Has John Ruddy really ever been that good?

[Jezzard 17]

I don’t think so. And by good I mean good: an top goal keeper who makes match winning saves; a premier league regular. I’m not saying he’s bad. But having watched nearly every minute of his NCFC career, I just don’t know why he ever got an England cap or has never been close to being dropped. Just watch the 2010/11 review DVD to see his catalogue of mistakes in the first half of that season. Once he improved a little we hardly lost a match. In the premier league his inability to make distance with his dives means anything within 30 cm of the inside of the posts along the ground invariably led to a goal. That explains nearly all of Luis Suarez’s strikes. Twice a season you come across a goalkeeper that becomes an octopus that means a definite win becomes a defeat or draw. We’ve had that with Jack Buckland this season and Feb of 2014 we had this twice in a few weeks with Adrian at West Ham followed by Marshall at Swansea (4 points would sent us top half and kept us up). Can you honestly ever remember Ruddy doing that? Have we ever secured a ‘lucky’ win in the Prem when the other team have dominated us? No – all of our wins have been when we’ve been the better side. There is the probable exception of the draw an Anfield in 2011, but even then Ruddy dropped the ball in the last minute from a corner and a defender saved our point. I actually though Mark Bunn did as well, if not better than Ruddy – he made great distance on his dives (Spurs at home last minute). For me Ruddy’s strength isn’t his agility but doing the ‘simple’ things right; collecting crosses etc. But now this has failed him – West Ham, Man City and lots of other goals from headers (Newcastle, West Brom) as he now doesn’t seem confident to collect or punch. I also think he should have saved Otamendi’s bullet header into not the corner of the net – he got no distance on his dive; same for Bournemouth’s consolation. I really can’t see any merit in not playing Declan Rudd on Saturday. Over the course of a season I think he’ll get us one or two ‘lucky’ wins and the other ten on the field can win another six on merit.

[havemyhowsonit 0]

Finally. Someone agrees with me

He was ok when Dave Watson was coach other than that an average keeper

[E.L.F. 0]

He''s been a PL keeper for 4 out of the last 5 seasons and is on the fringes of the national team. We''ve seen lots of good and some howlers. We''ve had an average to below average to poor back line in those 4 PL seasons. He''s on a rough patch with a poor back line at this moment. A couple of first team starts for Rudd might be of benefit to both but I''ve always felt confident when John Ruddy starts and it hasn''t changed so far this season.

[Jacko 0]

He wasn''t great in the promotion year under Lambert and made a number of mistakes. I thought he did pretty well in our first season back in the Premiership. I thought he was absolutely superb in the early stages of the 2012-13 season but hasn''t hit those heights since rupturing his groin at Goodison.

Has that injury affected him? I don''t know but he definitely hasn''t got near those levels since in my opinion and he''ll only ever be an adequate goalkeeper at top flight level (if that) and nothing more.

The fact he has been nowhere near the England setup for some time, with Tom Heaton getting the call despite being a Championship keeper shows just where his standing within English football is right now - particularly given that Dave Watson (the England keeper coach) worked with him day in day out for a long time.

[BroadstairsR 2,273]

At this rate we''ll be going through the entire team.

Ruddy has been a great ''keeper for us for some time now.

Giving him a ''rest'' in favour of the promise of Rudd, which many of us would like to see happen, does not mean that his entire City career has to be put under the critical microscope.

[Prince of Darkness 0]

Had his day sell him in January and get an improvement in

He has lost enthusiasm confidence both his own and the crowd.

Either he has his mind on other things or there are problems in the coaching eg Watson is a great shout

[morty 0]

[quote user="BroadstairsR"]At this rate we''ll be going through the entire team.

Ruddy has been a great ''keeper for us for some time now.

Giving him a ''rest'' in favour of the promise of Rudd, which many of us would like to see happen, does not mean that his entire City career has to be put under the critical microscope.[/quote]^^^This.

