Looking at the table..

[BroadstairsR 2,138]

Probably a bit too early to identify the team that falls through from the "pack" but Swansea seem to be deteriorating at a rate of knots. They were very poor against us and yesterday were given a bit of a roasting by Bournemouth and were probably fortunate to come out of that game with a point. Seven win less games for the Swans would seem to mark the end of "Swanselona," whilst Bournemouth demonstrate that they would have probably had a decent season if it were not for their catalogue of horrendous injuries.

Villa seem doomed already, Newcastle''s fortunes won''t likely change until they rid themselves of the hapless McClaren, whilst Sunderland''s situation would seem to require more than just a dose of the Big Sam magic.

Watford are my surprise team and continue to defy my expectations of them folding. Interestingly, Troy Deeney on MotD mentioned their three upcoming games against teams below them (including us) as being more significant determinants of their season than a defeat to Manchester United. We can but hope that they eventually fold for, although defensively strong, a couple of vital injuries could expose them.

Three obvious factors, in any order, will likely determine the unlucky three from us and this group.

The results of games within this mini-league, and we have done well so far in this respect with the exception of Newcastle.

Transfer window additions, and we live in hope that the defence can be strengthened. All these teams will spend big so let''s hope our dealings are the most pertinent.

Managerial changes, primarily at Newcastle, but may be at Swansea as well, whilst the rest would seem set for the campaign.

All obvious really, but absorbing nonetheless and continuing with Monday night''s game for Sunderland against Palace ( who might in the past have been candidates for the "one from the pack" category, but seem too good.)

[Fuzzar 1,702]

I see Watford and Swansea realistically as the only other clubs potentially in the mix with the current bottom five.

Our results against them, and some astute January additions, will probably determine our fate. I''m hopeful of staying up, but only that.

[unique 434]

Leicester''s late revival last season should be fresh in the memory of every football supporter to underline that it would be foolish to write off ANY team for certain relegation at this stage of the season.

[Van wink 2,994]

norfolk the table doesn''t lie indeed, but I''m looking at the points haul after thirteen games and IMO if we continue gaining/ dropping points at the rate we are now we will end up in the bottom three.

The argument that the table doesn''t lie brings back sad memories of Hughton''s last season when nearly all of us could see the writing on the wall well before we actually dropped into relegation position.

For me our record at picking up points over a period of several months is a better indication of our likely fortune than a snapshot of the table.

We failled to complete a competitive squad in the window and IMO it''s going to end up being very costly.

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="Vanwink"]norfolk the table doesn''t lie indeed, but I''m looking at the points haul after thirteen games and IMO if we continue gaining/ dropping points at the rate we are now we will end up in the bottom three.

The argument that the table doesn''t lie brings back sad memories of Hughton''s last season when nearly all of us could see the writing on the wall well before we actually dropped into relegation position.

For me our record at picking up points over a period of several months is a better indication of our likely fortune than a snapshot of the table.

We failled to complete a competitive squad in the window and IMO it''s going to end up being very costly.[/quote]

This is really a flacid argument - just as it was with Hughton.  We are in the position of being three points from the drop zone and three points from relative safety - as we were a lot of the time under Hughton.  In other words we are well poised to challenge the other teams in the bottom half, most of them who are in a similar position.  The negativity got out of control under Hughton and you will never convince me that the negative sentiment of fans and the negativity spread around on social media did not contribute to our demise under under him.  Negativity of supporters (whether at a match or just a generally)  affects players - ask any player.  Some people just don''t seem to get that, but this season the rumblings of negativity that started in some quarters, even before a ball was kicked, if we are not careful will grow and grow - at the very time we need the most support.   So just as things get difficult and we need supporters to support, from some quarters we start to get the opposite.  Concerned we all are, but the language of some is so tainted with failure it is almost as if that is what some people want.  Neil is no Hughton and has proved to us he has what it takes to be successful, give us the kind if football we all like to see - and that he is capable of adapting.  So please let us not go down this route of "sleepwalking into relegaton"  kind of talk.  We are less resourced than other clubs, but we are comptitive and we are in a battle. So accept it, enjoy it and don''t let yourself get negative about things - because it isn''t necessary! 

[Grant Holts Moustache 105]

Vanwink your argument that a snapshot of points picked up and dropped over a period of months loses any weight when you also apply that same logic to the teams below us and Swansea who are really struggling for form. It''s clear to see that we are in a battle to stay up and no doubt the January window will be an interesting one which will go somewhat towards determining how we fair for the rest of the campaign.

I will also say that Alex Neil seems to be the manager around that bottom area who is pragmatic enough to change approaches to gain the points needed where he sees fit. I am yet to see a game this season where I have thought we are not good enough to compete with other teams in this league. 2 or 3 quality additions in January and we may have that extra bit needed to turn a few losses to draws and draws to wins.

