Jim Smith 2,610 Posted January 25, 2016 There is a table in the Sun newspaper today showing the number of tackles made by all premier league teams so far this season and we are second bottom with only Swansea below us. Some teams have made almost twice as many tackles.A few weeks ago a similar table was doing the round showing that on average our players have covered the least ground per match of any team in the premier league.Now leaving aside the fact it was in the Sun and also acknowledging that positional discipline and good team structure can reduce the amount of running a team needs to do when taken together those two sets of stats do seem to point to why we may be struggling a bit defensively. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TCCANARY 263 Posted January 25, 2016 Is your solution to our problems run around more and make more tackles? How exactly will you make this change? If these stats really made a difference they would reflect in the overall table but in the last 4 season the three teams to be relegated have been the three teams at the bottom of the stats table on only one occasion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
morty 0 Posted January 25, 2016 Stats can indeed prove all sorts of things.I was 100% sure this thread would be negative before I even opened it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lappinitup 629 Posted January 25, 2016 Stats prove that 98.7% of miserablists will find stats to undermine our team when we lose......Stats prove that 98.7% of miserablists will start threads undermining our team when we lose......Stats prove that 98.7% of miserablists will disappear when we win...... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lowlyfendweller 0 Posted January 25, 2016 So these ststs suggest that we''re one of the worst teams in the league? Funny that, they read like we''re a promoted team battling for survival!Though I must say, I wish we would get a foot in more at times. Too much "sheparding" from some defenders!! Difficult to judge for our players though, If we did we tackle more we might end up with too many bookings instead!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rudolph Hucker 0 Posted January 25, 2016 Stats are a guide and before the apologists rubbish these then consider that we have conceded more goals in the last 30 minutes (21) than any other side..........fitness levels or just naively chasing games?As for running and tackling; those two things were sorely missing on Saturday with our lazy wingers not tracking and our lazy full backs not getting back plus our midfielders and wingers failing to make meaningful tackles.We must be a joy to play against. The two sides promoted above us both similarly worked us off the pitch in recent games.Everyone wants to have a go at Russell Martin and I''m sure he''s honest enough to know he made a fatal error but when he has the ball high up the pitch who is showing to take a pass from him? Who didn''t track Milner?We do not have the quality of most other sides but hard work and effort makes a lot of difference. Do Leicester for example have a stellar group of players? Or Palace? Or Watford?We can''t afford any ''give me the ball prima donnas'' but we have some. Perhaps Steven Naismith - who needs to be captain, can tell a few of them some home truths.We can do it, we did it against Stoke, admirably. But then on came Redmond and Jarvis and suddenly we lacked runners when we didn''t have the ball.BJ covered a lot of sins with his incessant running and Tettey is running for two players, and putting his foot in, he must look at others and shake his head. Our left side must be Olsson and Brady. Our right side is a bigger issue. Perhaps Pinto can step up but what natural right winger do we have who will put in a proper shift?If Redmond wants to leave and we can get someone who can go back as well as forwards we might have a chance. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jim Smith 2,610 Posted January 25, 2016 [quote user="TCCANARY"] Is your solution to our problems run around more and make more tackles? How exactly will you make this change? If these stats really made a difference they would reflect in the overall table but in the last 4 season the three teams to be relegated have been the three teams at the bottom of the stats table on only one occasion. [/quote]Put crudely yes we do need to make more tackles and some players do need to run around a bit more (or track back).I would argue the stats, coupled with our league position and defensive woes suggest a reason why it is too easy at times for teams to play through us, especially when Tettey does not play. Perhaps there is a fitness issue that needs looking at but also it suggests that we need to be more physical and stop problems at source more often. Too much backing off going on. I don''t see it as negative to point to areas we could improve over the rest of the season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AJ 1,359 Posted January 25, 2016 60% of the time it works every time Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gunthorpe 0 Posted January 25, 2016 A key factor here is that you have to get near someone with the ball before you can make a tackle or you get sent off Saturday we were no where near Liverpool players who had the ball Team was too attack minded - AN''s fault I''m afraid - not the players but his Bring on Spurs Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hogesar 10,763 Posted January 25, 2016 These stats always cheer me up.IF we''re so rubbish at so many different area''s, then the only way is up.And the fact we''re so rubbish but still not in the relegation zone must be a real positive to take from all this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Branston Pickle 4,150 Posted January 25, 2016 I imagine Swansea are at/towards the top of the possession stats, but sit just above us in the table. It is clearly about a myriad of things - IMO there''s almost too many stats in football right now Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Molly Windley 76 Posted January 25, 2016 To play a pressing/tackling game you need to hunt in small packs.Someone needs to know when to press and when not to press and to orchestrate the coordinated movement of players.With the exception of Jerome who can lead and call for a press in the opposition half we have no other leaders, we definitely have nobody in defence or midfield that can do this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JF 694 Posted January 25, 2016 The only stats that are meaningless are possession stats. All other stats used correctly can tell you the likely outcome of a match. The stick that Grefstad used to get by people for bringing up stats was simply ignorant on their part. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TCCANARY 263 Posted January 25, 2016 The ''likely outcome'' doesn''t sound too clever based on the possibilities. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TCCANARY 263 Posted January 25, 2016 And I''m the one who''s meant to be ''ignorant''? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JF 694 Posted January 25, 2016 Not really but I would like you to elaborate on the not too clever based on the possibilities comment? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lappinitup 629 Posted January 25, 2016 [quote user="JF"]All other stats used correctly can tell you the likely outcome of a match.[/quote]No point saving this one lads, we''re gonna lose anyway......... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TCCANARY 263 Posted January 25, 2016 It''s quite simple, the possibilities are a win, a loss or a draw so that''s a 1 in 3 chance of getting it right, if you are using stats to predict the outcome and can only define it as ''likely'' it''s not stacking the odds in your favour.What in the stats enabled people to correctly get the results this weekend? How did they enable you to determine that Swansea would win away, that Chelsea would win at The Emirates? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JF 694 Posted January 25, 2016 I stake a hell of a lot of money per month on stat based gambling and made a significant amount out of our match Saturday, very rarely touch Norwich games but over 3.5 goals and both teams to score was too good to turn down. That''s why I said likely outcome because it can''t always be correct, but more often than not the stats will lead you to the route that the match will take Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TCCANARY 263 Posted January 25, 2016 Another gambler who likes to tell us about his winnings but Ladbrokes, Paddy Power et al seem to keep going. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JF 694 Posted January 25, 2016 Not at all. I''m simply saying that certain stats show you the likely outcome and shouldn''t be dismissed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,902 Posted January 25, 2016 [quote user="JF"]I stake a hell of a lot of money per month on stat based gambling and made a significant amount out of our match Saturday, very rarely touch Norwich games but over 3.5 goals and both teams to score was too good to turn down. That''s why I said likely outcome because it can''t always be correct, but more often than not the stats will lead you to the route that the match will take[/quote] I''m interested what stats made you think both teams would score on Saturday JF. Because whilst Norwich have scored in all bar one of the games where Martin/Bassong have been paired they have failed to score in nearly half the games Bennett/Bassong have been paired. It''s only really a good bet if you know the teams. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JF 694 Posted January 25, 2016 Team selection, only put it on from sick bed before kick off! Btts landed 13/22 before Saturday, home scoring record, conceding goals at alarming rate and h2h record. All boxes ticked really. Fancied it before the team selection as put it for my pick in the pups page for the Norwich bet Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,902 Posted January 25, 2016 Thanks JF. One eyed stats would be of less use to you then. So I expect you at least can see my point about football being a team game and stats should be looked at as such. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
A Load of Squit 6,260 Posted January 25, 2016 A lack of tackles, Km''s run and lack of physicality not part of any decision making.Like most gamblers, they go on a gut feel and try to claim there''s some science behind their luck. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JF 694 Posted January 25, 2016 Maybe. I''m on over 2.5 and Btts in burnley match tonight also Burnley to win with Btts. And over 2.5 goals in the Rangers match so hopefully the science/luck works out! 🙏🏻 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,902 Posted January 25, 2016 [quote user="JF"]Maybe. I''m on over 2.5 and Btts in burnley match tonight also Burnley to win with Btts. And over 2.5 goals in the Rangers match so hopefully the science/luck works out! 🙏🏻[/quote] Well you got the Burnley option in buddy[Y] As to why we score twice as many and concede twice as many with Martin/Bassong than Bennett/Bassong. Is it because we play a higher line when the former are paired? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Essjayess 307 Posted January 26, 2016 Here is a very relevant and concerning stat, which could prove many more points may be needed this season to avoid the bottom 3. Last season in the Prem, after 23 games, 3rd bottom were Hull with 19 points, Crystal Palace were 13th on 23 points. Compare that with the table right now and 13th to 18th sides have far more points this season after 23 games. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
westcoastcanary 173 Posted January 26, 2016 The betting industry LOVE stats because the "headline" stats with which we are bombarded (by said betting sites and also journalists looking for ways of filling column inches without having to use their brains) encourage people to bet. Would the bookies be so keen to publish all those stats if they thought it was putting a valuable resource in the punters'' hands? Of course not. But that has very little to do with stats-based football analytics, as important a resource for any top-level club today as its training or medical facilities. It''s a great shame if the negativity towards stats which seems to pervade this board really does represent peoples'' views. Maybe they just don''t understand what it''s all about? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
