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Erik the Viking

Investment

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Would be interested to know if we are still actively trying to secure investment for the future?, this sounds a sensible option for Crystal Palace with the current owners still actively involved.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3314198/Crystal-Palace-set-American-investment-businessman-Josh-Harris-edges-closer-buying-huge-stake-Premier-League-club.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

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I would presume that being on the look out for investment is always on the agenda.  But as has been said over and over, it would need to be someone suitable - someone who will not ruin/change the club out of all recognition.  That is easier said than done.  But we are at present self-sufficient with the various sources of income we have at present, so if it ain''t broke, no need to sell out just for the sake of a few bucks.

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When Delia and Michael eventually retire I would expect other board members to step up to the plate, and any new board members being people with a genuine interest in Norwich City. Its all very well getting "investment" in , but you dont get something for nothing. We turned down Tony Fernandes because he wanted a majority shareholding and controlling interest.
The investment group that have " invested" in Bournemouth have put two people on the board. Two people who likely don''t give a fig about football.
I would rather stick with the basic structure we have, someone with money to chuck in would be nice, but first and foremost, it has to be about Norwich City, not profit or asset stripping.

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What is it with this obsession with investment? where do people think it will take us, unless we get man city/chelsea sized investment we will never break into top 6 consistently. I''d much rather the club was run by Norwich city people making sure the club is on a footing it can sustain, than some tool come in make a pigs ear of decision making because they fancy a football club to play with for alittle while.

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[quote user="Yellowbeagle"]What is it with this obsession with investment? where do people think it will take us, unless we get man city/chelsea sized investment we will never break into top 6 consistently. I''d much rather the club was run by Norwich city people making sure the club is on a footing it can sustain, than some tool come in make a pigs ear of decision making because they fancy a football club to play with for alittle while.[/quote]
I disagree. Investment on a smaller scale could make a difference, perhaps an extra 5 or 10 million spent in the summer, either in direct investment in player transfer value, or a relaxation in the tight wage structure ( which I totally understand the reasons behind) could have made a difference to our current league position.
I have no obsession to be a top six side, but it would be nice not to struggle every season.

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[quote user="Yellowbeagle"]What is it with this obsession with investment? where do people think it will take us, unless we get man city/chelsea sized investment we will never break into top 6 consistently. I''d much rather the club was run by Norwich city people making sure the club is on a footing it can sustain, than some tool come in make a pigs ear of decision making because they fancy a football club to play with for alittle while.[/quote]

I think people believe it may take us up a level like palace, saints and Leicester. I believe it would too.

If we fall short in May it will be because of the inability to strengthen key areas

Cue a reply of Leeds and Pompey....

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[quote user="can u sit down please"][quote user="Yellowbeagle"]What is it with this obsession with investment? where do people think it will take us, unless we get man city/chelsea sized investment we will never break into top 6 consistently. I''d much rather the club was run by Norwich city people making sure the club is on a footing it can sustain, than some tool come in make a pigs ear of decision making because they fancy a football club to play with for alittle while.[/quote]

I think people believe it may take us up a level like palace, saints and Leicester. I believe it would too.

If we fall short in May it will be because of the inability to strengthen key areas

Cue a reply of Leeds and Pompey....[/quote]
We can go to the next level, but we just have to do it in a longer timescale, building slowly, season by season. The trouble is that this playing field isnt level, so the slower approach we have to take is inherently more risky.

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[quote user="morty"][quote user="Yellowbeagle"]What is it with this obsession with investment? where do people think it will take us, unless we get man city/chelsea sized investment we will never break into top 6 consistently. I''d much rather the club was run by Norwich city people making sure the club is on a footing it can sustain, than some tool come in make a pigs ear of decision making because they fancy a football club to play with for alittle while.[/quote]
I disagree. Investment on a smaller scale could make a difference, perhaps an extra 5 or 10 million spent in the summer, either in direct investment in player transfer value, or a relaxation in the tight wage structure ( which I totally understand the reasons behind) could have made a difference to our current league position.
I have no obsession to be a top six side, but it would be nice not to struggle every season.
[/quote]

Fair enough I just don''t think 5-10 million will make the difference between not struggling and investment that is truly substantial will come with a cost one way or another. Clubs our size will always need to factor in relegation, even with investment that is always likely to be somewhere on the horizon, IMO that''s just top flight English football at the Moment.

Of course if an obvious and legitimate source of investment becomes available the board of any business would be daft not to consider. I''m just not overly concerned by a lack of it if the club is being run in a sustainable way that means it will still be here at a similar level to it is in 15 years time, not some Portsmouth type situation.

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as stated many times before, delia wont sell unless its to someone "with the clubs best interest at heart"

sadly theres no one that fills that category with the bank balance to take the club forwardwe wont see european football ever again without a russian/arab/yank money

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I would rather have "poor" owners who are emotionally attached to the club, understand its value to the community and therefore manage the business side sustainably, than rich investors who see the club as a toy or as a financial investment for a period of time and may at any point leave us in the sh*te.
Long live Delia and MWJ.
Shame on the haters.

