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mrs miggins

So, the January transfer window...

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[quote user="GJP"]Agree with ZLF.

Just wonder who we could get if we couldn''t get them in the summer.[/quote]
I disagree with Zipper. We have already improved our defence since the Newcastle game by adjusting the balance and now bringing in Rudd. Our goals conceded per game have gone down from close to 2 to just over 1. The critical issue is now up front.

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thats your view wcc. For me its crystal clear that the goals conceded has gone down not because the defence has improved but because we have added an extra central midfielder to add protection at the expense of our attacking capability.

AN chose that after the Toon debacle highlighted that the current options we not up the task needed.

4141 with a high pressing game is a successful strategy if we have enough quality in the back 4 - with that approach we were in the top 6 goal scorers in the league so we can score.

Since compromising with 4231 following toon we have the second lowest goals scored total. We do have goals in this squad - but not when the distance between the striker and 3 is so great because they are so deep.

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[quote user="Canary Wundaboy"]One thing is totally clear, if we don''t spend we''re going down. The board have no choice if survival really is the priority.[/quote]Couldn''t agree more.The boat should have been pushed out in the summer but it''s not too late yet. If the Board are more concerned about having a pretty balance sheet then we''ve had it but if they''re prepared to take a calculated risk we shouldn''t need to still be sweating going into those last three tough games against Arsenal, Man Utd and Everton. You do have to wonder if they prefer the pretty balance sheet though.You have to trust the manager and his staff to choose the players they''d like and hope the Board play ball but I would think we realistically need to end up with a nett spend of £20m or so to achieve safety.On our past track record I''m not holding my breath....

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No players, especially Grabban Neil''s fav striker, will be sold. Maybe one or two loan signings.

Though I did hear a bid was being made for Abdenasser El Khayati 7million if city stay up in the summer

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Overseas loans are all we have space for; prem club are only allowed two domestic ones at a time and wisdom and jarvis fill those slots. If we sign or return then we are allowed two more to take us to the max permissible of 4 per season.

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[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]thats your view wcc. For me its crystal clear that the goals conceded has gone down not because the defence has improved but because we have added an extra central midfielder to add protection at the expense of our attacking capability.

AN chose that after the Toon debacle highlighted that the current options we not up the task needed.

4141 with a high pressing game is a successful strategy if we have enough quality in the back 4 - with that approach we were in the top 6 goal scorers in the league so we can score.

Since compromising with 4231 following toon we have the second lowest goals scored total. We do have goals in this squad - but not when the distance between the striker and 3 is so great because they are so deep.[/quote]

Again, I think you misdiagnose the problem and in consequence misidentify the solution. We were being undone primarily by over-commitment in attack combined with susceptibility to losing possession in the wrong areas at precisely the wrong time. No improvement that we can realistically hope to make to the quality of our back four will, by itself, solve the problem.

AN''s response since Newcastle has been spot on. We have shown we can still cause teams (including Arsenal, Man City and Everton) problems, and score goals (scored 4, conceded 5), and if we had just converted a couple of the clear cut chances we created but didn''t score we would not now be in 18th place in the table.

The game is not about "attacks" and "defences", it''s about attacking and defending. We can in fact do both well enough to survive. But above all we need to take our clear-cut chances.

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I disagree, slightly, westcoast.

"4141 with a high pressing game is a successful strategy if we have enough quality in the back 4 - with that approach we were in the top 6 goal scorers in the league so we can score."

I agree with this. We got goals in the team, if we committ to playing offensive football.

Our problem though is that when pressing high, the defensive line needs to be high in the pitch, to avoid stretching the team (and stay compact between the lines).

We dont have quick enough defenders to do this, and are being sucked in on the break way to often when playing offensive football.

Palace showed this in the first game of the season, and other teams have also done this to us with ease (Newcastle, among others).

So, a pressing game is super for us, and the players we got in the offensive part of the pitch, but bad for our defenders, as they will often get into 1vs1 situations which they often lose, due to not being very quick compared to the opposition strikers/midfielders breaking.

