Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Cobain18

Expectations

Recommended Posts

I''ve read so many comments on this board today about the personnel, board or managerial team not being good enough. The only conclusion I can draw is that people had unrealistic expectations before the season stared.

If we were to a analyse each of the above, my conclusions would be as follows:

THE BOARD: the board have a responsibility to the shareholders, fans and anyone else associated with the club to ensure that we are in a good position financially, while trying to progress the club on a footballing sense. They have done that in the last few years by putting us in a better financial state than we were previously (particularly in league one) and turning Norwich City into a top championship/lower positioned premier league club. Any expectation for the board to spend more in conjunction with our revenue seems unreasonable and would repeat mistakes we''ve made in the past

THE MANAGERIAL TEAM

We have one of the brightest young managers in the game; evidenced by his record at both Hamilton and his ability shown in the championship (playoff final and promotion from an unlikely position). The manager may have wanted a few more players on a higher wage but that will come from steady progression as we have seen in the last few years, not an irresponsible transfer policy. The suggestion that we sack the manager seems naive at best. To draw parallels with Hughton isn''t accurate as he had a completely different interpretation of how football should be played and did not show the same willingness to change his philosophy for the good of the football club as Neil has. If we were to sack Neil, it would de-stabilise the club - I was in favour of sacking Hughton a long time before we did but you need someone better to come in as showed when Adams took the reigns. I haven''t seen any suggestions for a replacement, I''m of the opinion we have the best manager available we for Norwich at this moment in time and if we do go down (worst case scenario) he is the best man to take us back up (this would all be part of the steady responsible growth strategy that the board have employed, alluded to above.) Driving the managerial team out is not in the best interests of the club although unfortunately, as with any club may in part, be in the fans'' hands

THE PLAYERS

Opinion from some on the board seems to be that we don''t have the players to stay up. We''re in a relegation battle, we were always going to be in a relegation battle; we have just been promoted. I''m not sure what the expectations of some fans were. Looking at the signings made, I don''t think we''ve made a poor signing; yes there are other positions that could have been strengthened but we have to be realistic, you can''t always get the players you want, especially in our position. The fundamental question though - is our team significantly worse than our rivals? No, I don''t think so; this is evidenced by how close the bottom 6 are in respect of points.

In conclusion, I really hope a vocal minority don''t turn on the players, board or the managerial team. It wouldn''t be in the best interests of the club. I''m sure this post will fall on deaf ears in some cases but I hope it convinces a few that actually; in the long term, we''re in a good position to progress as a club, we''re just not necessarily going to have instant success as we don''t have (probably due to our location), an investor with lots of money with the club''s best interests at heart.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Indulging post Colbain, and I do agree with it to a long extant, especially wrt the board. But form tells the truth. 1 win in 10 is dreadful, 1 win in 11 is drastic. Everton is so so important.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Agreed, nothing I''ve written above is supposed to excuse our form or mistakes to date this season. It''s just there to highlight that with a longer term view; I''m not sure what we should be doing differently and calling for a change is, to me at least, not the answer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There is financial prudence and then there is being overly timid and miserly. Our spend was the lowest of any promoted club in recent year- despite £100 million for winning playoff. That is just barmy. And, in any case, it was blunder not prudence as witnessed by the stupid and desperate last day antics when we were clearly desperate and flinging bids left, right and centre. The Window was a mess and we obviously had not done be homework in advance.

That is on the Board and the scouts

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
A very well balanced realistic post.  My expectations are now that we will be playing Championship football next season, which is very frustrating given the relatively low standard of the Premier League this season.I guess we have to accept that we''ll always be a ''yo-yo'' team but it didn''t need to be like this. Potentially looking at lost revenue of around £110m by getting relegated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Excellent well balanced post, keeps a good perspective on things.

Have to say i was very disappointed with some Norwich fans yesterday, a couple near us just venting hatred at Grabban from the warm up / shooting practice until he was replaced in the 2nd half, not healthy, we are in it together, trust the manager and support whatever players he puts out there.

Great post, there is hope !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There are several championship clubs that out spent is in the summer. I''m sorry but the boards failings in the transfer window has handicapped the manager and can''t be defended.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote user="Dean Coneys boots"]There is financial prudence and then there is being overly timid and miserly. Our spend was the lowest of any promoted club in recent year- despite £100 million for winning playoff. That is just barmy. And, in any case, it was blunder not prudence as witnessed by the stupid and desperate last day antics when we were clearly desperate and flinging bids left, right and centre. The Window was a mess and we obviously had not done be homework in advance.

That is on the Board and the scouts[/quote]How many more times is this nonsense going to be trotted out? There was no £100 million ( or more accurately £120 million) for winning the play off final. It is simply the minimum amount we would receive over four years even if we were to be immediately relegated. There is no pot of gold for transfers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
As Ricardo says, it isn''t 120 million up front at all. It''s more like 60 million for this season with payments of another 60 million spread over 4 seasons following that.

We also don''t get all of that 60 million up front. It''s spread over the season and some of it will be based on what position we finish the season in as well.

But it is an inescapable fact that if you only spend 3 million net in this league you''re unlikely to be competitive.

There are mitigating circumstances for this. The playoffs meant we had far less time than others to recruit players and we''ve now got the likes of Hooper anf RVW back on Premier League money which meant we couldn''t commit funds to other players at an early stage.

But our lack of activity in the summer is likely to cost us as January is a false idol if you hope that we are going to bring in new faces.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thank you Ricardo[Y]Good calm post Cobain. Most fans knew this was going to be a tough season and that we were going to lose a lot more than we win. So far we have acquitted ourselves reasonably well. Yesterday was galling because there was a serious lack of skill and effort from the whole team, and we all know we can do far better.Alex has proved that he is a quick learner and I really hope he can get the results to get the team up the table and the boo boys off his back, because he has a lot of potential, and for the sake of the club, we need him here for the long term. It''s up to the board now to back him fully in January.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Other than a few trolls I don''t think anyone is really calling for Neil to be sacked. I certainly am not but I do want him to revert to his style of play and find a more settled team.

The board are far more culpable for their pathetic efforts in the transfer window and the frustrating thing is it''s not like we needed to spend £50m to be in with a really good shout this season. We only really needed three or four quality players this summer (and we probably bought two) and I feel the unwillingness to speculate to accumulate with the tv monies on offer next season is frustrating.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Decent post.

But you state " we were always going to be in a relegation battle, we are newly promoted".

Eh...4 seasons of the last 5 in the Premier. Have we strengthened the squad in this time? No, same shite players, every year. New contracts to the likes of Martin, etc. New faces are Championship standard at best.

We have a board that are unable to attract the right players, because they are too rigid on the wage structure.

If you pay rags, you get rags, and rags is what we got.

If we fail to beat at least 2 from Everton, Soton and Villa at home, we will be relegated in April.

We need momentum, and at leasdt 19 points before the halfway of the season.

We also need luck in the form of other teams doing badly. Therefore, just as important as our own results, will be the results of Sunderland, Newcastle, Villa, Bournemouth, Swansea.

We are not able to pick up 40 points to assure survival on our own. Therefore, our fate will be determined by other teams failings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="grefstad"]Decent post.

But you state " we were always going to be in a relegation battle, we are newly promoted".

Eh...4 seasons of the last 5 in the Premier. Have we strengthened the squad in this time? No, same shite players, every year. New contracts to the likes of Martin, etc. New faces are Championship standard at best.

We have a board that are unable to attract the right players, because they are too rigid on the wage structure.

If you pay rags, you get rags, and rags is what we got.

If we fail to beat at least 2 from Everton, Soton and Villa at home, we will be relegated in April.

We need momentum, and at leasdt 19 points before the halfway of the season.

We also need luck in the form of other teams doing badly. Therefore, just as important as our own results, will be the results of Sunderland, Newcastle, Villa, Bournemouth, Swansea.

We are not able to pick up 40 points to assure survival on our own. Therefore, our fate will be determined by other teams failings.[/quote]

It''s a matter of opinion I but I think our squad is better than when we were last in the premier league. For example, Jarvis is clearly better than Snoddy, Jerome is better than Elmander etc. I won''t list the whole squad but as I say, I think we have improved it. This just goes to show that spending money doesn''t equal success, it''s about how you spend it. We''ve not made a bad signing in the summer in my view - as a newly promoted club, we''re not likely to be an attractive proposition for players who have a choice of Southampton for example. This is why certain people deem the board to have had a ''bad transfer window''. We don''t have a pot of gold, progression won''t be instant but will come if we''re patient as the last few years have shown.

It''s always going to be the case that, in part, we''re looking for teams like the ones you''ve just ,mentioned to lose - that''s part of being in a relegation battle.

As someone has mentioned above, at worst, we''re currently a yo yo club. That''s progression in itself from 5 years ago.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
"Eh...4 seasons of the last 5 in the Premier."

I have heard this nonsense once too often. We spent 3 seasons in the Prem and one back at square one in the Champs. We''re only a chunk into the fifth season which we haven''t got the money for. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A person buys a house not with money up front but a projection of what he can afford given anticipated salary etc...

So whilst I accept the 120 million was not up front. Having played 4/5 season in the premiership, and having only paused in the champ for one season, far more ambition could have been shown and money spent on projected and anticipated income and parachutes etc...

We spent FAR less than any other promoted side in recent history when you factor income into expenditure. As posted before I believe the sour taste of the RVW sage, coupled with a new scouting team, led to crisis and the embarrassment of the final day when we seemed to hurl offers left, right and centre with no sense of an actual plan.

Our squad has improved a little but not a lot. And I cannot help but look at teams like Swansea and Stoke and WBA and others and see a better fist made of the opportunity than we showed this summer.

We were timid and set ourselves up for "almost" guaranteed failure. And sure enough our champ defence and attack are struggling to match the quality faced week in and week out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Dean Coneys boots"]A person buys a house not with money up front but a projection of what he can afford given anticipated salary etc...

So whilst I accept the 120 million was not up front. Having played 4/5 season in the premiership, and having only paused in the champ for one season, far more ambition could have been shown and money spent on projected and anticipated income and parachutes etc...

We spent FAR less than any other promoted side in recent history when you factor income into expenditure. As posted before I believe the sour taste of the RVW sage, coupled with a new scouting team, led to crisis and the embarrassment of the final day when we seemed to hurl offers left, right and centre with no sense of an actual plan.

Our squad has improved a little but not a lot. And I cannot help but look at teams like Swansea and Stoke and WBA and others and see a better fist made of the opportunity than we showed this summer.

We were timid and set ourselves up for "almost" guaranteed failure. And sure enough our champ defence and attack are struggling to match the quality faced week in and week out.[/quote]FFS!!That pause in the Championship set us back quite a lot and after the gamble of RVW, Fer etc failed,we had to spend a lot to get us back out of that division. Some other clever clogs can give us the precise financial details, but I bet that year was not that much cheaper than us being in the Prem, with a much smaller budget to boot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Herman "][quote user="Dean Coneys boots"]A person buys a house not with money up front but a projection of what he can afford given anticipated salary etc...

So whilst I accept the 120 million was not up front. Having played 4/5 season in the premiership, and having only paused in the champ for one season, far more ambition could have been shown and money spent on projected and anticipated income and parachutes etc...

We spent FAR less than any other promoted side in recent history when you factor income into expenditure. As posted before I believe the sour taste of the RVW sage, coupled with a new scouting team, led to crisis and the embarrassment of the final day when we seemed to hurl offers left, right and centre with no sense of an actual plan.

Our squad has improved a little but not a lot. And I cannot help but look at teams like Swansea and Stoke and WBA and others and see a better fist made of the opportunity than we showed this summer.

We were timid and set ourselves up for "almost" guaranteed failure. And sure enough our champ defence and attack are struggling to match the quality faced week in and week out.[/quote]FFS!!That pause in the Championship set us back quite a lot and after the gamble of RVW, Fer etc failed,we had to spend a lot to get us back out of that division. Some other clever clogs can give us the precise financial details, but I bet that year was not that much cheaper than us being in the Prem, with a much smaller budget to boot. [/quote]Our income fell from £94m to £52m (down 44.6 per cent) but our spending on player wages only dropped from £37.6m to £34.9m (down 7 per cent).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Herman "][quote user="Dean Coneys boots"]A person buys a house not with money up front but a projection of what he can afford given anticipated salary etc...

So whilst I accept the 120 million was not up front. Having played 4/5 season in the premiership, and having only paused in the champ for one season, far more ambition could have been shown and money spent on projected and anticipated income and parachutes etc...

We spent FAR less than any other promoted side in recent history when you factor income into expenditure. As posted before I believe the sour taste of the RVW sage, coupled with a new scouting team, led to crisis and the embarrassment of the final day when we seemed to hurl offers left, right and centre with no sense of an actual plan.

Our squad has improved a little but not a lot. And I cannot help but look at teams like Swansea and Stoke and WBA and others and see a better fist made of the opportunity than we showed this summer.

We were timid and set ourselves up for "almost" guaranteed failure. And sure enough our champ defence and attack are struggling to match the quality faced week in and week out.[/quote]FFS!!That pause in the Championship set us back quite a lot and after the gamble of RVW, Fer etc failed,we had to spend a lot to get us back out of that division. Some other clever clogs can give us the precise financial details, but I bet that year was not that much cheaper than us being in the Prem, with a much smaller budget to boot. [/quote]Our income fell from £94m to £52m (down 44.6 per cent) but our spending on player wages only dropped from £37.6m to £34.9m (down 7 per cent).[/quote]Thanks Purple.Many a fine theory spoiled by one inconvenient fact.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I love the argument that we don''t get all that money up front. You do realise that transfer fees are not payed all up front either. No one wanted us to break the bank and push the stability of the club. What was expected was the strengthening needed to be competitive with the bottom 8 of the division. How we went about it and what we got was a amateurish embarrassment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How did the gamble on Fer fail? Thought we sold him on after 1 season for a decent profit?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Here we go, signed him for £4.4 million sold 1 season later for £8 million. I''d call that reaping the rewards for sound investment in the transfer market. Something as a club we should have been looking to to do more of, not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Here we go, signed him for £4.4 million sold 1 season later for £8 million. I''d call that reaping the rewards for sound investment in the transfer market. Something as a club we should have been looking to to do more of.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote user="JF"]Here we go, signed him for £4.4 million sold 1 season later for £8 million. I''d call that reaping the rewards for sound investment in the transfer market. Something as a club we should have been looking to to do more of, not.[/quote]Look at RVW and see the other side of the coin.There are no guarantee''s

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
cause there isn''t but that''s professional football isn''t it? Or shall we just pack up and go home because we got our fingers burnt once?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
We will not find it easy to yo yo up again if we go down there''s a lot of clubs spending big money in the Championships now .To me its starting to look clear we will drop , Villa look gone but you can already see big improvement in Sunderland under Big Sam and they will stay up . Bournemouth play some nice football and i see them surviving , Newcastle will depend on the new manager but their standout performance was thrashing City , Swansea much like Newcastle will depend on the new man once they get shot of their own Neil Adams  .Villa bottom , then Norwich and Newcastle are the three for me , you just do not survive in this league with a Championship side and that is what we are , not one decent striker at the club.As for this Alex Neil is a quick learner ? is he , he looks to be getting worse week by week and has lost the bottle to even try to win a game , it was Watford we were playing yesterday not Man City .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Too many fans seem to think that things work like a game of monopoly, where it''s solely a matter of spending more and more whilst keeping an eye on the bank balance. We''re in a mess because we''ve failed to invest and pursued a short-termist strategy.If truth be told we''ve not made much progress since Lambert got us promoted. We''ve made some progress in terms of McNally''s reforms - ie the footballing board, improving our youth setup and scouting network, long-overdue infrastructure investment etc. But the transfer strategy and commitment to playing quality football are severely lacking.It''s not about expectations. The board need to sit down, plan a proper strategy and stick to it. Too often they fail to see where we''re going wrong, fail to learn from their mistakes and implement half-hearted solutions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
We will not find it easy to yo yo up again if we go down there''s a lot of clubs spending big money in the Championships now .

Yes, more than we are prepared to pay in the PL.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...