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Ricky

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Didn''t I read that he was hoping to play his way into the Holland squad?

I kept faith with him for much longer than most, blamed Hughton, English conditions, injuries and even Robert Snodgrass, but subsequents since he went out on loan and a fairly undistinguished spell back here pre-season, when we were subject to the ''same old,'' tested my resolve to the full.

A big, big waste of funds and the only consolation is that the PL and beyond has many examples of expensive foreign flops, and much more so than our mistake.

Let''s hope this is our last for some time. Mbokani is a different kettle of fish altogether it would seem. It might turn out to be a pity if it was the Club''s nervousness resulting from the RVW episode that meant we only ventured as far as a loan with Mb, or may be there were other factors.

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I remember reading an interview with someone at the club saying he was coming on in training and was still adapting to the style of football etc. so will have to be weaned in and await his chance.

As it''s been said a million times, really nice guy but unless he can pump in the goals will never make it as a striker. Silly thing is he was offered the chance to go back to where he was previously successful and turned them down over money. Unfortunately says it all for the logic of some footballers.

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In his defence over the wage issue.

Ricky isn''t very good. We know it and I think privately he knows it . He''s probably realised that this is the last really big contract he may get if his downward career trajectory continues. The contract is made even bigger financially by the relative strength of the Pound versus the Euro at the moment.

So you can understand why he''s going to milk it for every penny and he''s not going to take a wage cut. I wouldn''t either if I was him for the exact same reasons.

The only thing that did surprise was that I did expect Sporting to come back with an offer late on in the last window that was far more advantageous to the player and much less advantageous to Norwich. I personally would have entertained that if we''d got him off the wage bill but it never materialised.

Unfortunately, we''re going to have accept that Hooper and Ricky were expensive mistakes, draw a line under them and move on. Both have been pretty poor (Hooper less so) and costly but they haven''t been Dani Osvaldo bad.

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Cambridge, I get your points. I don''t think Ricky is a bad footballer, or maybe it was just he was in a good team who did all the work for him. Footballers don''t turn bad overnight admittedly, but he did perform well in Portugal and was in the fringes of the Dutch squad.

Hooper though, I massively disagree. He was never a mistake and whilst yes, he didn''t set the world alight, he scored a number of crucial and very good goals last season, and I think he will still do well for us this year once he''s over his injuries

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I agree with your logic on Ricky and it''s something I''ve struggled to get my head around for ages - i.e. how someone with the goal scoring record he had prior to joining us, with 2 Dutch caps could offer so little by way of physical, technical or general goal scoring/poaching attributes.

But unfortunately, it''s not worked for him in an (admittedly poor) Norwich side, it''s not worked for him in a decent St Etienne side, so if it doesn''t work him in Spain then his days as a top flight footballer in one of Europe''s front line leagues must be numbered you think would think. That''s a lot of different managers and styles of football all ultimately yielding a very similar result.

Hooper has obviously made a greater contribution to Norwich''s fortunes as you rightly point out and maybe calling his signing a mistake is harsh and unfair on my part. However, he palpably isn''t the mobile, strong and effective lone striker we were crying out for in the summer transfer window back in 2013 and we are still looking to deploy now under Alex Neil.

And ultimately, when you are Norwich City you can''t really afford to get that kind of signing wrong on that kind of financial outlay - unfortunately we did it twice and got relegated as a result. We''re arguably still also feel the pinch from it financially to this day.

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RVW is simply a good player who has lost his way.  It happens to all sorts of players and the ones that can find their form and confidence again - like Chris Martin - are ones to be admired.   Wherever he goes though, RVW will be a bit part player until he can get a run of games in a side where he can re-kindle his goal scoring form.  Real Betis already had good in form strikers and he has to fight his way through that, so on a career level, he may have been better going to a League 1 or equivalent side to find his feet.  He will be one to watch with interest.

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He obviously had a good spell in Portugal but evidence is certainly suggesting he just plain ain''t that good. 
I said AN didn''t rate him and wouldn''t play him that season. I was right, as was many others. Just annoying we''re still paying him to be useless, even at another club.

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[quote user="Cambridge Yellow"]In his defence over the wage issue.

Ricky isn''t very good. We know it and I think privately he knows it . He''s probably realised that this is the last really big contract he may get if his downward career trajectory continues. The contract is made even bigger financially by the relative strength of the Pound versus the Euro at the moment.

So you can understand why he''s going to milk it for every penny and he''s not going to take a wage cut. I wouldn''t either if I was him for the exact same reasons.

The only thing that did surprise was that I did expect Sporting to come back with an offer late on in the last window that was far more advantageous to the player and much less advantageous to Norwich.
I personally would have entertained that if we''d got him off the wage bill but it never materialised.

Unfortunately, we''re going to have accept that Hooper and Ricky were expensive mistakes, draw a line under them and move on. Both have been pretty poor (Hooper less so) and costly but they haven''t been Dani Osvaldo bad.[/quote]The average weekly wage in the Portuguese top flight is just under £5,000. Sporting, being one of the top clubs, might pay nearer to £10,000 but supposedly van Wolfswinkel''s wage at Norwich City is £40,000. If that latter figure is roughly right then there was no way Sporting were going (without help from us) to get close to matching it.

