Team statistics from Whoscored.com (Opta)

[lowlyfendweller 0]

Grefstad what is your agenda? Are you presenting arguments to suggest people stop supporting the team?Why else go over shortcomings that we are all aware of?

People don''t want to turn they want to keep supporting so don''t be surprised when you get criticised for criticising the team. Boo hoo we are not a strong PL club, WE ALL KNOW this and enjoy supporting the team through thick and thin.

I do enjoy your contributions but you have to realise if you just want to CONSISTENTLY dwell on the fact that we''re not that good in this league, then really what''s the point?

[westcoastcanary 173]

[quote user="king canary"]Thanks for that explainer WestCoast- up until now I''d never realised that...

What I was getting at was that most of the season we;ve actually not struggled to create chances- the big issues have been at the back.[/quote]

[:D] One can''t take anything for granted on this forum KC!

Agreed we have a good tally of shots, the question is at what cost to our defensive solidity? It''s because they''ve failed to ask that question that people have started to criticise AN for "losing his nerve" and becoming more defensively minded. It''s not a loss of nerve at all, it''s a totally rational response to the real cost of the strategy he adopted in the first ten games this season.

[Crabbycanary3 994]

So the stats show we are the worst team overall, but the League table says otherwise.

Bournemouth have covered the most distance, yet are one of the worst teams in the Prem.

It''s screaming at you Grefstad, but you are frothing at the mouth so much, to get these posts/points out, that you can''t see it.

Desperately sad

[grefstad 0]

[quote user="lowlyfendweller"]Grefstad what is your agenda? Are you presenting arguments to suggest people stop supporting the team?Why else go over shortcomings that we are all aware of?

People don''t want to turn they want to keep supporting so don''t be surprised when you get criticised for criticising the team.[/quote]

No agenda other than a wish to balance the ultranaive "we will be fine" dross served by the usual suspects. I am being slated for criticising the obvious shortcomings of the team, and as such, I am trying to back up my statements with stats.

I am trying to show why we are were we are in the tables. I don''t have all the answers, but I surely got more to bring to the table than some of the ignorants in this forum.

If they can not stand the facts (and stats are just that, facts), then it just proves these people just want to live on a pink cloud, growing their ignorant beliefs.

I have surely seen people getting pissed off as their obvious argumental shortcomings crawl to the surface. This is to be expected by the twenty-somethings payrolling this forum with their oneliners. They have as much knowledge about Norwich City, and football in general, as your average 8 year old.

My agenda, if ever I had one, us to prove how useless these people are to the forum, and how useless their rather stupid " we will be fine" ideology is.

Yes, we may be fine in the end, I do hope so myself, but nothing, and I mean nothing, suggests we will. Not based on results so far, not based on stats. Now, this may turn as the season goes, we all hope so, but if people can not take stats for what they are, why would you even take these deluded firum patrollers seriously?

I have never taken any of them seriously. For me, many of the usual suspects are just halfwits with a big mouth and little or nothing to back up their views, and my agenda/aim, is to show how poor the argumentation of these people really is.

[Crabbycanary3 994]

So much wrong with every single paragraph in your last post grefstad.

Desperately sad

[Tumbleweed 106]

I think this is what you said: "Norwich rated the poorest team of all with a rating of 6.64 after game week 15.", and assuming that is the overall rating taking an average of the stats I can''t see how anyone can accuse you of lying. We are not bottom of all categories, but you don''t need to be to be bottom overall.

But stats don''t tell the whole story, so we aren''t bottom, but we will be very close if things continue to go the way that they are right now. There are some odd decisions being made but above all it appears to be confidence. My brother went to the Watford game and he said that was the biggest thing for him, there seemed no belief.

We were hear before when Hughton got sacked. there was some true nonsense being spouted then such as : we are not in the relegation zone so we don''t need to panic. Well at the moment we are sliding that way and in danger of undoing all the good work from Jan-May.

It would be very ironic if we were replaced by the guy we sacked and the team we beat at Wembley...!!

Perhaps it would be more constructive to look at what those stats mean and what should be done to halt this run of form, do the stats provide any clear insight into one or two underlying and rectifiable problems..........??

[hogesar 9,618]

Surely these stats can be determined as a load of rubbish quite easily.

If it has us bottom overall, why aren''t we bottom overall in the table? We have seven points more than the bottom team. 

