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neongreenjon

Fitness a possibility?

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Shoot me down if needs be and this is no pop at anyone, just something I noticed listening to canary call on bbci player yesterday and what Daryl Sutch was talking about.

I think he said that at 3-1 the players looked a little tired as they had worked so hard in the first 55-60mins.

Could this be a conditioning issue as tiredness leads to mistakes?

Whats everyone''s opinions?

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Possibly.

I think the most telling factor that was on top of all this we really missed having either Tettey or O''Neil in front of the back 4. If we had started that 11 I''ve no doubt by the hour mark one of these two would have come off the bench to protect the back 4 - sadly we just didn''t have that option due to Alex''s unfortunate illness

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Definitely in regards to Tettey/O''neil - someone shielding back 4 would make us more solid.

Was just a thought that came to mind when I was listening. People mentioned the fitness levels the last few seasons, and I was just wondering if the way players are conditioned over the last few years may have changed? Maybe I''m over thing things

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I doubt it''s a physical fitness problem, the monitoring of individuals fitness levels is so sophisticated now. However as Gref once said, to be competitive we do need to run ourselves into the ground, for want of a better expression.

It seems more to me like a mental fitness problem, as you get tired your decision making becomes less accurate and you tend to make more wrong decisions, that''s what cost us on Saturday, from the RM back pass to Brady''s heading the ball across our own goal towards our own penalty spot.

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mental sharpness does sound like something they need, watching the highlights again, we just get shakier and shakier. Maybe a leader is needed on the pitch to relay the calm down/focus messages from the bench and lead by example, something I haven''t seen since good old Holty

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[quote user="neongreenjon"]mental sharpness does sound like something they need, watching the highlights again, we just get shakier and shakier. Maybe a leader is needed on the pitch to relay the calm down/focus messages from the bench and lead by example, something I haven''t seen since good old Holty[/quote]

Seemed to be mainly psychological to me. The players seemed to be suffering from vertigo as soon as they got their two goal lead.

No idea what the technical term for this issue is but it''s one you see quite often in sports where a person or team start making needless unforced errors as soon as things start going overly well for them. Almost like they start focusing so much on not making a mistake that''s all they can picture in their minds and they then act out their own worst nightmares.

Good examples of this include Nico Rosberg gifting Lewis Hamilton the F1 title last year by skidding off the track when in the lead before winning 4-5 races back to back when the title race was over, Norwich City in our ill fated 92/93 title challenge or Andy Murray in 20 of his 22 (I made that stat up but it seems like that many I''ve watched him lose) major final matches.*

But yes a good captain is what''s needed, unfortunately for Norwich our captain is one of the worst culprits for this negative mindset and unforced errors.

(* for future reference see also Leicester City in the 15/16 season run in).

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If anyone wants an idea of football fitness training then [url=http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2015/jul/21/swansea-city-garry-monk-pre-season-fitness]read this[/url]. I''ve no idea how Norwich compare, but I read somewhere that we''ve recently invested a fair bit in our training facilities.

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[quote user="Holtcantshoot"][quote user="neongreenjon"]mental sharpness does sound like something they need, watching the highlights again, we just get shakier and shakier. Maybe a leader is needed on the pitch to relay the calm down/focus messages from the bench and lead by example, something I haven''t seen since good old Holty[/quote]

Seemed to be mainly psychological to me. The players seemed to be suffering from vertigo as soon as they got their two goal lead.

No idea what the technical term for this issue is but it''s one you see quite often in sports where a person or team start making needless unforced errors as soon as things start going overly well for them. Almost like they start focusing so much on not making a mistake that''s all they can picture in their minds and they then act out their own worst nightmares.

Good examples of this include Nico Rosberg gifting Lewis Hamilton the F1 title last year by skidding off the track when in the lead before winning 4-5 races back to back when the title race was over, Norwich City in our ill fated 92/93 title challenge or Andy Murray in 20 of his 22 (I made that stat up but it seems like that many I''ve watched him lose) major final matches.*

But yes a good captain is what''s needed, unfortunately for Norwich our captain is one of the worst culprits for this negative mindset and unforced errors.

(* for future reference see also Leicester City in the 15/16 season run in).[/quote]

