Whats the point Worthy?

[Morph 19]

I have to agree with some here that you''re being a little harsh 1stWiz. That said let''s look at where we stand on the squad front with my ordering on who is the choice for each position.

GK: Green, Gallacher, Ward
RB: Louis-Jean, Helveg
CB: Shackell, Doherty, Charlton, Helveg, Fleming
LB: Drury, Charlton, Brennan
LM: Huckerby, Jonson(?), McVeigh, Brennan
CM: Safri, Francis, Jarrett
RM: Jonson, Henderson
ST: Ashton, McKenzie, Thorne, Jarvis, Henderson

As it stands the position that I see we need some cover for assuming all the others stay is RM/CM. A RB/CB would also prove to be a useful acquisition.

If Helveg goes then another RB come CB is needed for definite.

If Francis goes a player who can double up as a RM/CM would definitely be needed.

To bring in three players for nothing is pretty good dealing by Worthington and whilst they aren''t exactly inspiring signings they do solidify the squad he had.

Now, Fleming out for a younger improved model would be top of my wish list.

[First Wizard 0]

All I will say on this now, is lets pray that no serious injury befalls the holy trinity!. Or that Leon is sold!.

Jim: I said I''ve give Worthy support for the first 10 games, the last time I looked, we hadn''t even kicked off for the first game, I said nowt about preseason!.

JC: As a newbie, please grasp this fact quickly, if anyone wants to moan on here, they bloody well can, unless of course, the moderators say otherwise, and you don''t come in that select group, so live with it!.

To All: I''m not Worthy bashing again, I''m pi**ed off thats all.

Other teams, are building for a serious push at promotion, and whilst fit, our forward line should cause havoc in this division, but throw in an injury or two, like last year, and IMO, these new signing''s will not aid us in the least.

Our defence has not been improved that much (although Jarrett will help a bit) but it now looks like Helveg may go to Germany.

And I see our defence as the big Achilles heel here. Now if my concern in this smatter makes me a moaner, Worthy basher and downright nasty bloke, then so be it.

I''m only concerned about City, I''m not concerned what people or posters think of me, so I shall carry on with my stand on this.

At this point in time, City are not a complete side and are not good enough to bounce straight back up, IMHO!. 

[westoncanary. 0]

Wiz, there is still a over a month to go before the new season. Stop panicking mate!!  We are in a very healthy position IMHO, and we know that Worthy wants a few more new faces, he is proving to be a shrewd manager and he keeps his cards close to his chest. 

Last week we had signed nobody, now we have 3 more very capable players to bolster a very capable squad.  Be happy for now and let''s see what else happens.

[StevenageFan 0]

and at this point in time, their is still plenty of time for us to become a complete side ready for a title push, surely your balls see that Wiz?

I think what the more positive of us are saying is that we have signed 3 very good CCC players for nothing at all, zilch, zero, £0.00.   We know the board said Worthy could have all sales money towards his purchase kitty which could already have something in it on top of the £100,000.00 from Sven, so there will definitely be more signings to come.   Be patient.

[We need a Manager 0]

We have the best strikeforce in the division without doubt, but the midfield lacks any creativity and the defence is at best ordinary . To everyone feeling we will walk this league without strengthening i just say this , how many of last seasons top six in the Championship would have went to Fulham and got beat 6-0 in a must win match ?

[Jim Smith 2,317]

The defence is not ordinary at this level. Assuming Helveg goes a defence of Louis-Jean, Shackell, Doherty and Drury would do the business and both Flem and Charlton could step in if need be.

I agree that we could do with another central midfielder, a right midfielder and another right back and I think that is what we will get once we have got some money in for Francis.

[Brum Uni Canary 0]

I was going to say something similar to Morph''s post. Worthy has actually done some good business with proven Fizzy League players for very little money and can still bring in others with the money he has saved from the budget.

I strongly believe that our main weaknesses now lie with the midfield. If Francis goes, we will definintely need another player for the middle of the park, but at the moment I see the wings as the critical positions. Huckerby is likely to be a dead cert for LM, but what happens on the right?! We have Jonson and Henderson (who call themselves strikers) and Helveg. None of these guys are a genuine wide player. The problem last season was the wingers pushing up too high and leaving the full backs exposed. I would like to see a hard-working right sided midfielder who can put in crosses and work hard up and down the line (preferably for a bit of money) and use the players I mentioned earlier in their preferred positions.
Melanie might hate me for this, but I think Henderson should be put out on loan for a while with a recall clause as there is enough cover now up front and hopefully with another player brought in on the right to not fully require his services for part of the season.  

