Buh 0 Posted February 1, 2016 I''m following the live ticker on the BBC football site for transfer deadline day and they''ve got a football manger expert going through targetsSome idiot who plays football manager, offering his perspectiveI just find that completely stupid"Well he''s only an 4 in the air but he''s got 8 for pace..."I just can''t stand that whole sanitised, statto based idiocy. You can smell the lack of live football on them. You can tell straight away with these people they have zero feel for the game just moneyball stupidity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557 Posted February 1, 2016 Not as stupid as Sky Sports who present Football Manager stats as facts about players - in a serious way.At least the BBC acknowledge its an ''alternative look''. Anyway its sport, you know, not that serious. If they were using Civilisation to predict how the crisis in the Middle East was going to pan out then I would worry.Bit harsh to call the guy an ''idiot'' it''s not like he''s saying - this is definitely what is going to happen. Also, there are more than a handful of football clubs out there that use the same database as Football Manager for their actual player scouting, so there is actually something behind it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buh 0 Posted February 1, 2016 I just cannot stand this whole group of people, and it''s a sizeable group, that believe FIFA and FManager IS football.He''s just had a look at some midfielder and said "he scores well on composure and decision making"How the hell do you put a number on composure/psychological abilities? It''s just all a load of b0llocks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YorkshirePudding 0 Posted February 1, 2016 Buh they don''t say that it''s like real life, they''re just saying what happens in the game.I agree with bethnal, i don''t see what the problem is. It''s got to be better than Ian Wright who doesn''t even know the players'' names, let alone anything about them Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buh 0 Posted February 1, 2016 I honestly believe that there are some that get solace and security by making football a mainly virtual thing.It''s a safe environment with no variability, no surprises and surprises that do happen can be altered and changed and manipulated easily by you. I''d be willing to bet there are many, many Chelsea fans that took to video games and the inevitable high stats Chelsea''s players have on there to win the title flawlessly as a distraction, as therapy, for their epically failed seasonWonder how many virtual simulations would have Leicester at the top of the table this yearIt''s about control and how some can''t take it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The ghost of Michael Theoklitos 0 Posted February 1, 2016 There was a book a few years back called ''Football Manager Stole My Life''. It''s a good read. I stopped playing Football Manager many years back, but in my uni days and beyond I was completely addicted to the game. While a little dry in a few a places, overall I found the book a decent read.There is a part of the book where they talk about the scouting, and how they look at their scouting ''network'' as one of the first examples of ''Crowdsourcing'', a concept that is now deeply entrenched into modern life with social media. To start with, they used to engage old fanzines and get them to scout their own teams and youth players. Of course, things have got a lot more sophisticated since, and there is a lot of time and effort that goes into this part of the game.They also talk about the first time Everton approached them and asked to pay for the rights for their database. I think there is some value in those numbers to give one side of the story.Having said that, I do agree with the OP with the fact that ''football manager'' + ''social media'' = ''annoying kids who think they''re experts''. I also get a little annoyed at Sky Sports looking at the FM stats on a big board discussing new signings. I can only assume thought that this part of the Transfer show is more a paid advertisement rather than top class punditry. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Apples 1,317 Posted February 1, 2016 Has Grefstad got a new job? Apples Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tetteys Jig 830 Posted February 1, 2016 I''m with bethnal on this. It''s just a lighthearted look at stuff. I find it funny people get annoyed by it and take it so seriously like they are some kind of football hipster that thinks fm is beneath them.I agree football ability is far too fluid for fm to be entirely accurate but it doesn''t do a bad job in summarising most players abilities in general. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lessingham Canary 99 Posted February 1, 2016 Bit concerned now, the thing that attracted me to this forum was the input from so many experts, from stato''s to tactical genius to fitness guru''s, thought I would slot in nicely !! now I am starting to wonder if these experts that surround me are not as they seem ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buh 0 Posted February 1, 2016 Surely FM uber-users are the hipstersI''m fairly sure watching football and formulation opinions was here before "tackling 4/10, half time dump 8/10" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557 Posted February 1, 2016 A large part of it is just trying to provide some ''content''.24 hour news channels, rolling blogs. etc require a huge amount of item or posts to keep them going, so these kind of things provide another piece of information to keep things ticking over.I still don''t really understand your argument against it, apart from being maybe a grumpy old man :-) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buh 0 Posted February 1, 2016 This is it, not old, in my twenties.Just never been a fan of the FM/FIFA obsession online and how it is considered as more important than what actually occurs in real life. It definitely is down to control. Football in real life, as we''ve discovered recently, is pretty unpredictable. It''s a harsh place with devastating lows at times and viewing it through a prism of a computer game helps people feel in control.The term "he''s well good on FIFA" might be the thing that grinds my gears the most about modern football.The whole thing just feels a bit "cheeky nandos" to me Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tetteys Jig 830 Posted February 1, 2016 The hipsters used to be the fm lot "before it was mainstream"Now it seems they wish to take their "intellect" elsewhere.Most of us know to take fm and FIFA with a pinch of salt. We have seen enough Freddy adus over the years to know better.I do sympathise with the whole "cheeky nandos brigade" comment through. Perhaps I''m getting old though!Completely agree that playing/watching live footy is far better as well but that''s not always possible.To add, I know FIFA use a fairly simplistic model to rate players but still employ a number of "scouts" for each club that must back up any rating changes with video/solid evidence as I did when I changed the criminally underrated Robbie Brady. They are quite lazy changing some around though. Like I''ve said tho, its just meant to be a bit of fun. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
westcoastcanary 173 Posted February 1, 2016 [quote user="Buh"]Surely FM uber-users are the hipstersI''m fairly sure watching football and formulation opinions was here before "tackling 4/10, half time dump 8/10"[/quote]Very true, just as astrology preceded astronomy and Granny''s Magic Cough Cure preceded antibiotics! Maybe the widespread negativism towards stats based football analytics arises from a dim awareness that there may actually be more to understanding the game than just "watching football and formulating opinions"? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
STAN 29 Posted February 1, 2016 Football Manager employ the largest scouting network in the world. Most top clubs use the FM database to track/monitor players in the darkest dingiest corners of the world. It''s basically a cheap reliable first report. To make out FM stats are some completely made up nonsensical for spotty 17 year olds is wrong. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The ghost of Michael Theoklitos 0 Posted February 1, 2016 [quote user="STAN"]Football Manager employ the largest scouting network in the world.[/quote]1,300 is the number spruiked by SSN. But they''re not employed, they''re Crowed Sourced.I''d wager Tom Cavendish is probably one. Make of that what you will.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
STFU 0 Posted February 1, 2016 Of course you can put anumber on Composure Buh. For instance, I''d guess your''s was below 5.😉 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buh 0 Posted February 1, 2016 I''d rate your "witty comebacks" as a 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hank shoots Skyler 2,094 Posted February 1, 2016 Given you have copied the basis of his jibe for your response....what would your ''witty comebacks'' stat be....? :)I''m with ST4N on this. I do agree that football is of course very unpredictable, but that''s not to say that the ability of an individual player cannot be broken down into numbered categories to show strengths/weaknesses. Of course its not full proof, but I don''t think anyone is claiming such, merely using the stats as a guideline/alternative view. It certainly speaks for itself the number of clubs who now harvest the software. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites