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Ray

Who decided what?

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Has anyone considered the fact that we went back to a higher pressing more attacking game against WH was the outcome of the ''meeting'' and the players were the advocates?

I know that in AN'' s first game at Bournemouth, when he was sitting in the stands, it was the captain that suggested the tactical changes, the bench had other ideas, and AN sanctioned the captains choice, so kudos there I suppose.

It may have been the players who wanted to change our tactics against WH, however they do not of course have too much influence over substitutions and tactics/ instructions once the game is under way and the manager is in situ, unless they totally disregard the manager''s instructions as they did against WBA when Hughton was manager.

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Lol, not this shit again! Like the Hughton "sod him and let''s go for the win" game where the players supposedly telepathically went against Hughton who only wanted a draw!

No, Alex Neil is a young manager who isn''t psychic nor blessed with 11 Lionel Messis to pick (you get the drift).

Every line up he picks will be a gamble with pros and cons to it both prior to a match and when picking the bones apart in hindsight.

Fact is, he probably had a decent run with a more organised but less aggressive set up just around Christmas but then for whatever reason results have turned and he had to switch it up a bit. It was a logical move to try replicate what worked well for us early in the season without being ideal and in return, we got a decent but predictably frustrating point against a strong but tired West Ham.

I''m sure they have team meetings where ideas get floated around but ultimately the tactical decision rests with him and then it''s up to the players to use his help to try win the game.

He''s alluded to himself in recent weeks where he feels he''s come up with great plans only for the players to fail to carry them through hence his change to a more direct and easier to understand approach. It''s easily found out but it''s what''s worked for us under him and what''s worked for Leicester in particular this season and in their case despite being easy to find out, it''s proven hard to stop.

I feel it''s a shame we went into our shell as much as we did after that Newcastle game. Players like Redmond thrive on direct football and we should play to our strengths and believe in ourselves a bit more.

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Maybe they could have another team meeting and come to a communal decision that they''ll learn how to defend? As Naismith said after the Liverpool game, if eleven players can''t prevent the opposition scoring for even as brief a period as two minutes at the end of a game, what hope is there?

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TJ,

Telepathically had nothing to do with it.

Furthermore, if your going to say " fact is" please don''t follow up with " he probably". It sort of defeats your point.

Also what does "he alluded to himself" mean?

Yes the final decision rested with him on this occasion but there may have been strong representations.

Finally Leicester have Ranieri AN is not Ranieri (yet).

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Hi Westcoast, how are you?

I agree, defending is an 11 man job and some of our players, imo, think it is a 5 man job!

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[quote user="Ray"]TJ,

Telepathically had nothing to do with it.

Furthermore, if your going to say " fact is" please don''t follow up with " he probably". It sort of defeats your point.

Also what does "he alluded to himself" mean?

Yes the final decision rested with him on this occasion but there may have been strong representations.

Finally Leicester have Ranieri AN is not Ranieri (yet).[/quote]

You got me... take out the "probably" it was fact.

"alluded to himself" was in reference in particular to where he said about all the work they did on defending only to concede after 2 minutes against Spurs. Was the first thing he spoke about after the game. He touched on similar things after the Villa game too.

As for Ranieri, this is the same bloke who managed to lose to the Faroe Islands twice in his last job, hardly a guaranteed title winning manager was he? Easy in hindsight though and I don''t know what that has to do with the point I was saying anyway. I was basically saying we''ve perhaps looked at them and realised we could have been getting away with our predictable direct but potent football we got promoted with as evidenced by Leicester this season.

I don''t really subscribe to the conspiracy theories and mutinies you claim may be prevalent but I appreciate it''s true that it''s ultimately up to the players what goes on on the pitch. AN can only do so much to direct them.

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[quote user="Ray"]Hi Westcoast, how are you?

I agree, defending is an 11 man job and some of our players, imo, think it is a 5 man job![/quote]

Thought this in particular vs West Ham. Our disorganisation and panic at the back didn''t do us any favours but I thought our midfield was mainly culpable for both the West Ham goals as i''ve discussed in Ricardo''s report.

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TJ,

Not once have I said anything was prevalent, so please stop putting slants on my posts. Nor have I used the word mutinies.

By alluded, I assume you meant alluded to anyone who was listening, as opposed to talking to himself?

Ranieri, no not a guaranteed title winning manager but one steeped in experience with top European clubs, something AN doesn''t have (yet). Plus he played at a higher level. Which I accept probably means bu88er all.

All that said, I think you missed the thrust of my original post, which for clarity was that he is still very naive in the nuances of a Prem manager and may not have what it takes, albeit I sincerely hope he does, however there may be someone else around who could be a very good manager in the future.

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Westcoast,

Abroad again on a mid season break.

Have a nice day!

Sleep, who needs it, a waste of 8 hours, you only have so many hours in your life.

If you have 70 good years in you and each day of the week represents 10 years, so on Monday you are between nought and ten, Tuesday between eleven and twenty, etc. which day of the week are you on? I''m into the weekend. I only hope it''s a bank holiday weekend!

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My apologies, it initially came accross like you were having a dig at the manager, but it seems you were more suggesting of a mutual and respected bond between him and his players.

I''m just used to the bile posted time and again on here suggesting outlandish things like "the manager wanted a draw but the players deliberately went against him and won as a result" etc.

