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How do we beat Arsenal?

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Defend deep, allow  them the ball like we did Swansea, or a high pressing putting them under pressure the whole game?We let Swansea have the ball, knowing they wouldn''t do much with it, but if we do that against Arsenal, I think we will be punished.  Certainly, the high pressing, taking the game to Arsenal, will be more

entertaining with more chances at both ends,  but would it ultimately

give us the best chance of a win?  On balance, I would like to see us revert back to the high pressing game and getting in amongst the Arsenal players as a Wenger team often don''t appear to "like it up ''em".  Or is there a third way? 

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I''d do exactly what we did against Chelsea (in terms of mentality and setup).

The only difference being that when we do break out, that we actually enjoy the possession we have and don''t waste it. That was the most disappointing element of Saturday''s showing. I thought defensively and in terms of the shape they were good - although I only saw it in the ground and I haven''t watched it back.

The interesting bit will be how we use Redmond (if at all). I was intrigued by the idea of playing Redmond at number 10 for large parts of the game. The thinking was imaginative and aimed to get him driving at Terry and Zouma in the central areas and expose a slight lack of pace from the pair of them.

Unfortunately, he doesn''t quite have the correct appreciation of pass at times (which you need in that position) and can give the ball away at very inopportune moments. In particular, Mulumbu was absolutely furious when Redmond played a suicidal square ball when Norwich had large numbers of men committed ahead of the ball and quite rightly so. Mulumbu had to take a card to stop a dangerous breakaway.

However, Arsenal have got Mertesacker in their back 4 and given his lack of mobility I wonder if it''s worth letting Redmond have another stab at that position on Sunday (despite him not having a distinguished game against Chelsea) because Mertesacker really doesn''t have a lot of mobility and if we can get Redmond in one versus one situations against him it could be profitable.

However, it''s very hard to predict what Norwich are going to do from game to game now. That can only be a positive and means that we''re not easy to prepare to play against.

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As jacko said, the defensive resolve against Chelsea (and Man C and Swansea) have been genereally good, but we are not able to keep possession when we (finally) win the ball back. This invites wave after wave of attackes against us, and sooner or later, someting breaks.

Not keeping possession when we got the ball is making it more difficult for us, both mentally and physically, as it is hard chasing the ball for 90 minutes.

I think Jerome will do the donkey job from the start vs Arsenal. Lots of off-ball running, pressing, harassing, and then Mbokani comes on after the break.

Wes has to play, and I am willing to sacrifice Howson for that. Howson is not himself recently, despite the winner vs Swansea, and he is moved about a lot, not finding his position.

Redmond has to play due to possible pace on the break, and Wes needs to play due to us having a chance to keep possession and get a breather sometimes,

To beat the big teams, you need the rub of the green. Seeing WBA beat Arsenal was just as you would expect. Deep defending, riding their luck more than once, scoring 2 goals from 1 shot on target (the other an Arteta own goal), and the constant moaning from the terrible Pulis seems to help them every time.

The guy expects his team to score from nothing, and the oppositon to miss 98% of their chances. Makes me sick.

Something like:

Ruddy

Wisdom-Bennett-Bassong-Olsson

Mulumbu-Tettey

Redmond-Wes-Brady

Jerome

or

Ruddy

Wisdom-Bennett-Bassong

Mulumbu-Tettey

Redmond-Dorrans/Howson-Brady

Wes

Jerome

Arsenal got quite a few injuries these days. Coquelin got injured vs WBA, and they have a quite lengthy injury list.

Aaron Ramsey, Francis Coquelin, Mikel Arteta, Jack Wilshere and Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain are all out. Lots of midfielder absentees.

If both their defensive midfielders are out, maybe Howson is a better choice than Dorrans in the above setup, and it certainly gives an incentive to play Wes.

I am not sure Alex Neil will play 3 at the back though. Giroud is quite mobile, and puts himself about, and with roamers like Sanchez, Walcott, Campbell, etc, it could be difficult.

But if Arsenal are as depleted in midfield as the current injury situation implies, maybe AN will go for a more traditional setup, 4-4-1-1, with Wes in the side, as he would expect us to have a bit more possession than normal against Arsenal.

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Hope Arsenal have one of their off days and that by some miracle the ref doesn''t give them absolutely everything, although seeing as we''re playing a big London club with a manager that tries to blame the weather on the ref''s I''m not hopeful on the second part.

Sit deep and counter with

------------------Ruddy---------------

Wisdom Bennett Bassong Olsson

Howson Mulumbu Tettey Brady

---------------Hoolahan---------

---------------Mbokani

Redmond is off form atm but always seems to make a huge impact as a sub so Wes starts for me to retain the ball further up the pitch and to try to give some support to Mbokani.