[morty 0]

I shall point a few things out here guffstad.No one is actually, blindly, saying everything is fine, and it will all be plain sailing, are they? If I have missed anyone doing this feel free to point out my mistake.Normal, sensible people of course have concerns, but there is a middle ground between "head in the sand" and "teenage hissy fit everytime we lose".Or do you just choose to be at one end of the spectrum just for drama?Oh, and I have OPTA stats that state you''re a bell. ( I don''t actually, but will just say I have, as that seems to be the fashion just now)

[morty 0]

Or is this just seasonal affective disorder due to lack of daylight in Norway just now?

[grefstad 0]

We all know that stats are not the solution to everything.

But, the stats can tell us the direction where we are heading, espescially in relation to our competitors.

It can maybe "predict" a bit of the future, so to speak, at least short term.

Stats are just tools, in which the people in charge of the club can maybe understand better how to improve the team, and our fortunes.

So why do I bring these stats here now? Just to be a pain in the arse for people like Morty, Hog, and others being pretty disillusioned about our current state?

No, I would like a better understanding of why we are on the slide. Why the team is not performing. Is it all bad luck? Are we doing something constantly wrong? Stats show we make fewer tackles than any other team, and by some margin. What does this tell us? Are we lacking a certain type of player? Lacking "bite"?

When you look at the tackling stats, the lack of interceptions made, and the low running figure, it does not take a genius to figure out that we are not exactly working very hard in our midfield to stop the opposition.

We are "soft touches", and the stats back it up.

Now, what can be done about it? Change of system? Change of personell? Change of both?

I dont have the answers, but I do believe our current mix of players, espescially in midfield, is not the best suited to play the style AN wants us to play. Thats also likely why he is tinkering with the style and tactics. Not only to better make it harder for the opposition, but to accomodate our own players styles and preferences.

If you look at the stats of our strikers, which has been pretty abysmal in at least 3 of the last 4 seasons in the Premier, you may start to ask questions about the service they get.

All the passes coming half a yard behind them, when it should be half a yard in front. The height of crosses. The timing of crosses related to the runs made by the striker, etc.

All these small flaws added together is what is giving us problems to compete in this league.

I think it is down to simple things like chemistry between players.

Wes and Holt always had that chemistry. I rarely see this almost telepathic understanding in any of our current crop of players.

No style, or tactics can fix such lack of basic "flow" or understanding, and this is what makes it very hard for managers. The players in their own right can be very good players. But they don''t fit well with eachother, for some reason.

Finding the right player for a particular role in the team is very important, and although stats is not the solution to everything, it can be helpful in some ways, to find a type of player suited to play a certain system, etc.

I can not explain it from the stats presented at Whoscored.com, but it does show that we are lacking in areas which are vital for us to stay in this league. And it will cost us unless we manage to change it around, or improve the plaing squad with players better suited to the system, or simply better players overall.

AN has a very difficult job, and it is not easy to tweak and tinker with these things.

I do think he should try to revert to the style that has been best for us in the past, though. Short passing game, high tempo on the ball, movement, etc.

If he can get quicker defenders in, I think much will be done to keep us in the league.

Quicker defenders will allow us to play a higher line in many games, giving us a more coherent unit when pressing, and as such give ourselves a better chance of dominating the game, retaining possession, and, ultimately winning more than we lose.

Lack of quick defenders lost us quite a few points early on, in games we were dominating.

Sadly, quick defenders cost money, and from what we heard in the summer, the board tried, but could not lure the type of dominating defender AN wanted in.

[grefstad 0]

[quote user="morty"]Or is this just seasonal affective disorder due to lack of daylight in Norway just now?[/quote]

Take a look at your last 10 posts. Have any of them been anything than attacks on other forum posters? You are truly the most worthless poster I have ever seen in a forum like this, and it says a lot.

If you can show me what your worth is to this forum, or even this very discussion, be my guest. I have never seen you come up with postings that can be said to bring any value to any discussion. It is always an attack on something or someone. Never anything fruitful.

Get a life, and travel a bit further than Cambridge. Also watch a bit more football than Norwich and the Premier. You may learn something.

Light is not much lesser in Bergen, Norway these days than in Norfolk.

Maybe half an hour less each day, or so, check it up if you care about it.

I won''t spend more of my time on your childish attacks, as I have better things to do.

[TIL 1010 4,722]

[quote user="grefstad"].

I won''t spend more of my time on your childish attacks, as I have better things to do.[/quote]Your posting history on about a dozen threads since 5pm Saturday tends to suggest otherwise.