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Tettey''s Jig wrote: "He''s alluded to himself in recent weeks where he feels he''s come up with

great plans only for the players to fail to carry them through hence

his change to a more direct and easier to understand approach."It''s all very well putting all this emphasis on detailed analysis of the opponent and how to exploit their weaknesses and counter their strengths, but it is entirely useless unless your own team do all the basic things right in the first place, like understand when and how to attack, when and how to defend. Fact is, after a year under AN''s guidance, we still don''t have the basics right.

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If would be deeply worrying indeed if Russell Martin was giving tactical advice and it was implemented bearing in mind he can''t defend for toffee

It''s an interesting slant on what is going on and even more concerning if there is a modicum of truth to it

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Loyal Canary wrote the following post at 16/02/2016 8:42 AM:

" If would be deeply worrying indeed if Russell Martin was giving tactical advice bearing in mind he can''t defend for toffee"

Try to stop thinking about food.

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I wonder if the captain will ask the manager to address the right backs costly lack positional discipline against West Ham.

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I wonder how deeply worrying it was when Mourinho''s tactical advice was implemented? The point of your remark is?

I think I''m correct in saying Grant Holt was captain v WBA

I''ve no idea what the truth is re the WH game but found it interesting that much appeared to be made about ''The Meeting'' and suggested it may be worth considering why.

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Some good points raised but also consider this.

instructuons are probably easier to carry out early on but as legs tire things fall apart and this is what happened against West Ham and Liverpool as players were caught out of position.

When you consider what makes a good player an important factor is their athletic ability and this is what is lacking especially in the key area of central midfield.

Top quality midfielders are renowned for their 90 minute engines,

Paul Scholes and Denis Wise are a couple, and it is widely recognised that a good side revolves around a solid energetic midfield.

This is the powerhouse of the team. It''s controlling midfield, supporting the attack and of course gelling with defence to defend.

Many of these goals could have been prevented by basic picking players up marking. sometimes you can see 3 or 4 of our players drawn to the ball with some ball watching when there is an opponent left totally unmarked.

The main issue NCFC have is the central midfield which needs more quality. Not convinced ok answer these questions:-

What central midfield player has the pace to outpace a defender one on one.

Central Midfielder picks up ball and is one on one with keeper, what happens next.

Central Midfielder shoots with keeper to beat, what happens next.

This for me is the whole issue regarding top quality player Brady, if you want him that far forward scoring goals then obviously there is at times exposure at the back. For me I would rather fully utilise Brady''s skills in central midfield where I might add he is desperately needed, and have more general cover at the back.

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The issue about fitness is not just the physical ability, when players get tired they will often struggle with the mental aspect of the game and make wrong decisions.

Could our capitulation on Saturday be in part due to a lack of fitness in the squad and poor decision making?

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Footyexpert,

IMO, a well made point. Mistakes will always come from every area of the pitch, although when an opposition player ''beats'' one of ours so many of our fans see that as a mistake by our man, when in fact the oppo has just done what he is paid to do and done it well. That said, I''m with you re our midfield, in general this season I think they''ve lacked pace, or more to the point haven''t used the pace they possess and this what I find most worrying. Watch Leicester, Man City, Chelsea, etc and see how quickly their midfield get from one end of the pitch to the other, whether our efforts have been under instruction, or the lack of it, I''ve no idea but we certainly seemed more on the front foot v WH, albeit I still think the midfield could have done more defensively.

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[quote user="Loyal Canary"]If would be deeply worrying indeed if Russell Martin was giving tactical advice and it was implemented bearing in mind he can''t defend for toffee

It''s an interesting slant on what is going on and even more concerning if there is a modicum of truth to it[/quote] If RM''s advice was "We can''t defend for toffee Gaffer, so our best strategy is to try and score as many goals as we can", it would be deeply worrying to some of us, but the vast majority of fans (including posters on here) would be cock-a-hoop. It''s what they''ve been calling for since Newcastle, and ultimately what did for Hughton. If we want to stop being a yo-yo club and establish ourselves in the EPL, at some point the penny is going to have to drop: if as a team (that''s eleven players by the way, not just the back four) you can''t defend for toffee, you will not survive long in this league.

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It doesn''t matter who decides what - it''s a team game and AN is simply the leader of our team.

It was more than likely we were more attacking because we must win games sharpish if we want to stay up!

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Wedtcoast,

Just gone midnight Saturday here, looking forward to a lie in, a cooked breakfast, a Sunday roast down the pub, a few beers and Super Sunday on SKY, and if that don''t do me in then I''ll hopefully be joining you on Monday.

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Great thread Ray. I think it would be a good thing for a manager to take on board players opinions. I don''t see that as a mutiny but just sensible use of available resources.

Love where we are in the week. I move into Sunday this summer where as my buddys Tilly and Lapp are heading towards their fortnight...

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Nutty,

They''re going to love you for that!!

Mrs J,

I agree re decision making, so we need to be fitter in mind and deed, or both. They probably spend 12 to 16 hours per week on the physical fitness, I wonder how much time is spent on mental fitness or toughness? Something you probably know I bang on about. Every physical movement, apart from the few reflex actions we are born with, comes via an instruction from the brain, so how often and for how long do they train that ''muscle''.

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]Great thread Ray. I think it would be a good thing for a manager to take on board players opinions. I don''t see that as a mutiny but just sensible use of available resources.

Love where we are in the week. I move into Sunday this summer where as my buddys Tilly and Lapp are heading towards their fortnight...[/quote] If only that was "Lamp" rather than "Lapp" nutty. Might provide more illumination for this forum ........... [;)]

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