I am pretty sure AN have acknowledged this, and if he does nto get better defenders in, in January, he will have a big problem keeping us up, as we can not play the defensive football and get wins out of it. We dont score enough when we play defensive football, because we dont have strikers who can do it on their own.

If we had strikers who could make their own chances, we could well play as we did vs Chelsea, Man C, Arsenal.

But we dont.

Both Leicester and Palace are teams who have understood that pace is everything these days. If they got pace up front, they can sit back and make it hard for the opposition, while the strikers take care of their own.

We dont have that luxury, so we need to attack as a unit, and it leaves us more vulnerable at the back.

Only solution is to get quicker and better defenders in (if we want to play 4-1-4-1 high pressing game), or revert to defensive stuff, and hope Mbokani/Jerome/A.N.Other can score on few chances that come their way.

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The name of the game immediately is Premiership survival, later on is the time to sign central midfielders.

At the moment the main need is convert more goal chances into goals. We can''t afford the poor efforts of recent weeks. The main priority must be a striker , or perhaps two, and well down a central defender. Bennett has shown what he can do, but he or Bassong could be injured or suspended and we need an adequate replacement.

I can''t see us spending £27m, but I think that we have to splash the cash to find a good striker.

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Although £27m does sound like a lot, I think if we were to sell the players who aren''t playing much e.g. Hooper/Laffs/Grabban/VOO then personally think its exactly the sort of money we should be spending. However, I suppose this may be the case, it of course doesn''t mean the board will fork that much out. After the summer I must admit, I haven''t much faith in their ability to recruit high quality players.

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Redmond hasn''t currently lived up to his potential ability this season but everytime he gets the ball he''s one player who really can make something from nothing, considering selling a player like him would be absolute madness. We need to add to the potential starting 18/20 players we have not consider selling them. He''s the type of player that can keep us up and getting somebody better is going to be well out of budget, bigger issues in the squad at the minute by a long stretch. Got dead weight all over the place so selling one of our spark players would be ludacris.

I would imagine plenty of players we may have not bidded for but declared interested in in the summer may now be available given how teams seasons go but from the previous players it just seems the majority simply were not interested! I''d say:

Koulibaly has already played 18 games for Napoli this season now the chances of him leaving are pretty remote to none.

Gayle has scored 5 goals in his last 1500 premier league minutes, and I know that''s hard to make judgement because he''s not had a run in the team and plenty of the bench but one goal every 300 minutes isn''t exactly a cracking deal at the talked about 8/12 million pounds is it? Would look around for much more quality when spending that.

Naismith looks the most likely, hard worker and makes stuff happen, suits the Neil stable wide midfield model. Ideal Norwich signing.

Charlie Austin will be the interesting one for the bottom teams in Jan. Barely fit and must be a reason why nobody took a punt on him in the summer but always threatens when he gets the ball and looks like he''s going to score all the time, out of contract in the summer, who will take the punt?

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[quote user="The Great Wall Of Tettey"]Redmond hasn''t currently lived up to his potential ability this season but everytime he gets the ball he''s one player who really can make something from nothing, considering selling a player like him would be absolute madness. We need to add to the potential starting 18/20 players we have not consider selling them. He''s the type of player that can keep us up and getting somebody better is going to be well out of budget, bigger issues in the squad at the minute by a long stretch. Got dead weight all over the place so selling one of our spark players would be ludacris.

I would imagine plenty of players we may have not bidded for but declared interested in in the summer may now be available given how teams seasons go but from the previous players it just seems the majority simply were not interested! I''d say:

Koulibaly has already played 18 games for Napoli this season now the chances of him leaving are pretty remote to none.

Gayle has scored 5 goals in his last 1500 premier league minutes, and I know that''s hard to make judgement because he''s not had a run in the team and plenty of the bench but one goal every 300 minutes isn''t exactly a cracking deal at the talked about 8/12 million pounds is it? Would look around for much more quality when spending that.

Naismith looks the most likely, hard worker and makes stuff happen, suits the Neil stable wide midfield model. Ideal Norwich signing.

