever to play for us you can''t have seen many matches. Do you not remember the Hamilton era where his signings regulalrly fill up the Worst Ever Norwich XIs which from time to time get created?

Holt was actually a damn good player for us until he lost a bit of pace and then suffered as a result. Nigel stuck with him too long but it shouldn''t disguise his contribution before that happened.

[ZLF 335]

[quote]I do sincely hope that was a joke Jonny? "Holt was the worst player i have ever seen play for us" How long have you been a Norwich fan?? For two years Holt was superb for us. He was the midfield e...[/quote]

Spot on DD - Holt did a superb job at a crucial time and provided the midfield with a defensive approach and energy that had been missing for too long. 

At champs level he was a very good player but got found out at prem level - far from the first player to do so - there are far more than 50 worse players in citys history - probably more than 50 in the last decade.

OTBC

[LinkNR9 0]

To go back to the top of the thread, I don''t think that Hughes is the right person to be alongside Safri for the following reason.

Basically, he''s just about OK defensively and is very vocal on the pitch (although only the players could honestly say how much this motivates them). From an attacking sense, I think that he is very poor. He rarely drives forward with the ball at his feet, and his shooting is not good. As for his passing, he''s good at playing the ball sideways or backwards over 15 yards; otherwise he''s dreadful. It''s like watching Ray Wilkins in his prime! Hughes tried to imitate Saffs on Tuesday night with some 40-yard crossfield passes, which he over-hit and the ball went high over the heads of the players out on the wing. Hughes and Saffs are the same time of player - mainly a holding midfielder - and Safri is by far and away the better player. We need an attacking passer of a midfielder (such as Koumas) to partner Safri, but we don''t have one at the Club yet. We will be in big trouble if Safri gets injured, because we will have no creativity in midfield whatsoever. 

[Robbo007 0]

True DD, it probably came out wrong, to cut a long story short, I don''t think we should have a captain who is not certain of their starting place in the line-up

[Northern Canary 0]

THe only alternatives a i believe is Jarrett. You could argue Marney but hes more likely to be needed wide. Hughes is a lot better than jarrett and we definately need a leader so i think Hughes deserves his place

[FatMan Fat 0]

I put up a post after the Reading match that Hughes was a "ray of sunshine".

If we accept that he is a Gary Holt replacement then he is doing a decent enough job coupled to the fact that he appears the best captain since Malky.

Accordingly he is worth his place in the team and I believe he will become increasingly effective as he finds his best role for us.

[Yellow Rider 0]

The Hughes debate is pretty predictable with a wide spread of opinions. I love his relationship with the fans and as i have said before what he does at the end of each game takes some bottle (when the fans have been critical during the game). He is limited in ability going forward but I would love to see him score and see what that does for his confidence. As Link says we desperately need a creative and postive player going forward in midfield after Safri has won the ball. Hughes does not supply that.    

Jonny''s comment re Holt has been savaged but I would stick up for him (to some extent). I disagree that he was ''the worst Norwich player'' but I have always said that Holt was massively overrated. Why did he win the Player of Year in 2002? For his passing creativity? Er, No. For his ability at deadball situations (corners, freekicks)? Er, No, he never took any! For his goalscoring from midfield!!!? Er, NO! For his ''winning the ball in midfield''? Er, again, No. His tackling ability was overrated. Only rarely did you see him actually crunch into a tackle. He simply ran around following the ball in midfield and sometimes nicked the ball off someone or picked up some scraps. 

What Holt DID show in that season was an unbelievable level of physical energy and running power to track players all day long and go on surging runs. We used to see it a number of times every match, it was awesome really. Trouble is he had NO OTHER ABILITY. Once that energy level started to fall away he was lost. In the 2002-2003 season Worthy persisted in playing him when he carried a pelvic strain for months. In the promotion season he produced the occasional performance of the 2002 type (away at Derbyand Rotherham) but never anything remotely like that consistency. Last season - I sympathised with him - he carried that illness for weeks which showed great courage and when he did play we coud see that the decline had continued. Lots of you are saying that ''he only got found out in The Premier''. I disagree. If that were the case why did Worthy get rid of his favourite when we were relegated may I ask?  Surely he would have been ideal for The Championship?     

[shardy 0]

    Following on from jonny and yellow rider r.e. holt yup he was crap and yellow rider got it spot on with his description of holts game. as for him being found out in the prem, rubbish i found him out after that first season. I couldn''t believe he got player of the season, so i started to watch his game then and he did what yellow rider said he ran all over the pitch doing nothing (fooled worthy for 3 years tho) Gary holt was the main reason NCFC got relegated FACT.

    On the subject of Andy Hughes it''s a bit early to make hard and fast judgements, but i like what i seen up to now, committed tough tackling ball winner who can actually pass. i think in the crewe game he was trying too hard to make an impression in front of his new fans.

    And i would say to you all that you need to give players a chance to prove their worth before you slag them off i.e. Jarrett how many times has he played for us and you''re all calling him crap, maybe he is, maybe he isn''t but give the fella a chance first. (remember the doc was crucified on here not too long ago)

[Holtys three lungs 0]

Shardy,

IMO - Gary Holt is NOT the reason that we were relegated last season.  It is the fact that over 38 league games we were simply not good enough as a team.  There was not enough strength in depth to the squad, etc. etc.

To blame one player is totally wrong. 

