Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
lappinitup

Kett’s Tavern fined

Recommended Posts

"Virtuoso Craft Brewpub and Smokehouse, on Kett’s Hill, Norwich,

formerly the Kett’s Tavern, has been ordered to pay the Premier League

£6,770, for breaching copyright.

The pub had been broadcasting

Premier League football through a foreign provider, including all

Norwich City matches, dating back to before the Canaries’ 2014

relegation and subsequent promotion in May."

Is that it for them all, or are pubs still showing games?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Found this;

"Historically, most arrests and attempted prosecutions are made under the provision of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, which prohibits the broadcast of material without the licence of the copyright owner. However, in February 2012, during a case between the Premier League and a pub landladyfrom Portsmouth named Karen Murphy, the European Court ruled that live sporting events could not be regarded as “intellectual creations”. They were instead “subject to rules of the game, leaving no room for creative freedom”. The court decided that “accordingly, those events cannot be protected under copyright”.

Although the same case ruled that logos, anthems and commentary overlaid on to the pictures of matches were copyrightable property, the prospect of gaining meaningful convictions for illegally broadcasting a logo is slim – even without the logo-blocking software that is being developed by some streamers."

Looks like The Premier League are winning the argument re broadcasting the logo''s and anthems.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Must be something to do with the specific service they use, perhaps, as others have got away with it as being a legal service?

As TC has said, I''m assuming as the story brands copyright as the reason it''s to do with the showing of Premier League official material such as logo''s, graphics, music and commentary. It''s all a bit interesting anyway. It''s so bad that in other countries you can watch ANY of our Premier League games yet in the UK where the football is played you get ONE 3pm kick-off to watch and that''s if you''re lucky enough to have BT Vision

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BT only have the lunchtime 12.45 game. Don''t think you can watch any premier league games at 3pm legally. Sad state of affairs!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fair point, just realised you''re right.

It''s BT at 12.45 and Sky at 5.30

What a sad situation to be in where you can''t watch any 3pm football AT ALL in the country where it''s played.

I understand it''s because they want to protect the clubs'' and the leagues profits by having exclusivity for live football allocated to certain TV companies, and also to keep people watching games in the ground as opposed to on the screen. But c''mon, given the choice I''d go to Carra every time, but it''d be nice to be able to watch the away games properly...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
As far as I understand it, Having Sky in a pub costs about £15,000 so to be honest, I''d say the pub is the winner despite losing the court case.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="kick it off"]As far as I understand it, Having Sky in a pub costs about £15,000.......[/quote]It still doesn''t allow Sat 3.00pm kick-offs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="kick it off"]As far as I understand it, Having Sky in a pub costs about £15,000.......[/quote]It still doesn''t allow Sat 3.00pm kick-offs.[/quote]
Which I agree with. Football should be, first and foremost, about encouraging people to actually go to games, if possible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Playing devil''s advocate here - if only the ticket prices were more reasonable.....

For the record I attend about 30 games home and away each year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Jacko"]Playing devil''s advocate here - if only the ticket prices were more reasonable.....

For the record I attend about 30 games home and away each year.[/quote]
Home games, as part of a season ticket work out at 26 or 27 quid.
I dont think thats overly unreasonable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Jacko"]Playing devil''s advocate here - if only the ticket prices were more reasonable.....

For the record I attend about 30 games home and away each year.[/quote]

It''s a fair point.   If prices for games were say £15, on a par with Germany, then fans would still go to games anyway rather than watch in a pub.  Also, if football was available on TV live at 3.00 Saturdays, is it really any different from the matches that are shown live on Sundays and at other times?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="lake district canary"]if football was available on TV live at 3.00 Saturdays, is it really any different from the matches that are shown live on Sundays and at other times?[/quote]I think it''s more to do with local football Lakey. Would people go to watch Kings Lynn and Dereham etc if Premier League games were being shown live at the same time? And would youngsters want to play if their favourites were on TV? It''s not all about the TV money.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="lake district canary"]if football was available on TV live at 3.00 Saturdays, is it really any different from the matches that are shown live on Sundays and at other times?[/quote]I think it''s more to do with local football Lakey. Would people go to watch Kings Lynn and Dereham etc if Premier League games were being shown live at the same time? And would youngsters want to play if their favourites were on TV? It''s not all about the TV money. [/quote]

Maybe, but in my experience of people who go to local football, they are so into it that, that even the draw of a live match on tv would not take them away from it. We all know nothing is better than watching live football at a match - and if they are that keen to see us play, it is available on numerous streams now, anyway. As for youngsters in the Norwich area, would it not be easy to arrange matches either on Saturday morning and Sundays to avoid clashing with matches at CR? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ive seen "non legit" streams at loads of pubs, greak/turkish/american etc channels, and they still do it now, ive even watched a norwich game in a kebab shop beforemight i suggest the fact the ketts quite broadly plastered their streaming on the internet, specifically on this site, inviting people along might just have been their downfall, especially given the relationship between archant and the clubsomeone snaked on you

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Morty, I think £26/27 is reasonable but ultimately we aren''t the casual fan.

The casual fan wanting to pitch up to Carrow Road on the day is looking at £40 quid as a minimum in the top flight - and that was just for a game against Bournemouth.

If we cast the net wider across the country, particularly to places like Arsenal then the situation is even worse. I don''t want to turn this into a debate about ticket prices but I''d envisage the temptation to watch in the pub would be much less if casual prices were more reasonable....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
lake district canary wrote the following post at 11/11/2015 7:37 PM:

lappinitup wrote:

lake district canary wrote:

if football was available on TV live at 3.00 Saturdays, is it really any different from the matches that are shown live on Sundays and at other times?