Howson is on the right because I wouldn''t start Redmond and Hoolahan together and Arsenal will play narrow, he''ll basically just be a right sided CM anyway

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Most of Arsenals quick players are out injured so that perhaps changes things as they are less of a threat on the break. I also feel if you let Cazorla, Ozil and Sanchez have the ball too much in our final third they will open us up. The score line flattered us a bit on Saturday and I would not want to see us employ the same tactics again.

I think we need to bully them in midfield and try and starve them of possession in our half. Tettey and Mulumbu to start if both fit. No O''Neil

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I wish it was that simple, I doubt we''ll be set up to go an outscore Arsenal - a bit of a problem with our set up at the moment. Yes we were probably good for a point against Chelsea, but if we''d have scored it wouldn''t have mattered. I''d like to see us give it a bit more of a go - I thought on the whole we did this better against Chelsea than against Swansea so there''s an improvement being made. Who knows if we had been given that penalty!

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Same as against Chelsea but swap O''Neill for Tettey and Redmond for Hoolahan.

On Saturday we effectively played a 4-4-2 which I think caused most of our problems. Nathan can be a dangerous player but not as a No10 in a central role, he was pretty much out of the game for large swathes and not contributing much to the rearguard action, also wasting balls when there was the sniff of a break.

To me it meant the two central midfielders did not have the confidence to follow their Chelsea counterparts when they were playing their one/twos round the corners of our box. They got into dangerous positions too often for my liking and had Costa been on form and in better positions we''d have got stuffed.

Wes should offer us a bit more there, he gets a bit more stuck in than NR, keep hold of the ball as well and hopefully create better chances for DM/CJ. The other thing Chelsea were excellent at was pressing us- Matic and Fabregas squeezed any space when we did get the ball, not sure that Arsenal will do that to the same degree so Wes may have some joy.

I thought that other than the chipped ball which led to the goal our CBs were excellent. RM nowhere near this game please!!

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Certainly good arguments for having Redmond on the bench from the start. Always an impact from the bench, so often underperforming when starting.

What about VOO to start as RM. If we need energy in that position, VOO is a better option than Howson. And VOO needs a chance to play soon. Not getting a sniff at the moment, and I dont think he is much worse than Howson.

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Vadis as right midfielder as opposed to Howson, who isn''t any worse than him?

Ignoring the fact that Vadis isn''t a right sided midfield player and has never played for us there, what are you basing your assumption on that he''s the same level as Howson?

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A positive result is certainly not beyond us, but we will have to be focused for the full 90 minutes - Arsenal seem likely to have some players out which could help us, but supporters need to be aware that the replacements won''t be shoddy, many will be internationals - that is just a fact of life at this level when playing the bigger sides.

I think our tactics from the last few games have been absolutely spot-on, we have been unfortunate to come away from difficult trips to Etihad and Stamford Bridge with nothing to show. Hopefully AN can get it right and we can get the reward we deserve this time.

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[quote user="grefstad"]Certainly good arguments for having Redmond on the bench from the start. Always an impact from the bench, so often underperforming when starting.

What about VOO to start as RM. If we need energy in that position, VOO is a better option than Howson. And VOO needs a chance to play soon. Not getting a sniff at the moment, and I dont think he is much worse than Howson.[/quote]
Clearly Howson is better than Voo, or Voo would have got a game by now. The fact Dorrans is picked ahead of him yet Dorrans couldn''t get in the team when Howson was playing poorly suggest Vadis has a long way to go yet.
As for the OP, there''s arguments for playing either style you''ve suggested. I think the West Brom game shows that with a bit of luck sitting back and asking Arsenal to break through can work but they have so much more quality than Swansea it''s a risk. Arsenal will probably be spending this week working on breaking down defensive units like they couldn''t against West Brom, so maybe an up-and-at-''em approach will work.

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It''s a tough task, we have to be tight. I think we should press them in our half only, but absolutely swarm them when we do. Play a bit of anti football too, as they hate that especially with a few bumps. Get tackes in early against Sanchez, as if we back off mesmerised (a la Suarez) he''ll score loads. If giroud starts, we should look to wind him up as he may get himself sent off.

Going forward, I think we need a bit of width to pull mertesacker about bit. To hopefully set up space in the centre for a few one on ones with Redders or Hoolahan etc. End product will be vital.

Does anyone else get the impression that Arsenal lose close games? They like teams to roll over and get their bellies tickled. If we are genuinely competitive they might lose the stomach for it.

Oh yeah, and score more goals.

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[quote user="Branston Pickle"]A positive result is certainly not beyond us, but we will have to be focused for the full 90 minutes - Arsenal seem likely to have some players out which could help us, but supporters need to be aware that the replacements won''t be shoddy, many will be internationals - that is just a fact of life at this level when playing the bigger sides.