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[quote user="Yellowbeagle"][quote user="morty"][quote user="Yellowbeagle"]What is it with this obsession with investment? where do people think it will take us, unless we get man city/chelsea sized investment we will never break into top 6 consistently. I''d much rather the club was run by Norwich city people making sure the club is on a footing it can sustain, than some tool come in make a pigs ear of decision making because they fancy a football club to play with for alittle while.[/quote]
I disagree. Investment on a smaller scale could make a difference, perhaps an extra 5 or 10 million spent in the summer, either in direct investment in player transfer value, or a relaxation in the tight wage structure ( which I totally understand the reasons behind) could have made a difference to our current league position.
I have no obsession to be a top six side, but it would be nice not to struggle every season.
[/quote]

Fair enough I just don''t think 5-10 million will make the difference between not struggling and investment that is truly substantial will come with a cost one way or another. Clubs our size will always need to factor in relegation, even with investment that is always likely to be somewhere on the horizon, IMO that''s just top flight English football at the Moment.

Of course if an obvious and legitimate source of investment becomes available the board of any business would be daft not to consider. I''m just not overly concerned by a lack of it if the club is being run in a sustainable way that means it will still be here at a similar level to it is in 15 years time, not some Portsmouth type situation.[/quote]
I dont disagree, but there is only one reason we didnt sign a few more players this summer, and I think there are areas on the pitch we are short on, and we are winging it, hoping we scrape through. Totally agree on the sustainability and living within our means. But we own our ground, our training facilities and we are debt free. So I don''t think a small gamble would have been out of the question.

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I pointed this out on another thread but I am intrigued as to how Swansea operate. They seem to blow us out of the water wages wise, despite in Huw Jenkins not having a mega rich chairman.

They have recently been revealed as paying Michu £40k a week. They also paid Bony very handsomely - I''m told reliably that he actually took a small wage cut to go to Man City. Ayew is also reportedly on excess of £100k a week, which put West Ham off going for him.

I know they''ve made some whopping profits recently from the Bony and Allen deals but given that much of that has been reinvested into training facilities and other infrastructural improvements,.

That isn''t a criticism of board but it does make you wonder how that kind of budget is sustainable. Even with the Premier League money. Perhaps, these stories about Monk do have legs because relegation is simply not an option?

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[quote user="Bor"]I would rather have "poor" owners who are emotionally attached to the club, understand its value to the community and therefore manage the business side sustainably, than rich investors who see the club as a toy or as a financial investment for a period of time and may at any point leave us in the sh*te.
Long live Delia and MWJ.
Shame on the haters.
[/quote]

Why are people that talk about investment automatically labelled as "haters?"

I certainly don''t hate them but would welcome it.

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What are we, as a club, ever realistically going to win?
The Championship.
FA Cup - very unlikely
Carling Cup - whatever it is these days - unlikely
Premier League - no chance
European Qualification - no
So our business strategy may as well be: live within our means, don''t overstretch ourselves and do our best with what we can afford.
I am totally fine with that.

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[quote user="can u sit down please"]I think in an ideal world we''d all love a huge sum of money to come our way and for delia and Michael to stay involved.

We''d love the investor to have Norwich in his bloody like us. But does this person exist?[/quote]
I think if such a person existed then we would already be talking to him.
Another salient point is that rarely is money actually invested or just given to a football club, its usually given as loans, for an example of this see our "friends" down the road. Or Rangers.

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[quote user="Bor"]What are we, as a club, ever realistically going to win?
The Championship.
FA Cup - very unlikely
Carling Cup - whatever it is these days - unlikely
Premier League - no chance
European Qualification - no
So our business strategy may as well be: live within our means, don''t overstretch ourselves and do our best with what we can afford.
I am totally fine with that.
[/quote]
Totally agree with what you''re saying, but if spending a little more in the summer means we stay up this season, surely thats playing smart? And obviously I understand that spending money doesn''t guarantee success. I think we could have done with just a little more quality, and it wouldn''t have taken much to get it. I just don''t want this season to mirror the one where Ashton was too little, too late.

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[quote user="can u sit down please"]

I think people believe it may take us up a level like palace, saints and Leicester. I believe it would too.

If we fall short in May it will be because of the inability to strengthen key areas

Cue a reply of Leeds and Pompey....[/quote]You have always made it clear you would like to see us sold to an "investor" CUSDP. However, were you also very envious of the scum when Evans bought them out. Let''s have a little look at how that''s worked out...........Debt - gone from £32m to £86m+Stagnated in the Championship.Decent youngsters sold for mega-bucks (Wickham, Rhodes, Mings) but not re-invested.Promised Cat ''A'' academy promised but not materialised.Training ground transferred to offshore company.

For all his millions, Evans has only ever bought one player for £2m and all their signings now are either loans or freebies.Not very inspiring is it?This is a club where you said "They have shown more ambition in one day than we have 12yrs" when they appointed Roy Keanne.Can you honestly say you would be prepared to risk what we have knowing there''s more than an even chance of landing someone like Evans - or worse?