[Iwans Big Toe 385]

As a member of the Goalkeepers Union, I never like to see a fellow goalie going through a rough time. What I like to see even less is people who have never played in goal at any level higher than a playground kick about spouting opinions as if they are some kind of expert on what is required to be a top ''keeper (I''m talking to you Alartz).Norwich City have a fine tradition of producing top goalkeepers going all the way back to Kennon and Keelan, both of which I am too young to have ever seen played. However I am old enough to remember Woods, who was in goal the first time I went to Carrow Road. Both he and Gunny were a class above any keeper that I have seen play for City since that time, and I don''t think Ruddy is quite at the same level as these two. That said, since Gunn was our regular number 1, JR is as good if not better than any other incumbent. He is at least on a par with Forster, Green and D Marshall (who lacked JR''s loyalty in relegation), and he is head and shoulders better than the bin dipping Judas Andy Marshall. Then to say that the perennial bench warmer Bunn, who in 15 years has only been able to hold down a regular first team spot for 3 seasons or so at Northampton Town, is as good as JR is just pie in the sky. And as for Sheffield, Walton, Howie, Lee-Barrett, Crichton, Lewis, Gallacher, Warner, Gilks, Camp and Nash, well between them  you will be lucky if the have made as many first team appearances as Ruddy has on his own.Now that''s not to say that I believe that JR, on current form, should be the first name on the team sheet. I think that giving him a rest and Declan a chance could be good for both of them. But don''t expect that Rudd will come in and we will immediately start look as defensively solid as the early 90''s Arsenal side of George Graham.The point that I am trying to make is that, although JR is not in the best of form at the moment, he has been, and I expect will be again, one of the first names on the teamsheet because he is a very reliable goalkeeper at Premier League level. Is he in the same class as Banks, Shilton, Schmeichel or Seaman (all of whom were prone to error)? No, and it is unlikely he ever will be. But you don''t start in over 100 top flight games (which he will have by the end of this season, possibly by the end of this month) and play for your country unless you are a very competent goalkeeper. JR has many things that he is capable of doing well, and I have faith that he will be able to get back to the high level of performance that he has shown in the past, after all form is temporary but class is permanent.

[GJP 79]

Think you''re kidding yourself if you think Ruddy is as good as Forster.

Probably a bit closer to Green but would probably still put Green ahead.

David Marshall is the most similar to Ruddy''s level.

[Platonic 1]

Yes he has.

That was easy.

Wasn''t so long ago he was being linked to Chelsea and a lot of pants were being wetted. I wouldn''t want to make the decision to drop him, but luckily I''m not the manager.

[Iwans Big Toe 385]

[quote user="GJP"]Think you''re kidding yourself if you think Ruddy is as good as Forster.

Probably a bit closer to Green but would probably still put Green ahead.

David Marshall is the most similar to Ruddy''s level.[/quote]There is very little difference in ability between any goalkeeper that has played for England recently. You make it sound like Forster is one of the best keepers in the world, which at the moment is just not the case. Now I''m not saying that Forster isn''t a very good keeper, he is, but the gap in ability between him and Ruddy is not as wide as you make it out to be. After all, Ruddy has proved over 5 years a more than able replacement for Forster once we were unable to secure his long term services.

[Iwans Big Toe 385]

[quote user="Platonic"]Yes he has.

That was easy.

Wasn''t so long ago he was being linked to Chelsea and a lot of pants were being wetted. I wouldn''t want to make the decision to drop him, but luckily I''m not the manager.[/quote]

[Y]

[......and Smith must score. 1,637]

[quote user="Platonic"]Yes he has.

That was easy.

Wasn''t so long ago he was being linked to Chelsea and a lot of pants were being wetted. I wouldn''t want to make the decision to drop him, but luckily I''m not the manager.[/quote]Yes, it''s strange how just a couple of years ago his name was being bandied about for a £10m move to Chelsea.I think AN will drop Ruddy for the Swansea game and in truth it''s not such a hard decision. The fans seem to think Rudd should be given a chance. If AN retains Ruddy he could play a blinder vindicating his selection but if he makes another howler the fans will be on the manager''s back for selecting him. If Rudd plays and does likewise the manager can take the plaudits or say it''s his inexperience showing through.A win-win for AN whatever happens in my opinion.

[GJP 79]

For me it''s quite clear Forster is the better ''keeper.

[KoromaCrab 0]

Give Rudd a chance - different style of keeper whom may very well surprise a lot of people.

[Salopian 1]

I would certainly fancy a more supple Rudd to twist and get to high corner shots as well as those on the ground, and to change direction quickly when needed.

At his best before his dreadful injury, I could understand why he was considered for England, and why the likes of Chelsea and Arsenal apparently rated him, if only as back-up keeper. Now he doesn''t command his area, and makes mistakes and misjudgments. I don''t think that he is anywhere near his best at the moment, for whatever reasons.

[hogesar 10,957]

Short memories from a lot of you on this thread...

The amount of people who were disgusted when Ruddy didn''t get called up to the International squad. The amount of people who thought we made the right decision getting Ruddy and not Forster. The amount of people demanding £15 million if Arsenal or Chelsea want him. Some of this was just over a year ago.