I think it''s more to do with local football Lakey. Would people go to watch Kings Lynn and Dereham etc if Premier League games were being shown live at the same time? And would youngsters want to play if their favourites were on TV? It''s not all about the TV money.

Maybe, but in my experience of people who go to local football, they are so into it that, that even the draw of a live match on tv would not take them away from it. We all know nothing is better than watching live football at a match - and if they are that keen to see us play, it is available on numerous streams now, anyway. As for youngsters in the Norwich area, would it not be easy to arrange matches either on Saturday morning and Sundays to avoid clashing with matches at CR?

What youth leagues play games on a Saturday afternoon in Norfolk.?

Neither of you know what your talking about.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If casual prices were more reasonable then we would sell out every home game and people would still want streams etc because they can''t get a ticket.  We pretty much sell out every Saturday 3pm game anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Jacko"]Morty, I think £26/27 is reasonable but ultimately we aren''t the casual fan.

The casual fan wanting to pitch up to Carrow Road on the day is looking at £40 quid as a minimum in the top flight - and that was just for a game against Bournemouth.

If we cast the net wider across the country, particularly to places like Arsenal then the situation is even worse. I don''t want to turn this into a debate about ticket prices but I''d envisage the temptation to watch in the pub would be much less if casual prices were more reasonable....[/quote]
I dont disagree with your point, but football isn''t some consumer product that you just buy on a whim. Yeah its not cheap, but thats the price it is. You pay it or you dont. But you cant apply any kind of consumer logic to it, if price were just the issue, then people simply wouldnt pay it, and Arsenal would be playing in front of empty seats.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I have been told that Sky are targeting landlords that do not subscribe to them directly and use nothing but foreign streams. to show virtually all PL games over a weekend. However if pubs subscribe to Sky and also show streams to get in the punters all day saturday and sunday showing game after game they turn a blind eye.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TIL 1010

"I have been told that Sky are targeting landlords that do not subscribe to them directly and use nothing but foreign streams. to show virtually all PL games over a weekend. However if pubs subscribe to Sky and also show streams to get in the punters all day saturday and sunday showing game after game they turn a blind eye."

And that makes good business sense, sky have to protect their considerable investment, however their charges are massive to small business''s, i know someone with a barber shop who wanted to have sky sports on for their customers but simply can''t afford the rates, so its the radio for the punters, or massive hikes on their short back and sides !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="kick it off"]As far as I understand it, Having Sky in a pub costs about £15,000.......[/quote]It still doesn''t allow Sat 3.00pm kick-offs.[/quote]
That''s what I mean, the pub got access to loads more games for 18 months for less than half the price of 12 months Sky Sports. Bargain!!!
I don''t agree with this nonsense about 3pm kick offs not being televised. I advocate a move to the American system whereby games are shown locally, but only if they are sold out. If it''s not a sell out then it doesn''t get screened. I know it wouldn''t be favoured by many clubs due to not selling out, but we''d do alright with it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="kick it off"]As far as I understand it, Having Sky in a pub costs about £15,000 so to be honest, I''d say the pub is the winner despite losing the court case.[/quote]Unless the formula has changed since i had a pub the Sky charges are based on your rateable value which of course means the larger your premises the higher your rateable value and the number of screens you have. Back in 2008 i was paying around 5 grand a year with only 2 screens in a one bar pub.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On that programme about Salford City the other week I''m sure they said it would have been £6k to get Sky licence - too much for them so apparently they had a dodgy feed they didn''t pay (much) for; obviously with Gary Neville coming in, and him being a sky employee, he realised that wouldn''t look good so said they''d need to sort it out/he''d see what he could do. It does seem the dodgy feed thing is common; sky do seem to turn a bit if a blind eye but you can''t really blame them for protecting what they''ve paid tonnes of £ for (and I am no sky fan)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I''m not going to Chelsea on the 21st because it''s £50, I''ll stay home and watch it on a stream. I''d go if it were £25 or so but as it stands my finances don''t realistically stretch that far. Call me a part-timer if you wish but that''s my reality. I''m sure Chelsea will find someone else to take the ticket and that''s their prerogative, whether there were a stream or not I wouldn''t go.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="kick it off"]

I don''t agree with this nonsense about 3pm kick offs not being televised. I

advocate a move to the American system whereby games are shown locally, but only

if they are sold out. If it''s not a sell out then it doesn''t get screened. I

know it wouldn''t be favoured by many clubs due to not selling out, but we''d do

alright with it.
[/quote]
 
This totally ignores the big problem with televising games at 3pm Saturday which is the disruption it causes to the grass roots game. When Norwich returned to the Premier in 2011 local clubs found it harder to field a team when there was a big game. Interestingly there were less refs too. Obviously the higher up the pyramid you go the more commitment there is. But for the run of the mill teams at the bottom it made a difference. Now I agree that there''s a freedom of choice issue here but that doesn''t help the poor guy struggling to keep his club going. Those people are diamond and deserve that little bit of help.
 
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
Picking up on what Morty said and I see Mortys point but some of us are lucky enough to have the disposable income that allows us to afford the luxury of regular visits to Carrow rd however there are many who can no longer justify spending that kind of money each year to attend the ground but still share the same passion for the club and will do all they can to view the game live whether that is on a dodgy pub stream or a Wiz style illegal stream. There will always be somebody willing to take the chance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...