Cerberus 0 Posted September 2, 2015 With Whittaker suspended, here''s my guess at what could happen in terms of the back four:Olsson (LB), Bassong LCB), Bennett (RCB), Martin (RB)Although a straight Wisdom/Whittaker swap is the obvious, AN''s choice seemingly boils down to whether Bennett is a better CB than Wisdom is a RB. I would argue that Bennett has more PL experience and is less of a gamble. After the performance of Martin and Wisdom (good going forward though) at the back on Sunday, AN must be considering whether Bournemouth with their very fluid attacking game will again make us look too slow/wooden. Given that we cant play Wisdom for the subsequent Liverpool game, picking this permutation offers the chance to keep the same back four for both games. After the stupidity of his sending off, I cant see AN letting Whittaker straight back into the team to cover for Wisdom''s ineligibility, so this could make sense. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cerberus 0 Posted September 2, 2015 Dann it! Martin not Marttin. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
firststeps 0 Posted September 2, 2015 No no no no no... I could go on. Always pick your strongest team, which in my opinion wouldn''t have Martin in it! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norfolkbroadslim 223 Posted September 2, 2015 It''s a no from me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cerberus 0 Posted September 2, 2015 First steps,Then your only alternative is to drop Martin completely, play Bennett at CB and Wisdom at RB. This was pretty much the team against Rotherham (Olsson''s absence excepted). I cant see AN dropping Martin, no matter how bad he plays, but by moving him to RB it is at least diplomatic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanaryOne 0 Posted September 2, 2015 Martin does not want to play right back , he has said time and time again he needs to be playing in the middle thats what Strachan wants . Move him to right back and he would probably sulk as much as Grabban , Agree with firststeps he best position is not starting at all . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cerberus 0 Posted September 2, 2015 I am no Martin fan either, but surely the success of our team is not dependent upon keeping Gordon Strachan happy. At some point AN is going to realise that he has to make a change - it may just take a few more 0-3 results or worse. Bournemouth provides AN with the opportunity to have the RB or nothing ''wee chat'' with him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Howson is now! 0 Posted September 2, 2015 [quote user="CanaryOne"]Martin does not want to play right back , he has said time and time again he needs to be playing in the middle thats what Strachan wants . Move him to right back and he would probably sulk as much as Grabban , Agree with firststeps he best position is not starting at all .[/quote]Whilst I''m not Martin''s biggest fan at CB, what gives you any inclination that he''s anything but a consummate professional? To imply that he would sulk does our captain a disservice. I may question his ability as a centre back at the highest level of English football, but I think it''s unfair to question his commitment to this club. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Highland Canary 76 Posted September 2, 2015 Martin is weaker at RB than CB. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nexus_Canary 1,013 Posted September 2, 2015 Very obvious that Martin is this years scapegoat then.Everything is evidently Rus Martin''s fault and its his fault we have already been relegated back to the Champ. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cerberus 0 Posted September 2, 2015 Highland,I think you are probably in the minority of fans who think this. He is a average RB, which is a much less critical position than CB in terms of conceding goals. If he is undropable as seems, I would pragmatically like to see him shifted back to RB rather than endure him at CB. I still can understand why Bennett is not preferred, especially as he is more commanding in the air which is where Martin looks really exposed (Pelle terrorised him). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Highland Canary 76 Posted September 2, 2015 Cerberus, I accept it is marginal. For what its worth, I think Whittaker is a better RB than Martin but neither should start in the PL. I too was at Southampton and, sadly, it felt just like a rabbit in the headlights Hughtonesc away game. It is the lack of strengthening of our defence which will be the primary factor in our relegation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,352 Posted September 2, 2015 Why compromise two positions? Martin and Bassong have become a pair. They play well together. Why split them up? I''ll be disappointed if we do but accept the manager knows best. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AJ 1,218 Posted September 2, 2015 It''ll be wisdom at right back Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cerberus 0 Posted September 2, 2015 Highland,I was there too on Sunday and completely agree. Whittaker looked like he had concrete in his boots and Tadic isn''t an out and out speed merchant. Wisdom looked good going forward, but does not convince me as a defender. As for Martin, he cant compete in the air, lacks any pace and lacks positional awareness. Bassong is good enough and I think it is time for Bennett to be given his chance. After all, AN keeps saying that he picks the team on form and if players keep making mistakes, they wont play. Martin hasn''t played well for ages, and that includes the run in at the end of the season.Nigel,We are shipping too many goals. Southampton were off key until they scored and they made us look completely wooden. We are conceding two goals a game at present and we haven''t yet played any of the top teams. We cant afford to need to score 3 goals per game on average to survive. Something has to change, although I appreciate that our rotation options are limited after yesterday. We look OK on the left hand side when Olsson returns, but we are wide open exposed on our right flank, especially when Redmond plays. Opposition teams will quickly work this out and exploit our weakness, particularly when they can deploy pace. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lake district canary 4,520 Posted September 2, 2015 Martin is a centre back. Get used to it. He is also captain. Get used to it. He could play right back in an emergency, but we have Whittaker, Wisdom and even Eliot Bennett who could play there, rather than take Martin off CB duty - because he is a centre back. Perhaps if people repeat it enough it will sink in.Martin is a centre back.Martin is a centre back. ........zzzzzzz Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Monty13 2,173 Posted September 3, 2015 I''d rather play Martin at CB than Bennett, Martin is far more mobile and better with the ball at his feet than Bennett which is what we need for the way we are playing.We got tonked 3-0 by a better side away from home with 10 men, wish people would just grow up and accept that happens across a season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Canary001 0 Posted September 3, 2015 Anybody believing Martin is a center back probably believes in fairies too . And we didn''t get tonked 3-0 by a better team we got tonked 3-0 by a team without a league win and a Europa exit to their name who were pretty poor but made us look like a league 1 side . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lake district canary 4,520 Posted September 3, 2015 [quote user="Canary001"]Anybody believing Martin is a center back probably believes in fairies too .[/quote]Gordon Strachan, Alex Neil, Neil Adams, most championship sides we played against last season where we had one of the best defences in the league............only Bn''mth and Middsbro let in less goals than we did. Yes, we let in goals last season, yes, defenders make mistakes, that is what happens in football matches, but anyone who doubts Martin is a centre back, does so not because he is not a centre back, but because they don''t like him for some other reason. Maybe he doesn''t fit their image of a centre back, or they don''t like his personality or something, or they can''t handle the idea that a player can change position in a team. Martin is a centre back.Martin is a centre backMartin is a centre backM...... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
firststeps 0 Posted September 3, 2015 Yes, Martin is our centre back, he''s just not a very good one! I don''t believe in Father Christmas, Fairies, Ghosts or the Bogey Man, but I do believe we need better than Martin. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pete 318 Posted September 3, 2015 Wisdom to start Bournemouth lost two LB''s in last game also winger Gradel out. Need to attack down the right Wisdom may have looked limited at Soton but will support Redders in attacking the Boutnemouth left. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Norfolk Mustard 94 Posted September 3, 2015 Russell Martin does not sulk!He can also play two positions - he simply prefers one more than the other. From a selection point-of-view that seems quite handy to me... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hoola Han Solo 448 Posted September 3, 2015 "Russell Martin is not a centre back"Alex Neil thinks he is.Gordon Strachan thinks he is.Neil Adams thought he was.Paul Lambert also played him there at times.It''s amazing that so many of you football ''experts'' think your opinion is more valid than many qualified football coaches. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Great Drinkell 50 Posted September 3, 2015 we''ve lost Whittaker replace him with Elliott Bennett and the rest of the back 5 remains the same. if Olsson is fit then we could move Brady further up.we''ve got a good squad to pick from, certainly not the best in the league but good enough to keep us in the league which is our objection this season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jacko 0 Posted September 3, 2015 This conveniently ignores the fact that Martin was actually poor when played at right back last season. He is definitely now a centre back who can do a turn at right back if needed. So the idea that we should disrupt a settled centre back pairing to play Martin in a position where he looks far from convincing is just plain silly. I fully expect Wisdom to come in for Whittaker and for me that is the correct decision. I would also argue that if Martin is as inadequate at centre half as people say, then why did his fellow professionals vote him into the PFA team of the year last season? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cerberus 0 Posted September 3, 2015 The logic of not splitting up an established partnership makes sense IF it is working. However, we are already averaging 2 goals against per game. All of the relegated teams last year conceded fewer than this (both Burnely and Hull less than 1.4 per game), so unless we are going to all out gung-ho for goals and try to outscore the opposition, we need to do some different at the back. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigFish 1,975 Posted September 3, 2015 [quote user="Cerberus"]The logic of not splitting up an established partnership makes sense IF it is working. However, we are already averaging 2 goals against per game. All of the relegated teams last year conceded fewer than this (both Burnely and Hull less than 1.4 per game), so unless we are going to all out gung-ho for goals and try to outscore the opposition, we need to do some different at the back.[/quote]You keep banging on about 2 goals a game as if it is an objective measure of the defence. Two of the goals were scored when the matches were already decided and three went in when we were down to 10 men. Yes, a defensive upgrade would have been better but there is now way the defence is as bad as you make out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HazzaJet 252 Posted September 3, 2015 When Martin first arrived he played as a RB. However, he has not played there recently and has got used to playing a CB partnership with Bassong so I reckon that he is probably now better as a CB than RB. Wisdom will play RB Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
city4eva 202 Posted September 4, 2015 [quote user="Nexus_Canary"]Very obvious that Martin is this years scapegoat then.Everything is evidently Rus Martin''s fault and its his fault we have already been relegated back to the Champ.[/quote]pleased you have come to terms with it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grefstad 0 Posted September 4, 2015 Could not care less about what Martin himself wants, or what fecking Strachan wants. We dont give a shite about Scotland.Norwich is not a club where Martin can grow/improve his international ambitions for Scotland, if it does not suit us.He should play where AN wants him to play. If that is at RB, then he has to play there, or face the chop.I am fairly certain that it will be a straight Wisdom for Whittaker swap though.R.Benno has been injured for a long time, and will likely be eased back via some U21 and the WBA cup game.Our backline will have it somewhat easier with Gradel out injured, but Wilson will be a pain for both Martin and Bassong, espescially Martin. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites