Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Ray

What's Gone Wrong & Why?

Recommended Posts

Good thread this and some great comments. Classic Pink Un, what a treat...thanks everyone.Can''t add much as I agree with a lot of what has been said and would only be repeating it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
• Little/no investment in playing staff in the summer

• Arrogant/stupid view that last year''s squad was good enough to hold its own in EPL

• Persistence with inexperienced unknown manager who, frankly, should have been fired for not achieving automatic promotion last year

• We have had no more problem scoring but conceding goals is a huge issue. So what do we do in the January window? Blow the budget on a new striker, get a couple of unproven defenders in and fail to sign the quality goalkeeper that''s so obviously needed.

• Oh, and we appoint Ed Balls as chairman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Ray"]Recently AN said it is not a psychological thing, based on what I have seen recently, I beg to differ, as I did then.

There is something wrong somewhere and it falls to those in charge to identify what it is and sort it.

There is a line of responsibility which starts with the individual players, goes through AN, then the so called Football Board, then McNally and ultimately the board and the owners.

So, where lies the problem? The owners appoint individuals with ‘football experience’ (CEO, Football Board, etc.) to identify and appoint others (Manager & Coaches) with ‘football experience’ who in turn decide on the line up, tactics and manage and motivate the team. So it could easily be argued the responsibility stops with the owners, which I guess ultimately it does, however essentially the owners are fans and are not steeped in ‘football experience’, yes they have business decisions to make, which could include replacing anyone down the line, however they are advised by the CEO, so it all gets a bit messy.

Someone needs to identify why we have gone so far backward (even though we have apparently brought in 4 new first team improvements) who should that be, who is responsible, who should be taking action and what action should they be taking?

I have my own views, one of which takes me back to my first point, attitude, mindset, motivation, etc. are all psychological aspects of performance and I assert performance is 80% Attitude and 20% ability. You may not agree with that statement, but it was Didier Drogba who said, “90% of my game is in my head”, but whether or not you agree with the percentages is somewhat irrelevant, some part of performance is driven by attitude (mindset) and I believe this is where things are going wrong and the club needs help, not just with the players but probably the manager and above.[/quote]

I never liked Ed Balls!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
We have to start games on the front foot, first goal tends to win a game. We need to get back to basics, pass and move etc. when was the last time we outplayed a team ? Wes should never play on the wing, it never works. how about 5 at the back with wing-backs ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Swindon,

Agree entirely re front foot, which brings me back to mindset, your foot doesn''t make the decision, your brain does, or doesn''t.

Wingbacks, I would be tempted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I believe where we are now follows a disastrous summer transfer window which left us short in key areas (particularly defensively) and with one of, if not the, weakest squads in the league.

A then swashbuckling Alex Neil decided to stick to his convictions regardless of our obvious frailties and we began the season playing in his then signature manner, a high-tempo game based on ball retention and high pressing.

Despite decent results the shortcomings remained and we dropped points in games where we were deserving of more, culminating in a walloping by a poor Newcastle side in a game where we (as normal at this point) had more chances and possession than the opposition.

Neil then reassessed our approach (considered our shortcomings) and decided we couldn''t afford to play so openly with the players at his disposal. We became more pragmatic, happy to concede possession and counter teams. This bore out a win against Swansea in an early ''must win'' game and Neil has been searching for an effective balance ever since with mixed results slowly eroding his signature style.

The win against a struggling Man Utd was a definite highlight when we put in a solid disciplined performance, capitalising on their poor form.

Wins against Villa and Southampton were achieved whilst not playing particularly well and with both out of form. However, it did seem that Rudd had started to bed in nicely and the defence started to look more robust with Bennett at CB and Martin at right back.

Neil has still been trying to capture that ultimate ''balance'' against a backdrop of numerous changes of personnel and tactics. Individual errors, moments of indiscipline and bad decision making have been prevalent throughout the side and any belief we once had has ebbed away.

When Alex Neil arrived I was struck by the clarity, honesty and forthright nature in which he speaks and was assured that players would be certain of their jobs on the pitch and motivated to perform them. I''d say Neil''s own confidence is now eroding along with that of his side.

I think the only option is for Alex Neil to return to type and pursue his initial convictions. If we do go down we should at least do it fighting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
For me, we really don''t have an identity as a playing squad. Can anyone really explain what style we play?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Stone"]I believe where we are now follows a disastrous summer transfer window which left us short in key areas (particularly defensively) and with one of, if not the, weakest squads in the league.

A then swashbuckling Alex Neil decided to stick to his convictions regardless of our obvious frailties and we began the season playing in his then signature manner, a high-tempo game based on ball retention and high pressing.

Despite decent results the shortcomings remained and we dropped points in games where we were deserving of more, culminating in a walloping by a poor Newcastle side in a game where we (as normal at this point) had more chances and possession than the opposition.

Neil then reassessed our approach (considered our shortcomings) and decided we couldn''t afford to play so openly with the players at his disposal. We became more pragmatic, happy to concede possession and counter teams. This bore out a win against Swansea in an early ''must win'' game and Neil has been searching for an effective balance ever since with mixed results slowly eroding his signature style.

The win against a struggling Man Utd was a definite highlight when we put in a solid disciplined performance, capitalising on their poor form.

Wins against Villa and Southampton were achieved whilst not playing particularly well and with both out of form. However, it did seem that Rudd had started to bed in nicely and the defence started to look more robust with Bennett at CB and Martin at right back.

Neil has still been trying to capture that ultimate ''balance'' against a backdrop of numerous changes of personnel and tactics. Individual errors, moments of indiscipline and bad decision making have been prevalent throughout the side and any belief we once had has ebbed away.

When Alex Neil arrived I was struck by the clarity, honesty and forthright nature in which he speaks and was assured that players would be certain of their jobs on the pitch and motivated to perform them. I''d say Neil''s own confidence is now eroding along with that of his side.

I think the only option is for Alex Neil to return to type and pursue his initial convictions. If we do go down we should at least do it fighting.[/quote]Post of the day. Exactly my thoughts

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The real problem is the total lack of ambition from the top down. As many fans pointed out the lack of investment over the summer was suicide, you can not compete in this league without investment the stakes are too high!

In the end AN will have to go it is now not a question of if but when.

Any other club in this league would not accept this dire run of performances and results I think many clubs in the Champs would do better.

And that sums up little Norwich we sit and watch this unfold as do our Board knowing full well we have been here before!

AN has to go and now he has lost the players and fans with ridiculous selection and tactics! bennett has been frozen completely out for no real reason.

There is no real leadership on and off the pitch look at reaction when opposition score pathetic!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Top thread! Lovely to get engrossed in reading some real debate for once.

Agree with much of what has been put especially that the only way out of this is to find a way of shrugging off the negative thinking (lack of confidence) that is clearly sweeping through he team. Teams playing with confidence can see huge performance gains and momentum, even without wholesale changes in personnel.

Two things we can do to try and get more positive.

Press the opposition, rather than stand off conceding possession and look to get forward earlier. This has the added benefit of getting the crowd behind the team as well.

AN must improve confidence pretty much straight away - tough ask I know but time is very short. Harsh game football but I''m afraid if he can''t then we must bring in someone who can (Nigel Pearson?) or our survival chances will quickly disappear and who knows when we may have this opportunity again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Shambolic defending and a delicate mindset in my opinion.

Too say we give away too many soft goals would be an understatement. Poor players can still defend well if they are well organised but organised is certainly not the word I would use for our back four. I can''t remember the last time I''ve seen such ineptitude at keeping a solid and tight line at ncfc and we''ve all seen some woeful defenders/management here.

We''ve seen this squad play well and with at confidence at times this season, and much poorer squads (technically) be more successful in the past (i.e. Lamberts team). Our current inability to hit 8 yard passes suggests that morale is rock bottom and is not helped by the fact that more often than not we''ve given away a soft goal before half time and have given ourselves a mountain to climb.

I''m beginning to lose confidence in the coaching and management staff here and I take no pride in saying that. I don''t see any signs that someone on or off the pitch can lift or lead the team. Naismith mentioned poor communication during the Liverpool game and he is completely right, we see our team begin to show signs of nerves and 10 minutes later we will be in full disarray as no one has bashed some heads and tried to rally the team.

Beating West Ham is now unfortunately a must, the longer this run goes on the less likely we are to ever regain some confidence for the real upcoming relegation 6 pointers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Stone has hit the nail on the head.

 

Hopefully the previous couple of performances, and current situation, have left AN with no option but to go back to his intial approach/mindset for future fixtures. As has been said, it''s better to go down swinging and if a more structured/positive approach isn''t taken against West Ham I fear the crowd may turn against him and the team.

 

Apples

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
playing an unbalanced 11, with players out of position (hoolahan ,howson and vadis are not, and have never been wingers) has not done us any favoursneil has sent them out afraid of the opposition, trying to shore up our weaknesses (defence), instead of playing to our strengths (attack)in truth hes bottled it, and its rubbed off on the players by the looks of it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think it''s worth remembering AN has a fundamental belief in analysing other teams, putting in the hours of research and scouting to identify a weakness be it tactically or personnel in the opposition, and picking a formation and team to suit.
This of course has its plus points but one of the downsides is the lack of consistency in the starting eleven, the formation and the style of play. Again, none of this is a problem when you''re picking up results but when you''re not you''ve now got no basic fundamentals to form a performance on. Are we one touch passing it or playing direct into Mbokani? Are wingers hugging the touchline or playing as inside forwards? Do we even play wingers or will there be a CM like Howson, in which case we''re relying on playing through the middle and creating space that way.
I''m in agreement that we should get back to playing how we were at the start of the season but it''s worth remembering at that time AN was still being slated on here left right and center for being too gung-ho and not knowing how to set a team up to win a game, just how to attack.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="hogesar"]
I''m in agreement that we should get back to playing how we were at the start of the season but it''s worth remembering at that time AN was still being slated on here left right and center for being too gung-ho and not knowing how to set a team up to win a game, just how to attack.
[/quote]at this point we need to win, id rather go down 5-4 every week than witness the reverse gear negative hughton esque rubbish we had against villato win games you have to score goals, to score goals you have to play goal scorers and attackng players in their correct positions,, we cant defend for toffee,regardless how we set up, so we might as well go for broke, we will win more than playing like we did saturday

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There was one event during the game which I think summed up the issue we have

A high ball game to us from the Villa half 3 of our players challenged each other and managed to lose it

Because of the continual swapping they haven''t a clue who is doing what and where

As a result confidence is shot and for the first time in years the usually ultra loyal away and boo''d the players

Make no mistake the issue is serious and if we carry on as is we will go down.

I leave it to those at the club to at least recognise the issue and resolve immediately

It''s so easy to fix that is the frustration.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agree there Hog with analysing other teams for some occasions, but for teams like Villa if we play our best available 11 in their correct positions I think we''d turn them over most times just by playing a natural (comfortable) style. Sometimes AN appears to overthink these things rather than trusting the players to go and do a (their) job.

 

Apples

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There are problems at many levels within the club. On the playing side an ever-present problem we''ve had is that we keep giving away the ball.It''s a fundamental issue that has dogged us for years and years. It''s not as visible in the Championship, but gets exposed whenever we get promoted to the Premier League.Inability to keep the ball is mostly independent of tactics and formation, and also not strictly related to individual skill. It''s more of an ingrained collective ethic, one that''s more of a focus for some teams than others.The trouble comes when the manager doesn''t have time to fix a fundamental flaw such as this. He finds himself having to mask it in order to achieve results and thereby lessen the risk of getting sacked.Few fans or club owners have the patience to actually spend time on fixing this issue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
In my opinion it has only really gone badly wrong since Stoke (a). We actually played quite well in that game but defeat was inevitable after O''Neil''s rush of blood. As stupid as that sending off was, we cannot lay the blame at the feet of any singly player.

Our current problems surfaced at Bournemouth (a). As has been said by many others this was a must-not-lose game but the team selection was naive and we set up as if it were a must-win game. It was fairly obvious that, as a team faced with a second long away trip in the space of 4 days playing against a team with the advantage of a second home tie AND with an extra day''s rest, we would need to be compact and battle to get anything from the match. Instead we got two wide players not known for their defensive abilities (Jarvis and Odjidja) and Wes playing again after putting in a shift as part of the 10 man effort at Stoke. The resulting poor performance was in my view entirely AN''s fault but I was surprised at his post match comments which largely blamed the players.

Since then AN''s judgement has been called in to question with the failure to manage the game from 3-1 at home vs Liverpool, the not-overly-apparent game plan vs Spurs and culminating in the debacle vs Villa.

Confidence is clearly at a season low and the only way to recover from this is to become competitive and improve results. This has to be achieved by starting at the back. We have got to stop leaking goals and the team selection must reflect this.

I am looking for AN to admit that he has made mistakes, play players to their strengths and give them a platform from which we can at least get something from the game.

Whilst I am very critical of AN at the moment I do not subscribe to calls for his sacking. He has something about him and we knew that he would be learning to a certain extent as he went. I thought he would get better as the season progressed but the evidence of the last four games suggests that he is facing the toughest test of his career so far. I am willing him to find the answer quickly but even in the likely scenario that we are relegated I think we should show some loyalty to him which we may well benefit from in years to come.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Stone"]I believe where we are now follows a disastrous summer transfer window which left us short in key areas (particularly defensively) and with one of, if not the, weakest squads in the league.

A then swashbuckling Alex Neil decided to stick to his convictions regardless of our obvious frailties and we began the season playing in his then signature manner, a high-tempo game based on ball retention and high pressing.

Despite decent results the shortcomings remained and we dropped points in games where we were deserving of more, culminating in a walloping by a poor Newcastle side in a game where we (as normal at this point) had more chances and possession than the opposition.

Neil then reassessed our approach (considered our shortcomings) and decided we couldn''t afford to play so openly with the players at his disposal. We became more pragmatic, happy to concede possession and counter teams. This bore out a win against Swansea in an early ''must win'' game and Neil has been searching for an effective balance ever since with mixed results slowly eroding his signature style.

The win against a struggling Man Utd was a definite highlight when we put in a solid disciplined performance, capitalising on their poor form.

Wins against Villa and Southampton were achieved whilst not playing particularly well and with both out of form. However, it did seem that Rudd had started to bed in nicely and the defence started to look more robust with Bennett at CB and Martin at right back.

Neil has still been trying to capture that ultimate ''balance'' against a backdrop of numerous changes of personnel and tactics. Individual errors, moments of indiscipline and bad decision making have been prevalent throughout the side and any belief we once had has ebbed away.

When Alex Neil arrived I was struck by the clarity, honesty and forthright nature in which he speaks and was assured that players would be certain of their jobs on the pitch and motivated to perform them. I''d say Neil''s own confidence is now eroding along with that of his side.

I think the only option is for Alex Neil to return to type and pursue his initial convictions. If we do go down we should at least do it fighting.[/quote]Despite this supposedly disastrous summer window the squad that resulted then got us well into January in 15th place, with 23 points from 20 games and with only a -9 goal difference (of course we did need a better centre-back and the amount of money we offered at least one continental club showed we knew that).It is too easy to blame the lack of one extra player. For whatever reasons it seems Neil is not managing anything like as well as he was before, and I suspect the point about players now not knowing what their role is and how the team in general is meant to play is a solid one. At the outset Neil struck me as being not a second Paul Lambert but a second Billy Davies, who used to be a very good manager and whose players were drilled into knowing exactly what their jobs were.From all the reports, for us that tactical clarity has gone, amid what ricardo (perhaps a bit unfairly) called Neil''s tombola-machine method of team selection.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
First of all,lets get Board issues out of the way. In the summer they ventured as never before to get guys into the club, yes even the defensive strength that Alex needed. But they tried and failed, maybe they were going after to highly rated  CBs in all honesty (Koulibaly, NKoulou etc), but it show their new intent to back a manager more strongly than ever before. Come January, they have brought in the guys Alex wanted, 8 new signings in a January window, nobody can dismiss that as a failing.On the pitch is where its gone wrong. The one man up front hasnt worked for ages, yet Alex sticks to it like superglue.  Newcastle game  changed his approach from attack to defence, but same one up front system. Come game 25, thats 16 games after Newcastle, nobody knows what we play anymore, except its still one up front. And oh yea, after 25 Prem. games Alex plays Hoolahan and Howson in winger position and Brady still at LB. Why has it gone wrong? because Alex doesnt have a clue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Everyone keeps talking about our unorganised defence, and I agree. Which makes me wonder who is the clubs defensive coach? I may be being stupid so please point out the obvious I''m missing, but I don''t see a former defender in our coaching ranks?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe its a combination of an inexperienced (although very talented) manager and a squad which is one of the weakest in the league. You could possibly get away with having one of these, but not both.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
When was the last time we won a game with Howson played as a right winger? Or Hoolahan on the Left?

From my quick glance, it was home to Swansea... On the 7th of November.

Now I''m not for one second saying that this or the other players consistently played out of position is the sole reason we could go down. But it really shoots ourselves in the foot when we essentially sacrifice an entire avenue of attack just to fit a player into the XI.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...