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[quote user="lake district canary"]RVW is simply a good player who has lost his way.  It happens to all sorts of players and the ones that can find their form and confidence again - like Chris Martin - are ones to be admired.   Wherever he goes though, RVW will be a bit part player until he can get a run of games in a side where he can re-kindle his goal scoring form.  Real Betis already had good in form strikers and he has to fight his way through that, so on a career level, he may have been better going to a League 1 or equivalent side to find his feet.  He will be one to watch with interest.

[/quote]Do me a favour this guy has, and never will have an ounce of ability. For some unaccountable reason several City supporters seem to be cutting this individual too much slack whilst castigating others after they have one bad game!I have heard every excuse in the book....just accept it, he ain''t no good!

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Cambridge Yellow"]In his defence over the wage issue.

Ricky isn''t very good. We know it and I think privately he knows it . He''s probably realised that this is the last really big contract he may get if his downward career trajectory continues. The contract is made even bigger financially by the relative strength of the Pound versus the Euro at the moment.

So you can understand why he''s going to milk it for every penny and he''s not going to take a wage cut. I wouldn''t either if I was him for the exact same reasons.

The only thing that did surprise was that I did expect Sporting to come back with an offer late on in the last window that was far more advantageous to the player and much less advantageous to Norwich.
I personally would have entertained that if we''d got him off the wage bill but it never materialised.

Unfortunately, we''re going to have accept that Hooper and Ricky were expensive mistakes, draw a line under them and move on. Both have been pretty poor (Hooper less so) and costly but they haven''t been Dani Osvaldo bad.[/quote]The average weekly wage in the Portuguese top flight is just under £5,000. Sporting, being one of the top clubs, might pay nearer to £10,000 but supposedly van Wolfswinkel''s wage at Norwich City is £40,000. If that latter figure is roughly right then there was no way Sporting were going (without help from us) to get close to matching it.[/quote]

I think Sporting have got much more financial muscle than you give them credit for these days. They were financially destitute when they initially sold Ricky but have since received decent financial backing and are generally regarded as being one of the big hitters in that league once again.

I''d be very surprised if £10k is the ceiling of what they can do wages wise. The Portuguese League has about a dozen tiny clubs (in a league of 18) which attract gates of less than 5,000. So I therefore don''t think Sporting can in anyway be considered the ''average''. I''d expect them to be significantly above that. Although I readily admit I know very little about Portuguese football, so please correct me if I am wrong.

The other way you attempt to match the weekly wage (or at least get close to it) is to basically forego any serious transfer fee and in turn that money is passed onto the player in wages instead. That was what I was actually expecting - Norwich to get a nominal transfer fee with the saving by Sporting being passed onto Ricky in wages. But it didn''t materialise and Ricky, of course, ended up at Betis. So we''ve effectively deferred the problem for another year.

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[quote user="Cambridge Yellow"][quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Cambridge Yellow"]In his defence over the wage issue.

Ricky isn''t very good. We know it and I think privately he knows it . He''s probably realised that this is the last really big contract he may get if his downward career trajectory continues. The contract is made even bigger financially by the relative strength of the Pound versus the Euro at the moment.

So you can understand why he''s going to milk it for every penny and he''s not going to take a wage cut. I wouldn''t either if I was him for the exact same reasons.

The only thing that did surprise was that I did expect Sporting to come back with an offer late on in the last window that was far more advantageous to the player and much less advantageous to Norwich.
I personally would have entertained that if we''d got him off the wage bill but it never materialised.

Unfortunately, we''re going to have accept that Hooper and Ricky were expensive mistakes, draw a line under them and move on. Both have been pretty poor (Hooper less so) and costly but they haven''t been Dani Osvaldo bad.[/quote]The average weekly wage in the Portuguese top flight is just under £5,000. Sporting, being one of the top clubs, might pay nearer to £10,000 but supposedly van Wolfswinkel''s wage at Norwich City is £40,000. If that latter figure is roughly right then there was no way Sporting were going (without help from us) to get close to matching it.[/quote]

I think Sporting have got much more financial muscle than you give them credit for these days. They were financially destitute when they initially sold Ricky but have since received decent financial backing and are generally regarded as being one of the big hitters in that league once again.

I''d be very surprised if £10k is the ceiling of what they can do wages wise.
The Portuguese League has about a dozen tiny clubs (in a league of 18) which attract gates of less than 5,000. So I therefore don''t think Sporting can in anyway be considered the ''average''. I''d expect them to be significantly above that. Although I readily admit I know very little about Portuguese football, so please correct me if I am wrong.

The other way you attempt to match the weekly wage (or at least get close to it) is to basically forego any serious transfer fee and in turn that money is passed onto the player in wages instead. That was what I was actually expecting - Norwich to get a nominal transfer fee with the saving by Sporting being passed onto Ricky in wages. But it didn''t materialise and Ricky, of course, ended up at Betis. So we''ve effectively deferred the problem for another year.[/quote]I am not an expert either, but I did notice a story from a year ago that Sporting were prepared to increase the wages of one of their star players, William Carvalho, from £1,000 a week (which admittedly seems low) to £10,000 a week to fend off interest from Barcelona and Man Utd. If that upper figure is roughly true for a player now with 13 caps for Portugal it is hard to see Sporting offering a less valued player in van Wolfswinkel as much, let alone more. But even if Sporting had been prepared to pay RvW £10,000 or even £15,000 a week that would - which was my point - still be vastly below his NCFC wage.

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[quote user="Derby Canary"][quote user="lake district canary"]RVW is simply a good player who has lost his way.  It happens to all sorts of players and the ones that can find their form and confidence again - like Chris Martin - are ones to be admired.   Wherever he goes though, RVW will be a bit part player until he can get a run of games in a side where he can re-kindle his goal scoring form.  Real Betis already had good in form strikers and he has to fight his way through that, so on a career level, he may have been better going to a League 1 or equivalent side to find his feet.  He will be one to watch with interest. [/quote]Do me a favour this guy has, and never will have an ounce of ability. For some unaccountable reason several City supporters seem to be cutting this individual too much slack whilst castigating others after they have one bad game!I have heard every excuse in the book....just accept it, he ain''t no good![/quote]
Well, you don''t play for Holland without "an ounce of ability".  I think RvW''s problem is he is nowhere near physical or quick enough for the Premier League, and this probably extends to the German league, Dutch league etc.  He may still flourish in a Portuguese league where other than three or four teams you are playing against poor quality opposition - or the Scottish league, maybe? - but we will hopefully learn from our mistakes here.
Let''s face it, we all wanted him to come good - Norwich City don''t sign too many Dutch internationals.

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The Dutch league is 5hit. If you cant score there then you have massive problems. Altidore, Kezman, Alfonso Alves were all prolific over there.

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Purple, I think we''re at slightly crossed purposes because that''s the point I have been driving at here all along.

Clearly there''s a disparity in wages between Norwich and Sporting. Whether it''s as dramatic as £15k p/w versus £40k p/w is anyone''s guess and speculation.

But even if we take that example. That was exactly why I expected Sporting to come back with a late offer that was less advantageous to us and more advantageous to the player in an to attempt to bridge the gap wages wise.

So for example, if they were prepared to offer us around £3 million for Ricky (that''s a hypothetical figure I''ve plucked out of thin air) then if we were prepared to reduce our asking price to say £1 million then clearly that''s a saving for Sporting of £2 million.

That effectively equates to around £20k p/w for the next 2 years - 2 years being the remaining duration of Ricky''s contract with us. That ''saving'' by Sporting is passed onto to the player (by paying him that additional £20k p/w in wages). Hence they can then justify breaking their wage structure to sign him.

Ultimately, it didn''t happen so it''s totally academic. Personally, (if it was possible) I''d have been looking to cut some deal similar to that with Sporting because if he fails again this year. Then we''re left paying his wages again next season for very little return.

I admire the optimism of supporters like LDC (I''m not being condescending when I say that, I genuinely do) but I have seen no evidence since he joined the club in 2013 that he''s about to ignite and start knocking in the goals again, which would provoke a decent bid from Real Betis.

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When Newton was banging on about RVW not being prepared to take a pay cut I tried to do some ''research''. I realise that the figures quoted in the media are basically guesswork but it seemed to me that what RVW''s agent was asking for would have been a pay cut. I think the problem was that Sporting thought the wages had been agreed, but then the agent asked for more-but still less than what we were paying.

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I can remember seeing something at the time about a 25% pay reduction but not sure if that was what was offered or what was being requested.

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I think that no matter how many angles you look at it from, whatever league he has played in prior, or since, or how much blame you apportion to Hughton, it was a stupid purchase. He was never physically suited to the British game, or suited to the formations we played then, and play now.

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[quote user="morty"]I think that no matter how many angles you look at it from, whatever league he has played in prior, or since, or how much blame you apportion to Hughton, it was a stupid purchase. He was never physically suited to the British game, or suited to the formations we played then, and play now.[/quote]Looking back - and this surprised me - of van Wolfswinkel''s 16 starts eight were alone up front but eight were alongside another striker - either Elmander (five times) or Hooper (three times). You can argue that neither helper was Premier League quality and that even with two strikers Hughton''s tactics were ultra cautious. But if, as seems to be the one argument left in his favour, van Wolfswinkel''s only virtue was as a goalscorer who needed someone to take the weight of the attack then we did indulge him in that to a reasonable extent.

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To me, Ricky would have been best deployed off a larger, ball winning striker, Elmander kind of fitted the bill, but never really came up to scratch, I never felt it was a role he was comfortable with, he just didn''t have the workrate in his locker.

Ricky never stood a chance as a lone striker, though given our midfield options now, he would have fared better now, than then, I think.

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He''s just not that good at kicking a ball.
Or running with it. Or after it. Or holding onto it.

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In a parallel universe, Ricky scored 25 goals for City in 2013-14 and joined Chelsea for £45m - City bought Charlie Austin to replace him and the message board melted down at our lack of ambition.

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