Vertigo is a good metaphor for it.  If your confidence is fragile, in situations when you get ahead, it is the first thing that goes - and then nerves does the rest.  You tend to react more slowly (which makes you look less fit) your decision making gets more erratic and that encourages the opposition to think they''ve got you by the balls.  We did well to come back into it having gone down 3-4, but the damage had already been done to our confidence defence wise - and actually, horrible as it was, it wasn''t that surprising L''pool managed to strike again before the end. Call it nerves, lack of confidence or whatever, it needs addressing - because although it is great to play without fear, which we did on Saturday to get 3-1 up, playing without fear has to apply right to the end.  Martin''s back pass at 3-3 was so bad it could only have been carelessness brought on by the fear of losing after having done so well previously.   Pressure and nerves does funny things to people - that is why football is full of mistakes in games - it happens to all players.   How they respond once having made mistakes is the key.  We have three players now who have made game changing howlers Ruddy, O''Neil and Martin - they will know they have loused up and will need to look at themselves and why they made howlers - and learn from it.  Ruddy I hope will have buckled down, O''Neil has serious questions to ask himself as does Martin.  They are only human and it would be wrong to castigate them for errors of judgement - they simply need to get their heads down and make sure it doesn''t happen again. Having said that, it wasn''t all Martin''s fault that we lost on Saturday.....the team as a whole were floundering... and the whole team needs to get the issue out in the open and sort it out.   Nerves can be a good thing if channelled properly...nerves that spoil your performance are something else.   Do the club have or work with a sports psychologist?  

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[quote user="Mr Jenkins"]I doubt it''s a physical fitness problem, the monitoring of individuals fitness levels is so sophisticated now. However as Gref once said, to be competitive we do need to run ourselves into the ground, for want of a better expression.

It seems more to me like a mental fitness problem, as you get tired your decision making becomes less accurate and you tend to make more wrong decisions, that''s what cost us on Saturday, from the RM back pass to Brady''s heading the ball across our own goal towards our own penalty spot.[/quote]
Monitoring only tells you what the players are or aren''t capable of. It is of course helpful to know if what they''re capable falls well short of the necessary levels to enable them to out-last the opposition while maintaining performance, but only to the extent that you then understand the scale of the problem. Short term you can try to address it by e.g. making maximum use of substitutes to re-energise the team as key players tire; asking less of the players by adopting less demanding game plans; and making maximum use of the squad system to rotate and rest players. 
In response to Grefstad''s quite justified questioning of our team''s fitness levels, people on here pointed out that we were set up in a way which required less running about. Have they considered the possibility that this has been due in part to our relatively poor fitness levels. Similarly, posters have applauded AN''s readiness to change the team and make use of his squad options. Is that because he has every confidence in his squad players or because player fitness doesn''t allow him to keep selecting them game after game? If players ARE capable of playing more or less every game, AN does seem to pick them -- Howson, Brady, Bassong and more recently M''bokani, for instance.
People were quick to rubbish Grefstad''s stats. My question to them is: what do your eyes tell you about our energy, stamina, etc. compared to the opposition?

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westcoastcanary wrote the following post at 26/01/2016 2:23 AM:

Mr Jenkins wrote:

I doubt it''s a physical fitness problem, the monitoring of individuals fitness levels is so sophisticated now. However as Gref once said, to be competitive we do need to run ourselves into the ground, for want of a better expression. It seems more to me like a mental fitness problem, as you get tired your decision making becomes less accurate and you tend to make more wrong decisions, that''s what cost us on Saturday, from the RM back pass to Brady''s heading the ball across our own goal towards our own penalty spot.

Westcoastcanary

"Monitoring only tells you what the players are or aren''t capable of. It is of course helpful to know if what they''re capable falls well short of the necessary levels to enable them to out-last the opposition while maintaining performance, but only to the extent that you then understand the scale of the problem. Short term you can try to address it by e.g. making maximum use of substitutes to re-energise the team as key players tire; asking less of the players by adopting less demanding game plans; and making maximum use of the squad system to rotate and rest players. "

I find this interesting Westcoastcanary, so are you saying that our players aren''t as fit as other teams. I certainly understand the idea that a player can be fit but not match fit, it doesn''t matter how much training you do it can''t fully prepare you for the actual requirements demanded when playing a game, and the only way to gain that ultimate level of fitness is to play,

But if you are saying that halfway through the season our players aren''t fit then I find that amazing and if you are right then some serious questions need to be asked.

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The fact is we''ve conceded more goals in the last 20 minutes of games than any other team in the division.

I would suggest fitness certainly is a factor.

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It maybe fitness, when Alex Neil arrived at Norwich he said he could see we had a team that could go up but what he insisted on was that we should work harder than any other team. This has clearly not happened in several of our matches. Now I don''t believe he''s changed his philosophy, it maybe that they are too tired to do it.  

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Think this is a great shout. You just had to look at Gary Hooper when he was here he looked like a sumo wrestler most of the time

I would be happy to help the club with my expert fitness skills

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Does anyone know if the club does training sessions in the evening? I don''t think this was the case a couple of years ago because I''d see the odd player in the city around tea time.We do seem to lack stamina late on in matches, but on the other hand we don''t have too many injuries this season. I think the stamina is probably a strategic, game management issue, whereby we punch ourselves out a bit too early instead of slowing play down to catch our breath.

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From watching live games it does look as if we are lacking fitness, unwilling to press high and get back quickly to defend as a team.

Why is this when we have a recently restructured management team and a technical director who has taken responsibility for player fitness.

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