I think our tactics from the last few games have been absolutely spot-on, we have been unfortunate to come away from difficult trips to Etihad and Stamford Bridge with nothing to show. Hopefully AN can get it right and we can get the reward we deserve this time.[/quote]

I don''t really feel we were unfortunate to come away from Chelsea with nothing. Yes we should have had a penalty and the Bassong chance before half time was also a good one so we could and should have scored but really they should have scored four or five and had they actually taken a few shots or had players in form or with higher confidence then hey would have done. I think the fact it was only 1 on saturday was as much down to luck and good goalkeeping as anything else. of course you need that when you play the big guns!

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Keep it tight, players work their behinds off and most importantly.............. you get lucky.orThe opposition have a real off day and most importantly ............................. you get lucky.

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[quote user="Wes Hooly Fan"]Vadis as right midfielder as opposed to Howson, who isn''t any worse than him?

Ignoring the fact that Vadis isn''t a right sided midfield player and has never played for us there, what are you basing your assumption on that he''s the same level as Howson?[/quote]

Clearly, in his time here, hampered with injuries, VOO has not had the chance to show his worth yet. VOO is a central mid, box-to-box player. At least thats what he was at Brugge.

Howson is no more a right mid than VOO is. VOO is rightfooted, Howson too, and thats about it. None of them got any pace to burn, but VOO is a more solid unit, who should be up for a fight if he gets a chance.

Howson has been poorer than expected for me this season. Dwindles out of the game too much. Did so at Chelsea too, and I can see the same vs Arsenal.

I want a man who gets stuck in a bit more than Howson currently does. VOO to start, and Howson to come in for him, if AN sees Redmond as sub for Wes.

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As lowly said we should set up a similar way to what we have and press in our own half. Pressing too high against a technical team like Arsenal plays into their hands as they have the quality to avoid the high press and then it''s very difficult. Kick them off the park and rile them up as it will frustrate them and their manager. They don''t have an out and out goal scorer so we will always have a chance if we keep it tight and try and hit them with pacey wing play and try and expose their high full backs.

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[quote user="Yellowforever"]Sign vardy, my cousin is a gooner ,said he loves it when teams like city come up as it''s where they get easy points from ! .[/quote]

 

So he loved it when they came to CR in Hughton''s first season ?  Perhaps not.

 

Truth is that Arsenal have some outrageously talented players but are the big team most likely to drop points against a team like us. Essential to keep it tight and not over commit and give them loads of space, but with Wes in the side at home we should be able to keep possession a bit more.  If we work hard and our players are on their game, the ref doesn''t favour them too much and we get a bit of luck, this is a side we have beaten recently and can do again, home or away.

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ps that should read "not give them space" just to be clear.

 

I will never forget the game at their place when Turner gave us the lead and we were in front at the 80th minute. They were running out of ideas and we could have got the win if the ref hadn''t given them a ridiculous penalty.   But that''s the way it goes in the Prem.

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[quote user="The ghost of Michael Theoklitos"][quote user="Wiz"]Simple.........employ an experienced manager.[/quote]Best of luck with your fishing. Hope you get a bite soon.[/quote] He never responds to questions asked of him so me asking for a shortlist will be ignored but i will however try.Wiz can you supply a list of suitable candidates ?

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[quote user="TIL 1010"][quote user="The ghost of Michael Theoklitos"][quote user="Wiz"]Simple.........employ an experienced manager.[/quote]Best of luck with your fishing. Hope you get a bite soon.[/quote] He never responds to questions asked of him so me asking for a shortlist will be ignored but i will however try.Wiz can you supply a list of suitable candidates ?[/quote]

It would have been Paul Lambert Til but now it would have to be Brendan Rodgers or Bruce.

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So no doubt it was Lambert''s record at Villa which showed how a more experienced manager with a better squad would fare ?

 

Or Steve Bruce doing so well in a relegation fight last season ?

 

Or was it Rodgers with his (by all accounts) massive ego which swung it for him ?

 

I''ll prefer us to stick with AN, thanks.

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[quote user="Wiz"][quote user="TIL 1010"][quote user="The ghost of Michael Theoklitos"][quote user="Wiz"]Simple.........employ an experienced manager.[/quote]Best of luck with your fishing. Hope you get a bite soon.[/quote] He never responds to questions asked of him so me asking for a shortlist will be ignored but i will however try.Wiz can you supply a list of suitable candidates ?[/quote]

It would have been Paul Lambert Til but now it would have to be Brendan Rodgers or Bruce.[/quote]So you want two recently failed Premeirship managers in Lambert took Villa to be brink of relegation and Rodgers who spent literally hundreds of millions at Liverpool and failed miserably or Steve Bruce who has had more clubs than Tiger Woods.If you seriously think they can do a better job than Alex Neil then i am glad you get no nearer Carrow Road than a live stream !

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