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[quote user="morty"][quote user="Bor"]What are we, as a club, ever realistically going to win?
The Championship.
FA Cup - very unlikely
Carling Cup - whatever it is these days - unlikely
Premier League - no chance
European Qualification - no
So our business strategy may as well be: live within our means, don''t overstretch ourselves and do our best with what we can afford.
I am totally fine with that.
[/quote]
Totally agree with what you''re saying, but if spending a little more in the summer means we stay up this season, surely thats playing smart? And obviously I understand that spending money doesn''t guarantee success. I think we could have done with just a little more quality, and it wouldn''t have taken much to get it. I just don''t want this season to mirror the one where Ashton was too little, too late.
[/quote]

Personally I think I have to agree with you there Bor, but you never know what could happen in the future - if we manage to achieve survival this season we might strengthen next season. I''m just wondering if we could ever become as strong as that team of the early 90s again

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I''m liking what Southampton are doing. I remember it was only a few years ago when they were in league 1 with us. They sold a lot of players but they have a good ethos there and they replaced the players they sold pretty well, plus the fact they have a great academy.

Also interested to see what Leicester do this year.

I''m afraid the answer is to invest wisely.

We have to find the next Vardy, Pelle, Mahrez etc; this requires quite a bit of luck.

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Not sure if I agree with Morty. We appeared to put some pretty big bids in this season, but the players we were after just didn''t seem interested in coming.

Managing to stabilise in the PL might help more than actual cash. Then again, wages could be an issue - but, once more, stabilisation would mean we could commit to a higher wage stucture. I do wonder if being closer to London would be a factor with some players!

Lots of factors really, but I think it would take at least a doubling of our shareholders'' wealth to make a real difference.

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[quote user="ron obvious"]Not sure if I agree with Morty. We appeared to put some pretty big bids in this season, but the players we were after just didn''t seem interested in coming.

Managing to stabilise in the PL might help more than actual cash. Then again, wages could be an issue - but, once more, stabilisation would mean we could commit to a higher wage stucture. I do wonder if being closer to London would be a factor with some players!

Lots of factors really, but I think it would take at least a doubling of our shareholders'' wealth to make a real difference.[/quote]
But the bids werent big enough, were they?
No, its just not money, theres the fact we are relegation favourites with a manager players may have not heard of. If I was a player coming to Norwich I would be concerned that I may be looking for another club come the end of the season.
But if the money was right....

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I realize that it''s water under the bridge now but, if someone either knows or has a fairly sound understanding of it, what was the appeal of the Turners involvement, both from their point of view and that of Delia and Michael? One would think that, initially, there was believed to be a fit for a given purpose and longer term objective and, if so, what was that? Then, ultimately, where did that fit fail to live up to expectations for one side or the other, or both? What was the learning of that experience from the Board''s perspective? Further, were the Turners genuine fans and do they still attend matches once in a while?

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[quote user="YankeeCanary"]

 

I realize that it''s water under the bridge now but, if someone either knows or has a fairly sound understanding of it, what was the appeal of the Turners involvement, both from their point of view and that of Delia and Michael? One would think that, initially, there was believed to be a fit for a given purpose and longer term objective and, if so, what was that? Then, ultimately, where did that fit fail to live up to expectations for one side or the other, or both? What was the learning of that experience from the Board''s perspective? Further, were the Turners genuine fans and do they still attend matches once in a while?

[/quote]Yankee, I don''t know what the Turners'' aims were, but - apart from their money - S&J (this was said publicly) wanted them to come in and reinvigorate the board and look at all the club''s operations with the eyes of newcomers. This ia a common tactic by owners to make sure things don''t get stale. And whatever the reason for the Turners'' departure, their going meant the end result was that we ended up with just what S&J had beein trying to avoid - a quintet of directors who were too chummy and so prone to overly-sentimental decisions. Hence the even more pressing need later on for Bowkett and McNally to come in and be the new Turners.

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I still maintain the biggest barrier to us signing "better" players is our wage structure, and that is down to the CEO managing the club responsibly and sustainably. We could well spend 10m on a player but if we can "only" pay 40k a week then any rival will usually have the upper hand.

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The investors are there, it''s more a question of how hard the club is prepared to look and whether it''s really a high priority for the Board. Without decent additional investment there will be no long term success in the Premier league,it''s only the teams with big investors that will be able to compete there.

The long term could well see an arrangement of no relegation from the Premier League, which without big money backers we will not be in.

If that is the way football progresses then I''m sure I would want to be in the top flight anyway

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I disagree Vanwink, I would think that the type of investor that the Board is looking for are not there at this time. Did they not hire a firm a few years back to find investors which ultimately proved fruitless? With the current setup, Norwich City exist quite nicely. With Bournemouth selling 25% of their club to private equity investors from the US, they have gone all in to try and stay in the PL. I believe it''s more likely they will be in the same situation as Portsmouth et al. than be successful.

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I think we are in a unique position being debt free and asset rich.

We could become a part" mutual" company by selling more shares to the fans and seeking secondary investment.

There are a few European teams that use this model and it would suit our business and location profile.

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