it isn't bad....

[Syteanric 1]

we sold a Reserve team player and got £6 million for him.Palace game apart Johnson had been on the bench for ALL of our premiership games. it very much looked to me that he wasn''t going to be first choice this season. Tettey, Dorrans, Hoolahan, Howson all ahead of him in the pecking order with Mulumbu to come back and the experience of Gary O''Neil.I''m interested to hear from everyone who should make way for Johnson, If Mulumbu had been fit would Johnson even had made the squad on a match day?Last week you were all crying out for a bit more width, Neil has gone and got it with Jarvis.Last week you all wanted a striker - Neil went out and got Mbokani.The knee jerk has been hilarious. We''ve gone from looking like World beaters before Southampton to looking like Carpet beaters to some of you on here. Southampton apart we haven''t been out played by anyone. Beaten a "relegation Rival" in Sunderland.  Drawn against a Stoke side who will finish top 8, at a push top 6.we have the quality in the side to stay up easily. Jerome and Hooper have both scored goals at this level, Mbokani will be hungry to prove and is lower risk than p*ssing £9 million away like we did with RVW.if Bradley Johnson decided he didn''t want to bench warm all season he might have asked for a move. we do not know. what we do know is that Alex Neil took us up, inherited a downwardly mobile squad and turned its fortunes. he Knows what he''s doing.one question, how much SHOULD we have sold Johnson for?

[lharman7 39]

jas the barclay king wrote the following post at 02/09/2015 9:15 PM:

we sold a Reserve team player and got £6 million for him.

Palace game apart Johnson had been on the bench for ALL of our premiership games. it very much looked to me that he wasn''t going to be first choice this season. Tettey, Dorrans, Hoolahan, Howson all ahead of him in the pecking order with Mulumbu to come back and the experience of Gary O''Neil.

I''m interested to hear from everyone who should make way for Johnson, If Mulumbu had been fit would Johnson even had made the squad on a match day?

Last week you were all crying out for a bit more width, Neil has gone and got it with Jarvis.

Last week you all wanted a striker - Neil went out and got Mbokani.

The knee jerk has been hilarious. We''ve gone from looking like World beaters before Southampton to looking like Carpet beaters to some of you on here. Southampton apart we haven''t been out played by anyone. Beaten a "relegation Rival" in Sunderland. Drawn against a Stoke side who will finish top 8, at a push top 6.

we have the quality in the side to stay up easily. Jerome and Hooper have both scored goals at this level, Mbokani will be hungry to prove and is lower risk than p*ssing £9 million away like we did with RVW.

if Bradley Johnson decided he didn''t want to bench warm all season he might have asked for a move. we do not know.

what we do know is that Alex Neil took us up, inherited a downwardly mobile squad and turned its fortunes. he Knows what he''s doing.

one question, how much SHOULD we have sold Johnson for?

Oh dear, think you may have massively missed the point haven''t you!

Please do better to keep up.

[ricardo 7,328]

[quote user="jas the barclay king"]one question, how much SHOULD we have sold Johnson for?[/quote]Its the wrong question.Every player has his price when you need to sell but we didn''t, and we certainly didn''t use the money to bring in anyone of similar ability.What you should be asking is who is in charge of our transfer policy and why the hell do they still have a job after yesterdays utter humiliation.

[Steelsilver 0]

POTS should not have been sold..wtf ..are you that dumb to know that, if you managed any team would you sell the player who did most to get you promoted..no his move if he requested it should have been blocked just as all the ones we bid for were blocked by their managers, but we have a Yes Yes sale policy. For me..Bradley over Tetty anytime, one who doesnt score for one who scores regulary...logic speaks here

[HertsCanary93 222]

I''ve said it elsewhere, Johnson started the first game and has appeared in every game since. He definitely had a part to play this season. We can''t base a decision on who is ahead of who this early on. Last season Johnson was ahead of Dorrans, things can change depending on form and injuries.

We lost the first game and so we changed the system, we then played well and so kept the system. At Southampton we were poor and I would have been very surprised if Johnson hadn''t started against Bournemouth.

As for what we should have sold him for, we shouldn''t have sold him for less than £10m. Is he worth that? Probably not. But is Afobe worth £15m, is Mings worth £8m, is Stones worth £40m? It''s not a question of worth any more, unless we are desperate for the money we shouldn''t be selling useful players unless it is overwhelmingly in our favour.

I actually agree with you on our signings, I''m happy with them bar the lack of a CB. I just think the selling of Johnson is an awful piece of business.

[Steelsilver 0]

everyone has a bad game, unfortunately AN thought because Bradley played bad once that it was going to be same through the season..too quick to judge i think but AN is starting to show flaws.. When the goals start flying in for Derby i want to see the ones who are saying good business start commenting then....as for value yes 10m after add ons but he should still be a city player

[Branston Pickle 3,631]

Jas, you are indeed missing the point - there is clearly no room for anything but doom and gloom, on here, and the very idea that we aren''t that badly off and/or somehow humiliated just won''t wash.

In the real world, of course, life goes on. We have a stronger squad than before the window opened; we do appear to have an issue in defence which can hopefully be addressed - but does offer an opportunity for someone to step up if needed.

[Tumbleweed 106]

Maybe it isn''t a case of being "bad", just perplexing:

1. Grabban wants out, we keep him

2. BJ was POTS, so we sell him

3. We have lots of wide players, but we get another

4. RVW plays against Rotherham, but gets loaned out for a season just days later

5. The guy who didn''t get valuable game time against Rotherham, but is linked with a move to Sheff Weds, stays

6. We don''t buy a CB where we have minimal cover even though we have a preponderance of strikers and central midfielders.

7. The first signing made by AN is out on loan and hardly getting a look in.

Normally I can see some sort of strategy, but all this just seems rather random.

[Well b back 3,175]

[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="jas the barclay king"]one question, how much SHOULD we have sold Johnson for?[/quote]Its the wrong question.Every player has his price when you need to sell but we didn''t, and we certainly didn''t use the money to bring in anyone of similar ability.What you should be asking is who is in charge of our transfer policy and why the hell do they still have a job after yesterdays utter humiliation.[/quote]

lol they werent playing in the same position. If you really know what you claim to know on various threads you would know what a holding midfielder does and why they dont score loads of goals. When Johnson was scoring goals for fun he was playing down the left ( couldnt retain his position in central midfield ). It worked well but we have moved on. We signed Brady and Jarvis on loan ( would you leave Brady out to accomodate Johnson ). We signed Dorrans and Mlumbo and have Tetty. Which of these would you be leaving out ? I voted for Johnson as pos but if you read this message board prior to last year and even at the beginning of last season lots of people have turned from calling him a league one player and the scapegoat that could not pass the ball.

£6m in this instance is good business

[gitto 0]

Johnson wanted to go

[HertsCanary93 222]

Source? And why?

I just can''t see Johnson being the kind of player to not want to fight for a place in the team. He knows he was only a goal or an injury away from a run of starting games.

[PurpleCanary 5,553]

[quote user="Tumbleweed"]Maybe it isn''t a case of being "bad", just perplexing:

1. Grabban wants out, we keep him

2. BJ was POTS, so we sell him

3. We have lots of wide players, but we get another

4. RVW plays against Rotherham, but gets loaned out for a season just days later

5. The guy who didn''t get valuable game time against Rotherham, but is linked with a move to Sheff Weds, stays

6. We don''t buy a CB where we have minimal cover even though we have a preponderance of strikers and central midfielders.

7. The first signing made by AN is out on loan and hardly getting a look in.

Normally I can see some sort of strategy, but all this just seems rather random.[/quote]To take your points;1) Grabban was the first-choice lone striker ahead of Jerome until he got sent off at Rotherham, and Jerome seems to have struggled this season. Grabban may have wanted to leave but there are any number of examples at Norwich City and elsewhere of players being reintegated.2) Johnson was deservedly player of the year but looked at cold-bloodedly that was in the Championship and in two positions. In his more natural position of central midfield we had already got in Dorrans and Mulumbu, and Odjidja-Ofoe has showed signs of coming good. In Johnson''s much less natural position of left-wing we had got in Brady, who is a proper left-sided midfielder, and now Jarvis (ditto). Would you pick Johnson ahead of Brady on the left wing? 3) If, as seems the case, Elliott Bennett is not regarded by Neil as PL-quality, then we only had Redmond until Brady turned up. Getting Jarvis gives us reasonable cover. I wouldn''t say we have too many now; it looks to me more like the right number.4) That can be explained by giving van Wolfswinkel some game time to keep him fit and attract suitors, as happened. I said at the time fans who thought that meant he was back in Neil''s plans were simply deluding themselves.5) Not sure about Hooper needing game time, but we may have been looking to offload him.6) Quite. The one failing, although there is still time and scope for a free agent.7) Quite. I think that was a sentimenat purchase by Neil that probably won''t last.Even if some events don''t fit the picture I think there was a successful strategy, to thin out an over-populated central midfield to allow for more quality out wide. And - at least half-successfully - to sharply upgrade our strikers. If there was a plan, as there seemed to be, to upgrade central defence then it didn''t work.