[DumbleDelia is Magic 0]

The point is Wiz that we need a fourth striker.  Someone who is free, has a good track record and knows the division fits the bill perfectly.  Who else could we have attracted who knows they will sit on the bench?

[Mook 0]

I think something that winds me up about this situation is that Worthy is doing a Megson, rather than a Redknapp.

Smeggy brought in a big bunch of players good enough for championship but not enough for the prem. Lo and behold, they got promoted and then struggled desperately ''til they got some much needed quality.

Whilst I agree that the players we have signed are good enough for Championship football, so what?

If we''re planning (and I assume we are) to bounce straight up, that''s another 6 players that can''t cut it in the top flight and we all know what happens then, don''t we......? They will all play 30-odd games, underperform, not get dropped, and then we''ll release them in 2007!

[Campbell 0]

We''re building a squad for a real shot at automatic promotion, it''s that simple...

We haven''t let a first team player go yet, so why would we need to sign any first team quality players? We''ve got great back up and I would rather have our squad than any other in this division.

Just try to remember again that to sign the players we have would have cost close to £1m...so the fact we''ve got them on free transfers is a major coup. Just because we haven''t spent £500k on three players to bulster the squad doesn''t mean we haven''t signed quality players at this level...because we have.

All those doubters will see after 10-15 games the type of quality we''ve brought in to the squad...so until then, please stop moaning

[Danny Gwww.rudeboyz.co.uk 0]

[quote]What''s the bloody point Worthy?, Now we''re getting 32 year old Cardiff player Peter Thorne on another free, now I''m starting to get seriously nervous!. Another move in the right direction, yeah rig...[/quote]

Will you eat your hat if we bounce back up then 1st wizard ???? i am sure we all will have a good laugh at it when it happens......

[nolegs 0]

[quote]All I will say on this now, is lets pray that no serious injury befalls the holy trinity!. Or that Leon is sold!. Jim: I said I''ve give Worthy support for the first 10 games, the last time I look...[/quote]

Sorry Whiz I really can''t see what you''ve got to be p****d off about ,unlike a lot of relegated teams whatever happens we have kept the nucleus of the team ,we are making squad additions,not asset stripping to pay debts,the only people leaving are those who want to, whom you so eloquently told in earlier posts to"sod off"anyway I really think a trip to the doctors for a "positive" pill might be in order.

[NavMan 0]

Sorry Wiz can''t agree with you here - we have two young strikers in Ashton and McKenzie and in my opinion somebody with experience was needed in order to help the young two and as valuable back up in a league with so many games.  At the end of the day we have brought in three players and received 100,000.00 for doing so.  Cant be bad in my book.

[3pmkickoff 0]

I''m very happy with the Thorne signing, having seen him play a few times I think we''ve got a quality player with experience for nowt. I''m willing to give the other two a chance but I''m sure Worthy will have a few more to announce in the next few weeks, Even as it stands we have a stronger squad than the promotion season

[First Wizard 0]

[quote]We''re building a squad for a real shot at automatic promotion, it''s that simple... We haven''t let a first team player go yet, so why would we need to sign any first team quality players? We''ve got gr...[/quote]

Are you sitting down Campbell and others?.

Good.

There has been some very good, and constructive replies on here, even you, Campbell, and I''ve listerned very carefully to you all.

I may have been hasty with this thread, okay I was, yes, that''s not a misprint, I was, hasty with this thread.

Maybe crafty old Nigel''s holding cash back for a ''big push'' in January?.

The one thing The Wiz can do is admit when he''s been wrong, and your thoughtful debate has helped achieved this, no slanging matche''s, just healthy debate.

So to Mr Thorne and Nigel Worthington, whom I owe an apology, I apologise to both of you.

But as for eating my hat peeps, do you mind?, I''m still choking on my wand from the last time I was wrong!.     

 

[Alex Harvey-Jones 0]

[quote]What''s the bloody point Worthy?, Now we''re getting 32 year old Cardiff player Peter Thorne on another free, now I''m starting to get seriously nervous!. Another move in the right direction, yeah rig...[/quote]

I understand your point Wiz - I was initially unimpressed when I heard we''d signed a 32 year old but having thought about it further I don''t think we would have found a better third choice striker. Ok we could have splashed the cash but not many strikers who are proven in this division would have wanted to sit on the bench. I think it could turn out to be a shrewd piece of business. Even if we only get one season from him the most we could pay is £200 000! He is also good enough to put pressure of Mackenzie which is always healthy. At 32 Thorne would not have signed if he didn''t believe he was good enough to challenge for a starting place which is a good sign! I think if we''re going to splash the cash it should be on midfield or defence rather than on a striker who is going to warm the bench. Our strike force looks very healthy but we need another defender and a midfielder - esp if Francis goes. If we don''t spend any money there then I will be a bit worried/ annoyed!

Anyway we''ve signed him, there''s no going back so we might as well all get behind him and help him to settle in! Let''s not moan at least until he''s had a proper chance to prove what he can do!!!!

[el chorizo!!! 0]

Lets add a new forum to the front page.

We already have:

"have your say"

"transfer rumours" and

"noticeboard"

lets add another called "1st Wiz rants and raves"

It´s difficult to say which would be more popular!

Although he can be damn right rude at times you have to give him credit in his ability to wind you lot up!, and it promotes probably more discussion than most threads - so long may it continue

[FatMan Fat 0]

I haven''t posted for ages because I wanted to see if I could stay positive about Worthington. Well, I can''t

FFS - what do we need another striker for when we have Ashton, McKenzie, Huckerby, Henderson and Jarvis? I suppose it is a balance for the four goalkeepers in 5 a side kickabouts

Where is the defensive cover that we so patently need along with cover for right/central and left midfield?????

No doubt they will be here before kick-off????

[king of latvia 0]

[quote]What''s the bloody point Worthy?, Now we''re getting 32 year old Cardiff player Peter Thorne on another free, now I''m starting to get seriously nervous!. Another move in the right direction, yeah rig...[/quote]

well here we go again the new season is nearlly here and we a moaning already.wizard why do you bother going to games and coming on theses boards im sure you real name is mark lawrence.

[Northern Canary 0]

Sorry, i agree that we should be getting younger players. but a free striker imo was a good option. Theres no way he will be picked above the other too so why spend money on a player who wont be playing. I do think we should start spending a bit more now though

[Northern Canary 0]

also, we have let lots of players go for free. So buying more, better players, for free is fantastic

[First Wizard 0]

[quote]well here we go again the new season is nearlly here and we a moaning already.wizard why do you bother going to games and coming on theses boards im sure you real name is mark lawrence.[/quote]

Ah, but stroppy sire:

The big difference between Lawro and me is this: I will cheer and support Thorne and the lads when they''re playing for City.

He won''t!.. 

[Evil Monkey 52]

[quote]I haven''t posted for ages because I wanted to see if I could stay positive about Worthington. Well, I can''t FFS - what do we need another striker for when we have Ashton, McKenzie, Huckerby, Hender...[/quote]

Well welcome back FatMan Fat, but I''ve got to argue with your thinking that Hendo and Jarvis are good enough striking coverage...

Jarve, maybe yes, this could be the season he really finds his feet, but Hendo?!? Seriously?!? As cover for Deano?!? Or Leon?!? Or Hucks?!?!

Seriously?!?!?!?!?

Thorne is a good signing, in my own humble opinion, good experienced cover with a good goals-to-games ratio, and with a desire to push for a place, rather than a bench-warmer.  And for free!

I love Nige and his shrewd signings... three very good players, bugger all outlay! No matter what you think of Nige, the facts do not lie...

[First Wizard 0]

[quote]well here we go again the new season is nearlly here and we a moaning already.wizard why do you bother going to games and coming on theses boards im sure you real name is mark lawrence.[/quote]

Ah, but stroppy sire!.

The big diference between Lawro and me is this:

I will cheer Thorne and the lads when they play for

City.

He won''t!    

[Northern Canary 0]

Other teams are building a squad for a promotion push, yes.

BUT - we already have a squad for a promotion push!

These are good players who imo can get into the team. They are free and add to a small squad. We let players go for free and we have got better one for free. Great business

[Stephen Frys Evil Twin 0]

I''d like to stress that the transfer window isn''t closed yet, we haven''t spent a single penny of our transfer budget and the expected departures of Francis and Helveg haven''t happened yet. If/when they do, we''ll have at least an extra £2m in our transfer kitty (on top of what we already have) to look for the inspiring signings, such as a creative midfielder, a quick, skilful right winger, a good young right back etc.