[grefstad 0]

[quote user="TIL 1010"]Your posting history on about a dozen threads since 5pm Saturday tends to suggest otherwise.[/quote]

Exactly the point. I have been making (mostly) serious posts, while some do their very best to make oneliners about nothing. BTW, time to check TIL1010''s last 10 posts. Probably some revealing oneliners there too..

[lowlyfendweller 0]

Thanks for the repy grefstad, how about finding something encouraging to talk about in future for the sake of balance? You dwell on the bad stuff an awful lot hence the hostility!

It''s not even enlightening when you do, you just place everything it one big "we are shit sandwich"!! Remember you mainly address life long NCFC supporters so it just seems like negativity and nothing at all clever as we know how good we are compared to the rest. We are not far off par for the year but you seem to expect far more, hoping for more is understandable, but this "I know why we suck" attitude is a bit much.

[The Bristol Nest 513]

Steady Gref. Don''t present evidence to this forum that we might be in a spot of bother. Imagine the offence that may be caused.

[grefstad 0]

Lowlyfender: It is not all about pointing on the negatives.

But, when we are down at the bottom, there are bound to be more negatives than positives.

And I have never understood how the negatives are less negative if not talked about. Should it all vanish in thin air if put a lid on?

Yes, this team has every chance of surviving in this league.

Yes, I have higher hopes for Norwich than scrapping around 16th-17th every year.

Yes, I am posting dull stats, and producing posts to breathe some life into this rather dull forum.

Yes, I am tired of the oneliner useless stuff produced by youknowwho.

Yes, I am happy to talk about "encouraging stuff" for the sake of balance, when ever I find it. So far this season, sadly there has been very little encouragin stuff to talk about.

As for lifelong Norwich fans, I have 30 years as a Norwich fan clocked up next year myself...

[morty 0]

Ooft, full of your own self importance much?

[Ray 111]

grefstad,

An argument/viewpoint built around stats, can''t argue with that logic, although it appears you do! May I remind you of part of a polite reply you gave me a while ago when I did the same thing;

"You can stuff your stats where the sun does not shine."

So, when it suits then grefsatd, when it suits. May be this is why you bring stick upon yourself on the forum, your lack of politeness and lack of consistency?

[hogesar 9,618]

[quote user="grefstad"]Just to be a pain in the arse for people like Morty, Hog, and others being pretty disillusioned about our current state?[/quote]

I would love you to elaborate, with evidence of course, my ''disillusion'' about our current state.

Whenever is easiest for you.

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,020]

I would be interested in a comparison of the stats for ourselves and Aston Villa given that they are bottom of the league and we have nearly twice as many points as they do....

[grefstad 0]

Well...first of all I care nothing of the "stick" I eventually may get. Stick only sticks if it comes from people who got something to stick with. And very few here has got anything to show.

The people frequenting this forum often seem to be typically 18-25 yr olds, half-students, people with little or no life experience, and it shows.

Rarely a proper post to be seen, rarely a fruitful discussion. At most 5 posts before the usual thread pesters show up with their internal feuds. Moderators, if ever there was one, are long gone.

Having seen the dross coming from 80% of the usual posters in here, I am not too worried of their eventual "stick".

What is more worrying, for a forum like this, is the near total lack of proper activity from decent posters.

I have seen some decent posters in here (very few, and far between), and common for them is that they all got a very low post tally. Why?

[grefstad 0]

[quote user="morty"]Ooft, full of your own self importance much?[/quote]

Loool...who''s talking? How many of your close to 27000 posts have been nothing more than pompous stuff from you? When you can squeeze it into a one-liner, that is..

[Lessingham Canary 99]

Grefstad wrote;

The people frequenting this forum often seem to be typically 18-25 yr olds, half-students, people with little or no life experience, and it shows.

Rarely a proper post to be seen, rarely a fruitful discussion. At most 5 posts before the usual thread pesters show up with their internal feuds. Moderators, if ever there was one, are long gone.

Grefstad tells me you have learned nothing about your fellow posters in the time you have been posting on here, your assessment couldn''t be further from the reality.

[nutty nigel 7,513]

Grefstead, how have these stats progressed since the Newcastle game? And why, after anyone else posts stats, are you so dismissive of them?

[lowlyfendweller 0]

I''m pretty most of us are past peak fitness.... Old gits some have even said.

[Ray 111]

[quote user="grefstad"]Well...first of all I care nothing of the "stick" I eventually may get. Stick only sticks if it comes from people who got something to stick with. And very few here has got anything to show.

The people frequenting this forum often seem to be typically 18-25 yr olds, half-students, people with little or no life experience, and it shows.

Rarely a proper post to be seen, rarely a fruitful discussion. At most 5 posts before the usual thread pesters show up with their internal feuds. Moderators, if ever there was one, are long gone.

Having seen the dross coming from 80% of the usual posters in here, I am not too worried of their eventual "stick".

What is more worrying, for a forum like this, is the near total lack of proper activity from decent posters.

I have seen some decent posters in here (very few, and far between), and common for them is that they all got a very low post tally. Why?[/quote]

grefstad,

I care nothing of the stick you will/do get and at no stage did I suugest you did, so why the need to bring it up? Perhaps you do care?

You have not addressed the point about using stats when it suits you but being incredibly rude when other do it. All you have done is revert to your default stance of being personally abusive to other posters, so yet again you appear to have made my point for me. Thanks.

In one of your previous posts you said, "This is to be expected by the twenty-somethings payrolling this forum with their oneliners. They have as much knowledge about Norwich City, and football in general, as your average 8 year old."

I suggest you read what you post, think about it carefully and decide if you should perhaps rewrite some of your words, I for one do not disagree with some of what you say, it''s your ungracious way of saying it I have a problem with.

Now, are the twenty somethings payrolling this forum actually twenty something or are they 8 years old, and an avergae 8 year old at that.

I suspect you have very little knowledge of my life experience, or indeed, experience of football but just because I don''t agree with you doesn''t mean I deserve to be on the end some of your childlike (8 year old) attempts at bullying, if you were a more pleasant poster (pleasant according to me), you may find you courted the more fruitfull debate you seek.

[TIL 1010 4,722]

There is another Forum available to post on Grefstad you know seeing as you have a low regard for the quality of the PinkUn and its posters.There are a few like minded souls over there who you could spend your time with berating all things connected with this site. KIO and Dubai Mark to name but two would soon be best buddies with you.

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,020]

I have tried to engage with the OP regarding the use of stats but to no avail. I will have one more go......... I would also be interested how you view whether or not stats such as those produced by Opta are skewed by tactics, for example we deliberately conceded two thirds of the pitch to Swansea in an attempt to nullify their passing game, which worked as we went on to win 1-0. I have not looked but I guess the stats for that game will show we did not run around very much and had less possession than Swansea.....

[Lessingham Canary 99]

^^^^ ^^^^^ ^^^^^^

Ever tried pushing water uphill ?

[grefstad 0]

[quote user="Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB"]I have tried to engage with the OP regarding the use of stats but to no avail. I will have one more go......... I would also be interested how you view whether or not stats such as those produced by Opta are skewed by tactics, for example we deliberately conceded two thirds of the pitch to Swansea in an attempt to nullify their passing game, which worked as we went on to win 1-0. I have not looked but I guess the stats for that game will show we did not run around very much and had less possession than Swansea.....[/quote]

Obviously, stats are stats. So if a team surrenders possession deliberately, the stats will show just that, low possession. We will not know, from the stats, if it was deliberate or not.

And it is not about one game, or two games. Stats should be read with a view over a lot of games, and we are now 15 games into the season.

Usually stats, when entering near halfway into the season, show teams with poor key stats near the bottom. This correlates pretty well with our current status in the league, and with other teams down there with us.

No team will top all the different stat types, as there are far too many factors to account for, but for a team like ours, struggling to stay in the league, some stats are more important than others.

I find it espescially worrying that our defensive stats for tackles, dribbled past, and interceptions are so poor. It creates an impression of a pretty static team defensively, easily run past, and that has proven to be the case in many of the goals we have shipped.

Tackles: Norwich 2nd worst for tackles made

Dribbled past: 4th worst

Interceptions per game: Worst of all teams

Also worrying is the offensive stat of unforced errors:

Unsuccessful touches (bad control): Worst of all

They way I interpret this, we give the ball away unforced more times than any other team. This failure to keep the ball, even in unforced situations, is food for thought about the quality of our team, perhaps espescially our midfield.

The stats does not tell where these unforced errors happen (they may do, but I have not checked it thoroughly enough), but it is probably a fair assumption most of these errors happen in the midfield areas.