Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Ray

Who did the pundits blame, RM or others?

Recommended Posts

Unfortunately, for the first time this season, I was unable to attend today so watched the game on BT and interestingly whilst the experts said the goals we conceded were mainly defensive ''lapses'' contary to what many spout on here RM was only blamed for the obvious one, Brady, Pinto and Seb were blamed for the others, alomng with our midfiled.

So, considering we wouldn''t have scored our first goal if RM hadn''t have kept the ball alive why the need to lambast a very decent bloke with the club at heart and doing his best.

Yes, they all make mistakes, and Russ made a massive one today, but why pick on him as an individual, in fact why do so many, so called NCFC supporters use such derogatory languge about a NCFC player?

Perhaps it shows their mentality! Criticise by all means, if you have to, but look at the big picture. Why ostracize one idividual, irrespective of performance. There were many others who could have their own threads knocking them, Bassong, Pinto, Brady, Howson, Redmond, Hoolahan, etc, etc. Plus of course the manager.

I have no issue with constructive criticism, but very little on here is constructive and we all know who those posters are!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fans need a scapegoat and Martin is it. Yes his backpass isn''t defendable but every player was culprable today for our poor defending.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I have always tried to defend him when it''s relevant but the problem is that he''s out of his depth.

He''s not good enough going forward as a full back, he lacks the pace needed to defend in this league and as a centre half he''s not comfortable enough on the ball and doesn''t get tight enough to his man. His distribution is also poor, it''s always a hopeful long ball and he gives the ball away to much; the gift today is a great example of the problem he has, because he''s not comfortable on the ball he''s always looking to go backwards and today it cost him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hear, Hear Ray!

What about Redmond? Prior to Liverpool''s first goal he failed to close space on the right leaving Pinto exposed. Around 60 seconds later it occurred again - this time he made no effort whatsoever to shut down the space and the cross led to a 0-1 deficit. Completely preventable & I saw AN call him over to the touchline shortly after.

But do fans pick up on that? No! Far easier & more comfortable to use RM as the scapegoat.

All rather predictable...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
He gets criticised because he is awful. His positional sense is diabolical. Time and time again he makes terrible errors, this is far from the first time he has cost us with an awful backpass or error of judgement. And as a captain he is a joke, no leadership qualities what so ever. He was a liability in the championship so why anybody thought he is cut out for the prem is beyond me. People really don''t understand the difference between scapegoating and justified criticism. Bennett is far and away a superior Centre Back, and if he was available today Alex Neil''s desicion to drop him in favour of Martin is inexcusable and unforgivable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
He was poor today, no question about it.  But Brady, with his playing Firmino onside for the first goal and his ludicrous header back across his own goal for the last goal, wasn''t far behind in terms of general poorness.  Meanwhile Pinto appears to have a few issues with positioning.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry to gatecrash the RM love in going on here but you should know by now that he is the main cause of of defensive problems, both as player and as captain. Yes others made mistakes but that blind back pass from near the half way line is what knocked the stuffing out of us and everything that happened after that was because of that.95% of NCFC supporters are neither blind or stupid and they see what happens week in and week out & make their honest judgements accordingly.And that honest judgement, however uncomfortable for some, is that RM is no longer good enough.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Keith Scott"]He gets criticised because he is awful. His positional sense is diabolical. Time and time again he makes terrible errors, this is far from the first time he has cost us with an awful backpass or error of judgement. And as a captain he is a joke, no leadership qualities what so ever. He was a liability in the championship so why anybody thought he is cut out for the prem is beyond me. People really don''t understand the difference between scapegoating and justified criticism. Bennett is far and away a superior Centre Back, and if he was available today Alex Neil''s desicion to drop him in favour of Martin is inexcusable and unforgivable.[/quote]He wasn''t available today, he wasn''t dropped, his wife is about to have a baby and he was withdrawn from the squad for that reason, so AN did not make an inexcusable or unforgivable decision.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Actually thought he played quite well in the first half in terms of his use of the ball and making himself available.

But he costs us goals. It''s not all or always his fault but quite often it is and you can''t stick your head in the sand and pretend otherwise.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="OldRobert"][quote user="Keith Scott"]He gets criticised because he is awful. His positional sense is diabolical. Time and time again he makes terrible errors, this is far from the first time he has cost us with an awful backpass or error of judgement. And as a captain he is a joke, no leadership qualities what so ever. He was a liability in the championship so why anybody thought he is cut out for the prem is beyond me. People really don''t understand the difference between scapegoating and justified criticism. Bennett is far and away a superior Centre Back, and if he was available today Alex Neil''s desicion to drop him in favour of Martin is inexcusable and unforgivable.[/quote]He wasn''t available today, he wasn''t dropped, his wife is about to have a baby and he was withdrawn from the squad for that reason, so AN did not make an inexcusable or unforgivable decision.[/quote]

Is that actually true though? There seem to be conflicting reports and Neil himself said it was a tactical decision didn''t he?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Rich T The Biscuit"]I have always tried to defend him when it''s relevant but the problem is that he''s out of his depth.