In reality, a decent Prem keeper who''s simply out of form at the moment.

[Guest]

Ruddy''s been a real asset to the club since he joined. Three and a bit seasons in the Premier League and two promotions isn''t a bad stat for a player.

Remember all those years we had no hope of even reaching the Premier League? Players of Ruddy''s calibre helped this club step up a notch. Enabling us to become competitive in the Championship and stand a chance of staying up in the Premier League.

Just because he''s had a bad recent run doesn''t make him a bad keeper. He might need a rest right now, but I hope he comes back stronger.

[Iwans Big Toe 385]

"What you''ve got to remember is that in some positions there''s

more competition than others, so the problem we''ve got is if you''re

taking a player out of the team you''ve got to replace him with someone

who''s either better or capable of doing the job. There''s no point in taking out someone to prove a point."

An Alex Neil quote from the BBC today doesn''t really give anything away as to who will start in goal tomorrow. From what he said though don''t be surprised if JR does start, but at the same time we could see Declan play if AN feels he is "capable of doing the job".

[Grant Holts Moustache 113]

Not been on here for a while but good to see nothing has changed and we still have people who think the best player is the one who isn''t playing!

Ruddy isn''t hitting the heights he can, but some of you need to take a step back and look at this a little more objectively. Against Man City for 80 odd minutes the guy looked decent and comfortable. He made a mistake as every single one of us here has in our jobs (yes being a footballer is just a job). I''m sure you would all be pissed off if you worked hard all week did well in every aspect but made one mistake then got slated like this. What about all the other times he makes saves at crucial times in games, have they been forgotten? He is just suffering a little with his confidence right now it''s no big deal and he will get over it as he always has.

As for the op and seeing every minute of his career and stating he has never saved us like these other keepers. You either don''t have the best memory or you don''t pay enough attention. Remember wins at home against Arsenal and United, a couple of 0-0s with Chelsea? Beating Tottenham away? How about last season Brentford battered us away and it was only because John kept us in it we could come out and have a go second half. What about the number of times at a goal up last season he prevented equalisers and we then went up the other end and scored.

As for whether Declan is the answer that''s another debate all together but what I have seen in the league cup games leads me to believe he is just as likely to make the same mistakes and has already this season. Only difference is they weren''t under the premier league spotlight so it doesn''t get replayed again and again on match of the day and sky.

[lake district canary 4,879]

[quote user="Dead Canary"]Not been on here for a while but good to see nothing has changed and we still have people who think the best player is the one who isn''t playing!

Ruddy isn''t hitting the heights he can, but some of you need to take a step back and look at this a little more objectively. Against Man City for 80 odd minutes the guy looked decent and comfortable. He made a mistake as every single one of us here has in our jobs (yes being a footballer is just a job). I''m sure you would all be pissed off if you worked hard all week did well in every aspect but made one mistake then got slated like this. What about all the other times he makes saves at crucial times in games, have they been forgotten? He is just suffering a little with his confidence right now it''s no big deal and he will get over it as he always has.

As for the op and seeing every minute of his career and stating he has never saved us like these other keepers. You either don''t have the best memory or you don''t pay enough attention. Remember wins at home against Arsenal and United, a couple of 0-0s with Chelsea? Beating Tottenham away? How about last season Brentford battered us away and it was only because John kept us in it we could come out and have a go second half. What about the number of times at a goal up last season he prevented equalisers and we then went up the other end and scored.

As for whether Declan is the answer that''s another debate all together but what I have seen in the league cup games leads me to believe he is just as likely to make the same mistakes and has already this season. Only difference is they weren''t under the premier league spotlight so it doesn''t get replayed again and again on match of the day and sky.[/quote]

Rudd will undoubtedly make mistakes too - all goalkeepers do from time to time - but if if Ruddy needs a game or two out of the spotlight, then Rudd is more than capable of doing a job - and it would be a good thing to be seen to have two good goalkeepers on our books, both capable of  excelent performances.  If Rudd can step up and be seen as being on a level with Ruddy, or better, then the competition for the first team place really hots up and as we know, competition for places is a good thing.  

[City 2nd 193]

ELF write:

He''s been a PL keeper for 4 out of the last 5 seasons and is on the fringes of the Engkand team........

On the fringes of the England team?

The Burnley goalkeeper has just been named behind Hart and Butland as third choice for the next internationals?

So Ruddy is nowhere near an England team, and isn''t likely to be any time soon!