I would be more worried if I were a fan of Bournemouth whose manager seems determined to be a plucky Blackpool type team or Villa who have a squad that lacks any real quality and is spiralling out of control. Add Newcastle and Sunderland to that mix who seem full of mercenaries that are not fighting for the cause and have fan bases that will make it really hard for them to lift themselves from their current gloom and there is a real recipe that could leave a few big clubs having disastrous seasons. This was never going to be easy as frankly most clubs have more money and can pay bigger wages than we do. Finishing 17th is all we need this year and that will give this excellent young manager a chance to build further and start to add more Bradys and Mulumbus to the squad and give is a real chance of a long term stay in the league. In the mean time we have just got to enjoy the ride but maintain a sense of perspective. Our situation isn''t great but we were always going to lose more than we win. As it stands we are in the position we need to be at this stage. Outside the relegation places with a team and manager that is developing it''s own identity and making the most of the resources we have.

[Mr Angry 1,547]

Forget about this table, we need the Relegation Mini-League table to tell us where we really stand.

[Katie Borkins 1]

I''m on it. Like a scotch bonnet.

[HazzaJet 252]

I think some of us are taking things far too seriously. Yes we''ve haven''t picked up many points recently, but personally I don''t think we''ve done too badly - mean we were hammered on our visits to Liverpool, Man City and Chelsea weren''t we? No we weren''t, we picked up a point at Anfield, narrowly missed out on a point at The Etihad and lost by 1 goal at Stamford Bridge. Yes we were thrashed at Newcastle but their 4th goal came against the run of play and had we equalised instead of them extending their lead, I think we would have got something out of the game.

I feel our defence has also improved in recent games. I''m not we will definitely stay up but I feel the likelihood of our survival at the moment is far greater than most of us think. We just need to make sure we invest in some players, most importantly defenders in January - there''s already talk that we''re tracking Ron Vlaar, who rejected a new contract offer at Aston Villa in the summer and is a free agent

All I can say is either be more positive or stop supporting Norwich and be a glory hunter instead (support one of the big teams)

[Van wink 2,994]

I will be supporting the team through thick and thin LDC as I hope you will. I will also post my opinion on the forum.

I should have thought that you would have learned a lesson from your unflinching support of Hughton when the writing was on the wall for so long.

BTW I am in no way trying to compare Hughton with AN, I am merely trying illustrate my point that the table a this point is not always the best indicator of how the season is likely to pan out.

[nutty nigel 7,513]

Of course the most indisputable indicator will be the final table. But until that is known what is a better indicator of our likely fate than the current league table? Is it prophesies of doom?

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="Vanwink"]I will be supporting the team through thick and thin LDC as I hope you will. I will also post my opinion on the forum.

I should have thought that you would have learned a lesson from your unflinching support of Hughton when the writing was on the wall for so long.

BTW I am in no way trying to compare Hughton with AN, I am merely trying illustrate my point that the table a this point is not always the best indicator of how the season is likely to pan out.[/quote]

Yes and it was the way the rats deserted the sinking ship that really annoyed me.  A time and need for the most positive response to the tightness of the league that second year was met with almost total negativity on here.  Nice one. 

[Van wink 2,994]

Clearly the fans fault again LDC

[Fuzzar 1,702]

Honestly LDC, stop trying to pick a fight.

[BroadstairsR 2,138]

The "rat" at that time was McNasty, IMO, who, by sacking Hughton when he did in favour of the inexperienced (and later to be proved ineffective) Adams virtually sealed our fate.

That, and nothing the Hoots did, was the worst decision made at Carrow Road that season.

My personal negativity reading went above 140.

[Funny old game 0]

Have spent a dull Sunday afternoon looking at premier league tables after 13 games for the past 20 years which is a good indicator although of course not conclusive. This time last year Leicester were bottom with 10 points, ie double Villa''s current total. Only Sunderland back in the day had 5 points and were relegated in that season. Teams like Sheffield Wed, Bradford, Derby and Ipswich, all of whom were dire and went down, had a minimum of 7 points. On that basis Villa and Sunderland have it all to do to stay up. As I say only a pointer but knowing history often helps to predict the future.. So on that basis we have to finish above one other team.

[BroadstairsR 2,138]

Interesting that and by all indications Aston Villa are all but doomed.

Their current points tally is an historical disaster and I suppose we have to thank our own Messiah for his part in bringing that sad state of affairs about ...... but that''s another story.

[Katie Borkins 1]

Bournemouth are already down, I think. See the relegation mini league for evidence.

Villa are scoring well against the weak teams and have many games remaining. Sunderland are poor and one North East team will be dropping this season, if not two.

I said we would be 15th and stand by that prediction.

[Funny old game 0]

Villa''s win at Bournemouth was the first game of the season which must seem to them like another lifetime. Their fourth point was at home to Sunderland. Other than that they gave scored one point from 11 games. Teams still have to pick up,some points from the other games, something both they and Sunderland have spectacturly failed on. Again an indicator but only one of several which have to be looked at together to give a fuller picture.