[jeagle 0]

"Johnson wanted to go "

^^^This

Firtsly (and I am not saying he is money motivated, as when I met him he seemed like a devent bloke) he will be on as much, if not more money at Derby (they are paying big money, £20k pw+ to Ince, Weimann, Bent and Shackell to name just a few) and he got a 4 year deal at 28 years old.

Secondly, he will play 90% of the games in a very good squad who will push for the league, rather than stay and be a bit-part player for a team that won''t be challenging for any honours.

Thats why he refers to it as an easy decision!

[Syteanric 1]

[quote user="Steelsilver"]POTS should not have been sold..[/quote]Grant Holt, Chris Sutton, Robert Snodgrass, Lee Croft, Andy Marshall, Bradley Johnson.all sold within a season or 2 of winning POTY....if we block his move and he does a Grabban then what? 2 unhappy players out of the side, losing value.Tettey is far better defensively than Johnson, doesn''t matter how many goals you score if you let in 1 more at the other end.as has been said elsewhere, he was playing wide left. Olsson is on his way back, Brady is in the side, Jarvis is here.who makes way for Johnson?his time had come, we got a good price. enjoy the rest of the season.

[Van wink 2,994]

gitto wrote the following post at 02/09/2015 2:46 PM:

Johnson wanted to go

I suspect you are right Gitto.

What I''m finding hard to understand in the Jonno situation is that AN spoke so highly of him last season, through this tenure hear not just at the end of the season, he was an AN sort of player.

He may have been dropped from the starting 11 but he was still a go to man and used as a sub. A big character in the dressing room and for me summed up what we seemed to have built under AN.

So what has happened,why did he want to go if that is indeed the case.

Was AN content for him to go?

[ricardo 7,328]

[quote user="jeagle"]"Johnson wanted to go "

^^^This

Firtsly (and I am not saying he is money motivated, as when I met him he seemed like a devent bloke) he will be on as much, if not more money at Derby (they are paying big money, £20k pw+ to Ince, Weimann, Bent and Shackell to name just a few) and he got a 4 year deal at 28 years old.

Secondly, he will play 90% of the games in a very good squad who will push for the league, rather than stay and be a bit-part player for a team that won''t be challenging for any honours.

Thats why he refers to it as an easy decision![/quote]Its always an easy decision when your boss tells you that you are no longer required.On a cold afternoon in December when we need to get down to fighting in the trenches against a big team and we bring Jarvis on I''m sure we will all feel the warm glow given off by that six million quid in the bank vaults.

[ROBFLECK 132]

Ricardo, first time I''ve read you being so bitter, but I completely agree with you... The only thing we can do is support the team now, but I don''t think we have to agree with the clubs owners/board and their utter failure to produce yesterday... I''m just hoping Mulumbu is back soon, along with a new striker that wants to give his all, to get his carreer back on track.

[Indy 3,283]

It''s that bad, if Johnson steps down a division and his statement of Derby''s ambition tells you all you need to know about the lack of focus from a doddery old board, with little old Norwich syndrome.

Can''t believe anyone can be happy with a West Spam reject who really is past his sell by date and an ageing striker who''s never played at this level.

Add to that we have spent less than any of our relegation rivals after 4 of the last 5 seasons in the top flight it''s a very poor state.

It''ll be interesting if we go behind against Bournemouth how the crowd reacts. But it''s not so good really is it? All summer wasted by not buying any quality to improve our championship starting 11.

[Herman 9,692]

Bilge as normal Indy. We got three better midfielders than Johnson during the window for starters.

[Barclay seats 4849 the 3rd 0]

[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="jas the barclay king"]one question, how much SHOULD we have sold Johnson for?[/quote]Its the wrong question.Every player has his price when you need to sell but we didn''t, and we certainly didn''t use the money to bring in anyone of similar ability.What you should be asking is who is in charge of our transfer policy and why the hell do they still have a job after yesterdays utter humiliation.[/quote]

Totally agree with Ricardo on this !! Who was responsible ??

As for "Jiz" the Barclay king 😂😂😂😂 what a waste of space ,,, about time you abdicated mate ,,, or actuLly attended a game to get into the swing of things down at Carrow Road maybe ?