[daly 556]

The problem with Ruddy is his inability to control the goal area, we continually hear of defenders losing their man and goals being scored from headers but if Ruddy was more commanding that would not happen. His kicking is bad plus his passing to Bassong and other back 4 players when they are under pressure is unbelievable. His shot stopping is good but that does not make up for the numerous mistakes this season.

Probably to do with his problems off the pitch

Give Rudd a chance he has always looked very competent in the cup games etc

[Iwans Big Toe 385]

[quote user="daly"]The problem with Ruddy is his inability to control the goal area, we continually hear of defenders losing their man and goals being scored from headers but if Ruddy was more commanding that would not happen. His kicking is bad plus his passing to Bassong and other back 4 players when they are under pressure is unbelievable. His shot stopping is good but that does not make up for the numerous mistakes this season.

Probably to do with his problems off the pitch

Give Rudd a chance he has always looked very competent in the cup games etc[/quote]Sir you must be commended on your attempt for dumbest post ever. Kudos.Players loosing their man and allowing a free header has nothing to do with Ruddy commanding his area. It is down to the individual defender to stay with his man, something a goalkeeper can not influence. As for JR''s kicking being bad, you obviously never had the honour of watching Andy Marshall punt goal kick after goal kick into the City stand.

[Canary Jedi 616]

Sadly he has not ever been that good. Ok but not great.

I still remember Butland''s performance against us earlier this season. Can you imagine Ruddy making all of those saves? Maybe some but not all.

[Well b back 3,663]

Would be interesting to see who was saying he was never any good by digging up the threads when he was rumoured to be going to Arsenal / Chelsea and when the Burnley goalkeeper was picked for England above him - just saying lol

Probably the same people as well who thought Harry Kane was the worst player they had ever seen.

This is a time to get behind our players which ever 11 start and finish not slag them all off and completely destroy the confidence that AN builds into the same players.

[Canary Jedi 616]

There is no debate that we must all get behind the players come kick off.

Doesn''t stop us sharing our thoughts, otherwise might as well close this forum.

The OP''s question is a fair one, whether you agree or not, there is clearly some doubt.

But it''s a mute point as we are unlikely to replace him with anyone better in the short term.

I really hope Ruddy can bounce back and be the keeper we all want him to be.

[chicken 0]

Aaaand once again the forum throws up some FIFA/PES players . . . . . who must know it all!!!

Ruddy is probably the best keeper (all round) that we have had play for us since Robert Green - who was the best we had had since Gunn.

Is Ruddy good enough to be a top 6 keeper? Well Chelsea/Arsenal wanted him. Arguably as understudy, although at that time, I doubt he would have been a straightforward understudy at Arsenal.

The thing that angered people when it came to England was Ben Foster being selected ahead of him. Talk about clangers - Foster''s kicking is barely Championship let alone Premier League or international.

Is he better than Hart? Not for me.

What about his errors? I thought the blame for the goal after his punch out the other week was a bit unfair. No one mentioned Tettey who could have moved towards the ball and shielded it or just hit it out but instead stood and watched as Ruddy chased his own punch out. Arguably, his biggest mistake was following it out.

I agree with others in terms of our back four but I also think there is something about our playing style. We tend to be prone to the counter attack which leaves our already shaky defence (at the moment) more exposed than you''d want. We are seeing more errors as a result.

But then football is a game of percentages. The keepers in the bottom half are typically more busy in terms of saves per game than those in the top half, even more so for teams in and around a relegation dog-fight.

That means that if a top 6 keeper is making, say, 6 saves a game - the chances are a bottom 6 keeper is making 12+. And with the percentages, they are likely to make more mistakes. It''s logical.

[Grant Holts Moustache 113]

LDC it could be good to see what Rudd can do especially as he has been around for a long while now. On the little game time Rudd has had it looks like Ruddy still has a bit more to offer so is rightly first choice. The call as to if dropping him will restore his confidence is difficult. It could go either way. On one hand it may be good to get a little break from the pressure, refocus and come back in. On the other hand could make him worse and he comes back nervous and puts too much pressure on himself.

I like that the Manager is showing confidence in him and sticking by him. Must feel good as a player when it''s not gone as well as you hoped recently. Only takes one good performance to lift himself and he''s back to it again. It looked like it was going to happen against Man City until his error.

[Jacko 0]

As I have said earlier in the thread John has been and still is a good goalkeeper for us. Particularly when you consider how little we paid for him that investment has been repaid many times over.

However, I think what concerns me about John is that we might already have seen the best of him. He was absolutely tremendous just before his injury and was a top 10 Premier League keeper in my opinion. He''s not returned to anywhere near that level since the Goodison injury.