So my the main thing is not to panic! I''m sure, 1st Wiz, that when the above happens you will look back on this thread and think "What was I thinking? I was premature in my judgment of our transfers" and such like.

As for the three signings so far, I think they will mainly figure on the bench, unless injuries, or superb performances in the reserves/training change that. But, they are GOOD back-up. They would walk into the first teams of most clubs outside of the top 8 in this league, and they cost us nothing(!). How can they be bad signings if they cost us nothing?

Worthy is not only looking to build a team for a promotion push, he is looking to build a SQUAD for a promotion push. So far I think he is doing a good job.

There''s still time for the signings that will make the rest of the league sit up and take notice, and I believe they will come.

[Morph 19]

[quote]Other teams are building a squad for a promotion push, yes. BUT - we already have a squad for a promotion push! These are good players who imo can get into the team. They are free and add to a small...[/quote]

Northern, not wishing to divert the point of this thread but I think there are too many posters on here who seem to believe that City are going to make an easy job of promotion this coming season. Sorry folks but it ain''t going to happen. And don''t go spouting the old line "Worthy''s done it before, he''ll do it again". It''s a tough division to clamber out of and there''s a good few teams who are more than in with a shout themselves.As it currently stands I believe the squad is down in size on what we had last season and as a few have pointed out there are still deficiencies that need to be addressed.Going out: Mulryne, Edworthy, Svensson, Holt, BentleyComing in: Louis-Jean, Jarrett, Thorne.So we''re still down on what we lost although some would argue that what we gained was better than the sum of the losses. However, the point is that the squad has shrunk rather than grown.I seriously don''t believe that Worthy has yet addressed the issue of the defence. So many of the posters so critical of the centre back partnering in the second half of last season all seem to believe that it''s going to be alright this season. That may be true, but it might have been a good time to try a different, younger combination. I don''t see it happening.We still have two potential squad losses to come in the form of Francis and Helveg leaving us even shorter for cover in midfield and right back - perhaps that''s where he''s going to put Fleming....

[Northern Canary 0]

[quote]Northern, not wishing to divert the point of this thread but I think there are too many posters on here who seem to believe that City are going to make an easy job of promotion this coming season. Sor...[/quote]

i said we have a team for a promotion push. That doesnt mean we will walk it but i do believe we are one of the better teams.

[FatMan Fat 0]

The truth is that whilst we are looking strong in certain areas, in other areas we are woefully weak.  Yet again, as last year, we have no "balance" in the team/squad and I guess that is what frustrates some of us posters who are seen as "negative".

I see little point in signing a player because it is a "good business" deal when we have glaring problems in other areas of the squad that have not, as yet, been addressed,

If we had suitable cover at right back, central defence, right midfield, central midfield, and dare I say it left midfield, ( Hucks is a striker not a midfield player), then signing Thorne could be seen as "good business".

With FOUR goalkeepers we look OK in that area. When Helveg goes, which he will, we have only one recognised right back.  Everyone knows that the central defensive positions MUST be strengthened. Left back seems OK with Drury, Charlton and possibly Brennan. Right midfield? Jonsson (not a midfielder) and McVeigh who is on the transfer list! Central midfield - Jarrett and Safri, after Francis wends his way away from Carrow Road, - is not strong enough, especially as Safri is yellowcard/injury prone. Left midfield is Hucks, who is a striker, Brennan (who is clearly out of favour with Worthington) and McVeigh. Up front we are good with Ashton, McKenzie, Hucks, Henderson, Jarvis and now Thorne.

To me, that is NOT a well balanced squad that can withstand the pressures of the number of games that have to be played in the Championship plus any Cup matches that we might have. It needs new signings before the season begins in the crucial areas of weakness.

IPSO FACTO I don''t get that Worthington has done a good job with this season''s signings - yet.

 

[StevenageFan 0]

The point is Fat Man, and you have made it yourself - YET!!!!!

There is still plenty of time to strengthen in the areas you are worried about, so why moan now?   If we haven''t strengthened in 5 weeks then let the moaning flow freely.

The thing that really gets me is whenever we make a signing the moaners flock out to criticise.  If they were picking apart the pros and cons of the player in question that would fine, but they actually moan about what Worthy hasn''t done when there is still weeks to do that!!!