He''s not good enough going forward as a full back, he lacks the pace needed to defend in this league and as a centre half he''s not comfortable enough on the ball and doesn''t get tight enough to his man. His distribution is also poor, it''s always a hopeful long ball and he gives the ball away to much; the gift today is a great example of the problem he has, because he''s not comfortable on the ball he''s always looking to go backwards and today it cost him.[/quote]

RT, I take issue on a number of your points;

1) He is comfortable on the ball, well our most comfortable, why do you think the others give it to him, and probably under instruction.

2) His pass completion is as good as all the other defenders, if not better, see whoscored.com

3) If his distribution is poor it is still better than our other defenders, see point 1)

4) His accurate long ball distribution is better than our other defenders, again see whoscored.com

5) I agree, a massive error today, but not the first player to do that

6) Still our second top scorer

7) May be out of his depth, but if he is then so are the rest, so why should he be singled out?

8) Finally, it ain''t his fault, he does, always has and always will give 100%, so if anyone is to blame for his performance it is the guys that have and still do select him!!

Cheers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
the telling thing was after martins mistake for the goal johnny howson tried to gee him up and martin looked ruined, he was shaking and realised what hed done but all round he looks like a player whos confidence has completely gonewhich is not really a surprise given the run of poor form hes had

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Making Plans"]Sorry to gatecrash the RM love in going on here but you should know by now that he is the main cause of of defensive problems, both as player and as captain. Yes others made mistakes but that blind back pass from near the half way line is what knocked the stuffing out of us and everything that happened after that was because of that.95% of NCFC supporters are neither blind or stupid and they see what happens week in and week out & make their honest judgements accordingly.And that honest judgement, however uncomfortable for some, is that RM is no longer good enough.[/quote]

He hasn''t been good enough for a long time

But today was ridiculous

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote user="Norfolk Mustard "]Hear, Hear Ray!

What about Redmond? Prior to Liverpool''s first goal he failed to close space on the right leaving Pinto exposed. Around 60 seconds later it occurred again - this time he made no effort whatsoever to shut down the space and the cross led to a 0-1 deficit. Completely preventable & I saw AN call him over to the touchline shortly after.

But do fans pick up on that? No! Far easier & more comfortable to use RM as the scapegoat.

All rather predictable...[/quote]

Martin unfortunately is out of his depth but you are correct about Redmond. His work rate and application is appalling. We need to offload him

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
iron_stan,

You say it is poor form, but who was it who cleared off the line last week, who was it who essentially made our first goal today. Yes he would have been guuted but only because of the standards he sets himself.

I for one am glad he was shaking, at least it shows what it means to him, as for some of the others??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Ray"] 8) Finally, it ain''t his fault, he does, always has and always will give 100%, so if anyone is to blame for his performance it is the guys that have and still do select him!!

Cheers[/quote]
What the hell are you on about?
His performance isn''t his fault, it''s the manager''s?!?!
So AN instructed him to play a backpass without looking did he? One that sold Rudd 35yards short, it wasn''t even like it was a reasonable pass and he hadn''t seen Milner, it was a shambolic pass and even more stunning that he didn''t even look before aimlessly kicking it.
He''s a grown man, he is responsible for his own performance, others are not. Yes he should never have been picked there, but he is the one who sees himself as a CB rather than a RB. He is the one who wants to play at CB. 
To try to blame anyone but him for his performance is ridiculous.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
GJP,

IMO, your comment shows your lack of understanding of the game of football, the score is fri**ing irrespective, he read the game, got back and cleared and if we were already x goals down it shows even more desire over and above others, besides understanding and reading of the game.

I have seen the man do this on more than one ocassion, very rarely do I see others do it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Ray"]iron_stan,

You say it is poor form, but who was it who cleared off the line last week, who was it who essentially made our first goal today. Yes he would have been guuted but only because of the standards he sets himself.

I for one am glad he was shaking, at least it shows what it means to him, as for some of the others??[/quote]
It was a header back into the box. It wasn''t exactly messi-esque attacking play and to be honest, it wasn''t even aimed, just headed back into a dangerous area. I would be stunned if I saw a professional player in any league do anything else in that situation. 
The standards he sets himself? Well even if the standard is to be consistently mediocre, he regularly falls short of that so he must be consistently disappointed with himself. You''re pleased that he was disappointed about making that horror show back pass? I''d be more pleased if he stopped f**king up to be honest.
Are you his Dad or something?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Ray"]GJP,

IMO, your comment shows your lack of understanding of the game of football, the score is fri**ing irrespective, he read the game, got back and cleared and if we were already x goals down it shows even more desire over and above others, besides understanding and reading of the game.

I have seen the man do this on more than one ocassion, very rarely do I see others do it.[/quote]
Funny, I saw Brady make a last-ditch tackle today to the same effect. I genuinely don''t understand why yo''re defending him as a footballer. Good bloke, certainly. Been good for the club, yep, that too. Is he good enough to perform at the requisite standards for the Prem? There''s very little supporting a case to say yes. His time is up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Ray"]GJP,

IMO, your comment shows your lack of understanding of the game of football, [/quote]

Unlikely.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote user="Rich T The Biscuit"]I have always tried to defend him when it''s relevant but the problem is that he''s out of his depth.

He''s not good enough going forward as a full back, he lacks the pace needed to defend in this league and as a centre half he''s not comfortable enough on the ball and doesn''t get tight enough to his man. His distribution is also poor, it''s always a hopeful long ball and he gives the ball away to much; the gift today is a great example of the problem he has, because he''s not comfortable on the ball he''s always looking to go backwards and today it cost him.[/quote]

Definitely this. Klose is his upgrade and will make quite a difference if as expected he plays the ball forwards with composure in tight situations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
kick it off,

Your lack of understanding of the game astounds me, my problem I guess.

Headed back into a dangerous area, will that well do for me, besides the effort he made to get there when many wouldn''t have bothered.

Yes, he made an enormous error, as I said in previous posts, so what is your point there?? They all do, even Stones, Terry, etc.

If as a player he performs at his best it ain''t his bl**dy fault he gets picked

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Rich T The Biscuit"]...he''s not comfortable enough on the ball and doesn''t get tight enough to his man. His distribution is also poor, it''s always a hopeful long ball and he gives the ball away to much; the gift today is a great example of the problem he has, because he''s not comfortable on the ball he''s always looking to go backwards and today it cost him.[/quote]I''d say the same could be said about the way our side functions as a unit, ie we often lack the ability to pass and keep possession. In this sense Martin is a yardstick for the whole team.The acid test would be how good we''d be if we were forced to play a pure passing game. Some teams would do well, and (ironically) this includes Liverpool who seem to have good passing and movement in their footballing dna. But we''d flounder.I don''t think this is necessarily a confidence or technical ability issue. We just don''t seem to drill fluency of possession or movement into our players any more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think with all of these things Ray is that everyone has a different opinion, yes there were others that were bad but all of my points stand and I''m sure most on here agree.

As for stats, if you pass a million sideway balls or back passes I''d become top of some random website, maybe that''s how AN picks his side, based on some random website.

AN made it very clear that Martin was picked to deal with Firmino, well guess what, he epically failed and then topped it off with a hapless attempt to pass, yep, backwards when he had no need to do so.

By no means is Bassong a million miles better than Martin and ideally we''d replace both of them but clearly that''s not going to happen.

His time is up, he has long been due to be dropped and we need a captain that leads by a good example, not just because he''s a nice guy and gives 110%.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Ray"]kick it off,

Your lack of understanding of the game astounds me, my problem I guess.

Headed back into a dangerous area, will that well do for me, besides the effort he made to get there when many wouldn''t have bothered.

Yes, he made an enormous error, as I said in previous posts, so what is your point there?? They all do, even Stones, Terry, etc.

If as a player he performs at his best it ain''t his bl**dy fault he gets picked[/quote]
OK, my lack of understanding of the game astounds you. So elaborate on what else anyone would do when the ball comes directly at them at head height on the edge of a packed penalty area. Yes he did the right thing, but nothing extraordinary. You''re praising him for doing the bare minimum he should be expected to do, and the most logical thing to do, as if he skipped past 5 defenders and went round the keeper and put it on a plate for Mbokani. 
The "effort he made to get there when many wouldn''t"???? Again, what the f**k are you on?! He was on the edge of the box, basically directly underneath where it fell. He barely moved. Literally, a yard at most. I think I''m fairly safe in saying that most players would make that level of effort. (Highlights are HERE - skip to about a minute in if you want to check)
If I f**k up at work, I hold my hands and say ''yep, screwed up there''... I don''t say "Well it''s your fault for hiring me". That''s probably one of the dumbest arguments I''ve ever heard.
Neil is not responsible for Martin''s atrocious decision making, nor his consistent poor positioning. You hark on about him clearing one off the line in the 3-0 but fail to mention that Martin standing off his man by 3 yards rather than pressing to block the cross (twice inside 10 seconds) caused the first, got away with a probable penalty after getting turned inside out at 1-0, and put in a piss-weak tackle letting Daniels past him to cross for the 3rd.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What a game though, just back in after a few post match drinks.....

As for Martin, was dreadful, Bassong apart from his goal, was poor and Pinto & Brady not great.....just say that Martin / Bassong was the pairing at Newcastle and today and look as if they are non league CB''s together. 11 goals conceded with these two there.

Just to say we saw a marked improvement once Bennett came in and since Martin''s been back in the last three games prior to today he''s looked a little less confident, makes you ask why?

In reality Martin is a good squad player but never a starting premiership CB nor is Bassong on this form, so not scapegoating but making a point that changes are needed for Tuesday.

But what a belting game well done the boys for not giving up......good energy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...