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shyster

Is Ashton Overrated?

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Ashton IS a great striker, and even now, when he''s either injured, off-form or down in the dumps for some other reason, and playing in an under-performing side, he''s on course to get more than 20 league goals.

However, it is a bit disturbing to see valued players who give the impression of being semi-detached. I emphasise that it may just be an impression and not reality, but I''ve seen it also in McVeigh''s behaviour in the past. It would be a great shame if it were reality, because those two are probably the most creative players at the club.

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Have to disagree , Cambridge.

I''ve been attending since 1975 and the best strikers I''ve seen in yellow and green are Sutton and Drinkell.

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I guess it all comes down to what your personal expectation is.

If you are rating Deano on the basis of a classy Championship striker of a young age who has showed that he can perform in the Championship, and who could, and should get better, over the next few years - then he is certainly not "overrated".

If you are judging him as being the "finished article" who can dominate Premiership defences, and preseumably International defences as well, then he would be "overrated".

Deano is what he is - a 21 year old striker still learning his trade who has an outstanding Championship scoring record and who also proved he could score in the premiership whilst playing within a struggling side - and that being so, he is not "overrrated".

 

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[quote]Have to disagree , Cambridge. I''ve been attending since 1975 and the best strikers I''ve seen in yellow and green are Sutton and Drinkell.[/quote]

Drinkell was the most natural finisher I have ever seen - as a footballer more than twenty yards away from the goal he was shocking and barely worth being on the pitch, but get him near the penalty box and he really was a predator.  I think Deano has more to him than Drinks.

As far as a complete footballer is concerned I would have to agree with you about Sutton As well as the ability to score he held the ball up superbly, had strength and pace (the key missing element in deanos game) and could pass the ball as well as most midfielders in England at the time.   That the FA cut his Engalnd career so short remains a travesty at a time of one dimensional mediocre international class strikers for England - but I guess that is another opic for another day.

OTBC

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Don''t forget Sutton was also a quality centre-back, but I do remember him missing some easy chances in the FA Cup semi-final versus Sunderland in 1991 & also against Milan away in 1993.  Those memories are a bit hazy now, so forgive me if I am incorrect, don''t forget ZLF, that Sutton refused to play for the B team I think,  so he shot himself in the foot as far as England were concered.

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[quote]Don''t forget Sutton was also a quality centre-back, but I do remember him missing some easy chances in the FA Cup semi-final versus Sunderland in 1991 & also against Milan away in 1993. Those mem...[/quote]

Every striker has missed and easy chances at some stage in their career - even Pele.

As far as Suttons refusal to play in the B team he certainly did not help himself but part of his argument was right - he was far better than the other players in the squad and the only proven player with A team experience.   

Did it warrant never being picked again?  Probably not.

OTBC

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Granted Zipper, every striker misses chances,  but it was the significance of those games that makes it stick out I suppose. We could have won those games, (didn''t Inter say we were one of the best teams to come to the San Siro?). 

To speak out against the England regime was stupid, he must have known what would happen, but yes, he was far better than most of the strikers around at the time and perhaps couldn''t contain himself any longer.

This isn''t a rant against Sutton btw, I always loved the guy and just wish he could have stayed longer at FCR. Who knows what we could have achieved had he stayed around for a few more years....

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I think you sort of proved my point about Drinkell , Zipper.

I agree that Drinks did very little outside the box but strikers are paid to score goals and for that reason he is one of the 2 best strikers I have seen in the yellow and green.

As for Sutty , the last season he was with us he virtually carried the team all season.I can never remember seeing any striker (inc Shearer) consistently hold the ball up and bring others into play as well as he did that year.The fact that he blew his potential England career in a fit of petulance will no doubt be of regret to him once he is retired and looks back on his career.

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[quote]Don''t forget Sutton was also a quality centre-back, but I do remember him missing some easy chances in the FA Cup semi-final versus Sunderland in 1991 & also against Milan away in 1993. Those mem...[/quote]

Bit harsh i feel.

In the Semi against Sunderland , Sutty was elevated virtually from the youth team to play in that match due to injuries.He was also hampered by having a half-fit Flecky as his strike partner that day so it was little surprise that he was nervy and didn''t have a game to remember.

My memory of the day is hazy too but as I recall , the whole team had a nightmare and Sunderland weren''t much better.Still ranks as my biggest letdown whilst following City.(closely followed by Fulham last year,obviously).

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[quote]I think you sort of proved my point about Drinkell , Zipper. I agree that Drinks did very little outside the box but strikers are paid to score goals and for that reason he is one of the 2 best strik...[/quote]

I certainly do maverick, I certainly do.  

And that is how much potential I think Ashton has; we just need him to fulfill it.  5 in 10 games with only partial fitness, poor service and a lack of focus - what could he do when fit!?!

 

OTBC

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Why do some Norwich fans have such short memories?