[Crabbycanary3 994]

POTS is SO last (Championship) year

IF people on here could pick our strongest team, where would they put BJ? I know you have to account for injuries etc, but you don''t make that your main reason for keeping someone. They have to offer the quality to play in the system the Manager wants. I could not see BJ fitting in to this years matchday team. He was off the pace against Palace, and hasn''t made any inroads since, and with Mulumbu to come back, someone already playing will make way, which will in turn push BJ one step further away form getting changed on a Saturday (Sunday/Monday!)

BJ was our go to left footed/sided player last year, now we have Brady and Jarvis. Sorry, but that is football. I loved everything BJ has done for this Club, but it''s obviously not paining me , as much as others, that he has gone

[lake district canary 4,530]

Johnson went off the boil towards the end of last season. I believe he was truly motiovated at the start of last season, revelled in the extra time and  space he had in the championship and had a terrific run up to about the beginning of April.  Still gave it everything after that, but lost a little effectiveness.  He is less skilfull than most midfielders we have now and would not have got many starts this season.

£6 million for a player who is not going to feature much is a good deal. I went from deeply criticising Johnson in the premiership (under Lambert as well as you know who)  to him being my favourite performer last season.  Co-incidence that it was in a league lower last season? I don''t think so.   Excellent deal for us and for Derby (unless they play him centrally....). 

Should we have sold him because he was our POTS?  Irrelevant, I''m afraid.   When all players are fit, he would be well down the list for a game start.  No one would want to see him languishing on the bench - or not even doing that - he deserves better - and he''s got it.  Good luck Jonno, will watch your career with interest.

[Jim Smith 2,314]

As i''ve said before the problem is not really Johnson being sold per se. i agree he wouldn;t have played much althoigh think he would have been useful as back up. i do worry a bit about the team spirit angle but ultimately we can cope without Johnson. The two issues are:

1. selling Johnson when we didn''t need to AND then not investing decent money in new players; and

2. Complete failure to strengthen the defence despite having 3 months to do so.

[Indy 3,283]

[quote user="Herman "]Bilge as normal Indy. We got three better midfielders than Johnson during the window for starters.[/quote]

Really, where are they? Mulumbu injured till november and an sting cast off who nobody wanted in Jarvis, and the only improvement to our squad in Brady.

If you think it''s been a good transfer window then your delusional and if you genuinely believe this squad is good enough then great.

But then those who won''t have a word said are those who attack other posters, wonder why?

[Herman 9,692]

Mulumbu, Dorrans and Brady. Sorry they don''t fit your agenda. And Jarvis is actually a good back up player with plenty of Prem experience.

[Dean Coneys boots 1,398]

Forget Johnson- that was just the emotional icing on the cake. A favourite player leaving WHEN WE HAD FAILED IN THE WINDOW.

As it happens BJ going is easily defended. Spending the lowest ne t amount without getting much in is what is indefensible. Seeing rivals spending on improving as we stand still is indefensible. Seeing our defence unchanged when there is money in the bank is indefensible. Leaving us a couple of injuries away from farce at the back is indefensible. We had a pathetic window- that is the point. Grabbing rejects from relegation rivals is not how you attack the PL.

[whoareyou? 0]

I suspect Johnson had a get-out clause in his contract that if someone came in and offered £6 million+ he could go.

[ricardo 7,328]

[quote user="whoareyou"]I suspect Johnson had a get-out clause in his contract that if someone came in and offered £6 million+ he could go.[/quote]We need for the truth to emerge. If there is anything in these rumours that are flying around then the club may have been in a no win situation.I was very sad to see Johno go but if he is the one that blotted his copybook then while I would still be unhappy I would at least have some understanding as to why this all happened.

[It's Character Forming 1,160]

It would certainly help me if I could understand the reasons why BJ has gone. Quite a few comments that he wouldn''t have been a first choice but it''s a squad game in the Prem and he''d definitely merit a place in the squad.

What that doesn''t explain is how we''ve been left so short of cover at CB. I don''t like the sound of this giving scope for someone else to step up... just reminds me of Simon Charlton having his chance at CB under Worthy.

[Van wink 2,994]

ICF

"What that doesn''t explain is how we''ve been left so short of cover at CB. I don''t like the sound of this giving scope for someone else to step up... just reminds me of Simon Charlton having his chance at CB under Worthy."

"Giving scope for someone to step up" is garbage.

It mighty off but the chances are it wouldn''t, we shouldn''t need to be having to take that risk.

Why make the managers job even harder.