[Tom Blazak<P><IMG src="http:new.pinkun.comforumsimagesline.gif"><BR>Tom Blazak<P><P>Ronaldinho - The Huckerby Of The Nou Camp<P> 0]

shardy,

thats ridiculous, and its not even a "FACT" - its an opinion, did you not go to school?

the reason we got relegated was not Holt and that was a stupid comment to make. the reason we got relegated was that over the course of the season, we did not pick up as many points as the teams who did not get relegated.

i think Holt gets a raw deal on here, yeah ok he was crap, but he was a good servant to the club and i dont think that anyone could dispute that whilst he was one of the least technically gifted professional footballers, certainly that ive ever seen, i would venture that he never gave less than 100% every time he wore the sacred yellow and green.

yeah he wasnt a great player, but he always gave 100% and thats why he has my respect...il probably get slated for this, but i dont think that Iwan was the most technically gifted player ever, but my god did he care about this club! and he always gave his all for the city cause, which is why he''ll go down as a city legend. im not ashamed to admit that i even shed a tear or two when i watched his last game for us on the championship DVD.

thats how special Iwan was to the fans of this club, and it wasnt because he had the skills of Ronaldinho, or the shot of Adriano....

Back to the main point of this thread, Hughes gives his all for us, he never gives anything less than his best, and the respect he shows to the fans is absolutely top notch, i have a lot of time for players who show so much respect for the fans...and i think its harsh to say he is crap, because he is a quality ball winner, and i dont think we''ve seen the best of him going forward, give him til xmas if u want to assess how good he is, personally, i cant see what everyone is complaining about - i think hes done alright and with mcveigh playing, we do have that creativity we lacked early doors of the season.... Hughes is an excellent captain, and i think he has the potential to go down in history as a city legend, especially with the relationship he''s starting to build with the fans, and to go round and clap the fans after losing and being booed off shows a hell of a lot of courage....give him some time, he''ll prove the doubters wrong imo

[Robbo007 0]

Gary Holt was one of the main reasons why we got into the play-offs, so how can you knock him?! In that season, he was a ball winner. He made tackles, he made blocks, and as the saying went, he was here, he was there, he was every ****** where, Gary Holt....

If you''d have seen him that season, you''d have known why he was voted player of the season

[FatMan Fat 0]

Good for you, Tom.

I also believe that Hughes could turn out to be a revelation and will develop a fantastic rapport with the fans. As he finds his feet he will get better and better

[Mook 0]

I remember the Cardiff game, the "Huckerby" game. But one memory sticks out more than the others.

We were completely dominating Cardiff, had scored the third and were all over them, 10 players in and around their box after a free kick. The ball was cleared and it looked like Cardiff had a break on.

All the other players stood and watched while Gary Holt chased the sonofagun that was dribbling down the field, caught him up after about 50 yards, wiped him out completely, came out with the ball, and started another attack.

There was no way Gary Holt was going to give up, no matter how many goals we were winning by - if the same could be said for the other much "better" players at the club now, then we wouldn''t be sat in the bottom half of the table.

Anyone that can truly slate Gary Holt has short term memory loss, and has forgotten the central midfield for the five years before he arrived. Shaun Carey and Peter Grant anyone?

[shardy 0]

robbo07 yes i did see holt that season he didn''t particularly stand out for me yes he was here there and every where but when he got there he did fcuk all although he did get hit with the ball a few times and yes you could count these as blocks.

    anyway after he got player of the season i decided to actually watch what he did and that is what i had to do for the rest of his time here because i couldn''t believe a professional footballer could do nothing but run all over the pitch and little else.

    the reason why i blame holt for our relegation is not because he was crap but because he was taking up a very valuable space up in the side which we could ill afford to do

    P.s. the reason why Iwan was a god (in my eyes too) was because of his goals, i mean if he can score that many goals for us (a poor team at the time) what could he have done in a good side. We love Iwan always

[huck tastic<IMG src="http:new.pinkun.comforumsimagesline.gif"><BR><FONT face="Comic Sans MS">Bryan Hamilton could turn this around...<BR><FONT> 0]

Gary Holt- struggled initially, but was highly influential in the Play-off year. His performance against Birmingham at Cardiff was outstanding, but consistent effective perfomances throughout. Never the most creative player, but not his primary role, and at his best formed a balanced partnership with Mulryne good enough to be very competitive in Div1 for 2 seasons, 2001-3. Deserved Player of the Season that year, never as good subsequently, probably due to playing on through injuries. Yes, he was found out technically in the Premiership, and yes Wothington was right to transfer him in the summer, and should also probably have replaced him last season far quicker.

Andy Hughes- atrocious first couple of games, very reminiscent of Holt at end of 2000-1 season. Subsequently has improved a lot. Very quick, very hard-working, good contribution defensively, covers a lot of the pitch. Passing can look terrible, but far fewer mistakes lately. Needs a proper passer of the ball next to him in midfield- luckily Safri- otherwise he might look very ordinary. Also looks a strong possibility for a late-tackle red card fairly often. Has seemed to be pretty energetic as captain, and credit to him for being able to take on the role just after joining a new club- must show a lot of confidence. Safri is the key man in midfield, but Hughes is looking effective at this level at the moment. I don''t see any reason why he should n''t be captain, if the senior players accept it. 

[Robbo007 0]

1 month on, and I still stick by my original comments. Hughes isn''t the best of players, and can only stay in the fans'' good books by saluting the crowd (and being the only one to do so), for so long.

I think he''s a top lad, but doesn''t bring anything to the team, when we''ve got Safri, who is a similar, but better player, playing next to him

[LinkNR9 0]

Hughes is one of the worst players ever to pull on a Norwich shirt. I would be happy if he never played another game for us.