How anyone can question Dean Ashton''s ability is beyond a joke. It was 5 months ago that he scored in wins over Manchester utd and Newcastle, 2 of the biggest clubs in England, and now u are sayin he isn''t that good. I might be wrong but if you did a Premiership golden boot from march till the enf of last season, i reckon Dean Ashton will be right up there with Henry and co, certainly ahead of Shearer , probably Van Nistelrooy and many more superstas. Shearer is a good example, hadn''t scored for months, but undoubted class, he''s been one of the most consistent premiership strikers ever. Anyone can have a bad spell. But callin 5 goals in 10 games ''bad'' is rediciulous. He may not be on top form, but if 1 in 2 games is bad, then i would love 2 see him on top of his game. You never no 37 goals in 37 games till the end of the season and he may be off 2 Germany.

Ashton is the best striker we''ve had since Bellamy,Roberts was good (a legend), but not ever scintillating. It seems to me that Mckenzie is the one who gets a way with it a bit, he runs about like a headless chicken sometimes and 4 what, a goal occaisonally. But he never gets criticized. Sometimes it seems you would sell ashton for 3 million quid, and sign up Coote, LLewellyn, and give thorne a starring role with Elvis Hammond in reserve.

And as Michael Owen would say'' the one thing i can promise from Ashton is goals''. He will get 25 this year no probs.

Not bad 4 a striker who''s overrated

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Fair comment Maverick and I also enjoyed Zipper and the other''s contributions.  Respect for different opinions and all that.

I go back to 1970 so we are the same generation.  Drinkell and Sutton are good calls though you could  alternatively have cited Ted MacDougall, Phil Boyer, John Deehan and Robert Fleck without anyone questioning your sanity.

I agree that Drinkell was a devastating predator as was SuperTed.  Neither were strong in the air nor terribly impressive in open play.   Reeves was a very strong finisher with a real goal instinct though not quite in their league.  (42 goals in less than 3 seasons in the old first division)   He was magnificent in the air despite not being huge and had great linking and ball skills.  He would have made a quality midfielder.

Sutton was/is more of an allrounder like Reeves as was John Deehan who was another who excelled at the back.  John Bond spent over aseason trying to sign Reeves before succeeding and we cold all see why.

Reeves was our second Engalnd cap and unlike Boyer''s, his was an acclaimed selection.  Before he was sold, there was a massive outcry leading to the most famous and memorable banner ever:

"No Reeves, no fans, no future"

Fortunately, only the first came to pass but we would have had a different history had he have stayedand avoided the injury that ended his career.  Sales robbed us of the best of both Reeves and Sutton

It is all a matter of taste when comparing players at this level.  I would choose Greaves over Liniker but not argue with anyone who thought the opposite.

The essential point is that Deano at 21 when he is fit and has his mojo working easily has the potential to be as good as Reeves, Sutton or Deehan who are the players he most closely resembles.   Maverick, you and I have seen all four over 28 years.  We know that City fans should enjoy and relish Deano.  Players like him do not come to FCR very often

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I hear your voice , Cambridge ,  but remember the club had to sell Reeves to fund the River End stand.

Deehan is actually my favourite Canary ever (though I don''t rate him as highly as Drinks or Sutton).If I was picking my favourite strike partnership of all time it would have to be Deehan and Bertschin - I thought they had everything.Dont really remember enough about Boyer and Macdougall to make a valid judgement.I also thought Drinkell and Biggins complemented each other well even though Biggins wasn''t the most skilful player , he was fantastic in the air for a relatively short guy...

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And I remember seeing City win without MacDougall, Boyer, Reeves, Drinkell, Bellamy and Roberts.  In fact, there may even have been games when they played, we won and they didn''t score but I can''t be sure.

Sorry, your point..............??!!??

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[quote user="shyster"]

Firstly, congratulations to the City on this afternoons victory A victory & display that I personally believe will put us in good stead for the rest of the season & hopefully will give us more than a slender shout at the play offs - Heck, we might even finish in the top two And maybe we can do it without Ashton

My main concern, not just from todays match, is the form of Ashton this season -- Yes, I know he''s notched up 4 goals, but if a 4 to 7 million pound rated striker isn''t going to score a goal every two games who the hell is, Robert Green? The point I''m trying to make is that I personally think he''s pretty average & he needs to vastly improve on performances to prove otherwise -- Everytime he tries to hold the ball up he commits a foul, he can hardly turn on a sixpence, a quality one looks for in most highly rated strikers - He seems to have trouble reading the oppositions game plan regarding off-side traps and his finishing is seriously lacklustre for the best part.

Come the end of the campaigne & Ashton has scored nigh on 30 goals & won us promotion, I vow to eat my words -- But I seriously don''t believe I''ll have to. 

If we''re offered serious money for Ashton come January I sincerely feel we should cash in.

[/quote]

 

I still hold firm that Ashton is overrated and we''ve done the right thing by cashing in.

Onwards & upwards city!

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As well as Roeder I was right about Ashton too - check the date of this thread.

Please listen to the Shyster in future.

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[quote user="shyster"]

As well as Roeder I was right about Ashton too - check the date of this thread.

Please listen to the Shyster in future.

[/quote]

Hmmmm

Dean Ashton or Jamie Cureton

Dean Ashton or Koroma

Dean Ashton or Antoine

...yeah, he may be overated, but we dont miss him at all now do we.......

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How desparate Shyster appears to be for some sort of confirmation. Going back 3 years to find a post where he was right, and that has already been well parried back to him by Huddy.  I think his call up for England proves that  he was not over rated then.

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Ability wise, he''s very much underrated and is in the top 4 strikers in our country, it''s just that he''s become far too injury prone to ever prove just how good he really is since he left us

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[quote user="Jimmy Smith"]Ability wise, he''s very much underrated and is in the top 4 strikers in our country, it''s just that he''s become far too injury prone to ever prove just how good he really is since he left us[/quote]This just totally sums it up. He is in the same mould as Berbatov IMO. And if he was able to stay fit, I''m sure Man UTD would have signed him instead.

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[quote user="shyster"]

He''s definately overrated in terms of the money that''s been bandied around for him -- Which is why I believe we should sell him to any club that''s daft enough to shell out for him so that we can finance a signing or two of Davenports calibre -- Thorne, when he''s fit, is more than capable of filling the role that Ashton is currently playing for this club.

 

[/quote]aaahhh, hahahahahahahahaha. That is the most ridiculous thing that I have ever seen on here - you sir, are a muppet. Thorne capable of filling Ashtons boots??? Well did he? I know neither of them are as good as your hero Alan Lee (remember when you wanted him here?).    I suppose we will all be proven wrong when Zola signs Peter Thorne as Deanos replacement. You of course will be right - after trawling this thread up again to ''prove'' something - you have actually done that. You''ve proved that you are literally stupid or you just don''t know anything about strikers - hold on! are you part of our scouting network???

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Christ on a yellow Yamaha FS1E, Scotty, have you had a sense of humour bypass recently?! It must''ve been obvious to most that the Thorne comment was a joke!

Ashton is an  overrated , injury prone  lard-arse who has already peaked - I knew it then and it''s been confirmed now.

Please cease being envious of my footballing knowledge, you big chump. You''ll be telling me I was wrong about Roeder next.

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[quote user="shyster"]

Christ on a yellow Yamaha FS1E, Scotty, have you had a sense of humour bypass recently?! It must''ve been obvious to most that the Thorne comment was a joke!

Ashton is an  overrated , injury prone  lard-arse who has already peaked - I knew it then and it''s been confirmed now.

Please cease being envious of my footballing knowledge, you big chump. You''ll be telling me I was wrong about Roeder next.

[/quote]It''s quite obvious it wasn''t a joke at the time - it''s perhaps

convenient for you now to say that it''s one - due to the absurdity of

the remark.

No, I won''t tell you were wrong about Roeder. I knew he wasn''t the solution as well.

So, who''s the best striker Shyster as I''m now confused. Please rate

these players in the order of 1,2,3. Dean Ashton, Alan Lee and Peter

Thorne. I know Alan hasn''t been mentioned in this thread till recently.

I know you used to create threads about him so I was just wondering

where he fits in. What with all your footballing knowledge and that.

Thanks for your help.Oh! thats a really funny phrase you used - Christ on a yellow Yamaha FS1E. As good a joke as the Thorne one. I wish I was as creative and funny as you.

Way to resurrect a thread and make a total tonk of yourself.

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Is that how you see it, Scotty, me making a tonk of myself? After all I''ve merely stated the bleedin'' obvious here.

 

What''s a tonk?

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Do you actually know what ''obvious'' means.e.g. ''stated the bleedin'' obvious here'' - you didn''t and it wasn''t obvious - it was a silly comparison. You couldn''t call it obvious ever.

''obviously it was a joke'' - I don''t think it was a joke and if it was a joke.....it wasn''t obvious.

If you need any other help let me know - I''m not going to explain what a ''tonk'' is - it''s obvious. Probably best if you learn one word at a time at the moment.

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Spotthecock - [quote]So, who''s the best striker Shyster as I''m now confused. Please rate

these players in the order of 1,2,3. Dean Ashton, Alan Lee and Peter

Thorne.[/quote]

Answer - Peter Thorne with 14 goals.

Injury prone, lardy-arse scored a couple at the beginning of the season.

You wrong, me right.  [:D]

Somebody beam Scotty up.

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[quote user="shyster"]Spotthecock - [quote]So, who''s the best striker Shyster as I''m now confused. Please rate

these players in the order of 1,2,3. Dean Ashton, Alan Lee and Peter

Thorne.[/quote]

Answer - Peter Thorne with 14 goals.

Injury prone, lardy-arse scored a couple at the beginning of the season.

You wrong, me right.  [:D]

Somebody beam Scotty up.[/quote]WAC

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