Charlie Austin will be the interesting one for the bottom teams in Jan. Barely fit and must be a reason why nobody took a punt on him in the summer but always threatens when he gets the ball and looks like he''s going to score all the time, out of contract in the summer, who will take the punt?[/quote]

I think Koulibaly was always out of our reach.

Naismith is the player I''d really like to see. We know he will score goals and his all-round play is really good. At his prime as well and hungry to play. Could be a bit of a Vardy-style signing for us perhaps?

Austin - can''t see it. I live in (faint) hope, but I just think there will be many teams after him and all of them will probably pay more and seem like a better prospect (bar Villa at the moment!)

Haller is the other one I am not sure of. Obviously has a good pedigree etc. and is in good form at the moment, but he is a big, big gamble at the prices quoted and it looks like Sunderland are after him anyway

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A decent enough forward to change our season will cost 15 / 20 million quid...

Lafferty 5 million

Hooper 4 million

Grabban 6 million

Jerome 7 million

= 22 million = Charlie Austin and some spare change

Or lets just stick with Jerome up front and leave the others playing for the u21 and on loan...

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This isn''t footy man, we simply won''t get £22m selling them 4 including taxes, loyalty fees, agent fees etc. We will be lucky to see any money for Hooper in particular.

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Some people really do get football manager and real life muddled up!

Selling all your reserve strikers at market value (Probably more looking at some valuations) then buying a higher valued stiker just doesnt happen in real life!!

I''m all for a new striker, but its not just a matter of deciding to sell on players then getting good bang for your buck with a new purchase. It''s just not that easy. I''m personally very pleased with the Naismith as he seems like a realistic signing and would help our cause.

We have to slow burn there really is no other way. Even when man city got their sugar daddy they had to pay obscene wages to players, just to get them to what was perceived as an unfashionable club..... We get the same rate of inflation when approaching average premiership players. It really is a frustratingly tough market for us, but it is what is.

To paraphrase Jim Morrison in Waymes World 2:

"If you book them they might come, if you''re happy to pay over the odds for not much more than what we have already, but probably won''t"

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Would like to see some real premier league coaching experience be brought in the club to assist the current team

Maybe a cheeky bid for Glen Hoddle something to break the current mood music at the club

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Great suggestion Hector.

Wouldn''t like Hoddle as manager, but as a coach he''s certainly got great knowledge of the game. Hopefully though we won''t go the way of Hull when Phelan joined them after he left us.

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[quote user="Hector the Canary"]Would like to see some real premier league coaching experience be brought in the club to assist the current team

Maybe a cheeky bid for Glen Hoddle something to break the current mood music at the club[/quote]

You mean a sort of "fat potato head" appointment.

I''m sure AN would love that!

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I agree that wise old head role is lacking. I do think that Hoddle speaks well on TV, and whether its him or someone similar who can help AN and GH out from a tactical perspective with lots of PL experience would seem to be a good addition.

As to signings we just need a good CB in my view. Better CBs= less reliance on 2 DMs, more attacking threat follows as the midfielders can get forward a bit more.

But for me against Everton what stood out was lack of real pace, we broke too slowly, and never outnumbered them or looked to create much overlap. It meant final balls had to be absolutely 100% precise which is very hard. An example in the second half when Tettey got forward and had CJ to the left central and NR to the right. The better ball was to CJ but he delayed, passed to Redmond who was by then heading slightly away from goal and his square ball to CJ was woeful and was easily cleared. An early ball to Jerome would have given him a shooting chance, but we didn''t get even a sniff from that attack.

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Howson is, to me, OK at most things but a master of none in particular and he occupies a crucial role which does leave us short when not performed well.

It would also help if AN stopped mucking around with the team selection so much, its no wonder they can''t get much fluidity or intuitive understanding going.

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I personally think we will spend in the window my only fear is that our position in the table may put off some probable targets? I hope not because with the right buy we should be able to stay up !!

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Wouldn''t be surprised to see Redmond go in January - against Everton we were crying out for someone like him to be a threat; something well within his capability, yet very little oomph displayed?

Alex Neil has had enough time to assess this squad which isn''t generating great results; we could see a fair bit of churning in January...

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