Twenty Is Plenty Protest.

[Ivor Know 0]

Lappin - Everyone would love a price reduction across the board, but it''s never going to happen, unless the Government decides to intervene. (Not that I''m suggesting they should - I''d much rather football got its own act together).

So, what are the options?

1) Sit there, do nothing, and moan about the price of football generally.

2) Sit there, do nothing, except moan about those who try to make a difference?

3) Pick an area which you may have a reasonable chance of winning, namely, reductions on the cost of away tickets?

None are perfect, however doing something is surely better than nothing?

[The ghost of Michael Theoklitos 0]

[quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="Thomo"]Unless you have some way of getting a discounted ticket price that the rest of us are unaware of, then we ARE all in this together. Anyone who wishes to travel away to see their club, regardless of the team they support has to pay a ridiculous price for a ticket.[/quote]Nobody HAS to pay ridiculous prices Thomo, they choose to. Tomorrow is a good example. Travelling Ipswich fans (normally around 1,000) are taking 4,500 to Old Trafford for a League Cup game to watch what will probably be United''s reserve team and the tickets? £45.00 each.They are obviously not ALL in it together, or has no-one told them? [/quote]Meanwhile NCFC are playing Premier League opposition at Carrow Rd tomorrow, with tickets for a tenner, and kids for a pound.Most of the away end has been now allocated back to home support, meaning West Brom must be bringing less than a thousand. There are also thousands of home tickets still available.And this is why the ''Twenty is plenty'' campaign will never work. People vote with their feet. Premier League football is a premium product. As lap said above, thousands are prepared to go to Old Trafford for an away day at a premium price, but a cheep night out at Carrow Road - at half the price of the ''20 is plenty'' campaign - just doesn''t fit the bill for many. Why should clubs drop their prices if - when an affordable option comes along, it is not being taken up?I wish the campaign all the luck in the world, but I think their fighting a losing battle.

[Thomo 0]

Well said Ivor. Hope to see you, at the protest. Come and introduce yourself, its always nice to put a face to people with the same views

[nutty nigel 7,509]

But I still don''t get why it''s the away fans who deserve what would be basically a 50% reduction in ticket prices. Now I was an away fan for periods of years at a time when my circumstances allowed. But when they didn''t the luxury of being an away fan was one of the first things to go. When we are away fans we tend to believe, with some justification I guess, that we are in some way more important than the fan who only goes to home matches. But of course we are not. And since my circumstances changed a couple of years ago I have to be more and more careful to make sure I can afford a home ticket. In fact if the interest free credit scheme was to go then I think that would be it for me. I guess supporting a team at home is like paying for a TV and the licence fee but also supporting the team away would be like adding Sky Sports. Some people can only afford the TV and licence. So in that regard would it be right for the tv licence to be used to subsidise others Sky subscriptions? Not a very good analogy I know but I''m sure you can see where I''m coming from.

 

So if Norwich ticket prices for home and away fans in equivalent seats averaged at £40 and the sold 2,500 to fans of other clubs for £20 who would make up the difference? Would we take it out of the football budget and be less competitive with our rivals. Or would we hike the ticket price to the home fans to make up the shortfall?

 

The driving force behind all financial decisions is having a competitive playing squad. This is the prime market force that controls ticket prices and all other revenue. Every time the TV deal increases it just puts the players in stronger positions and the extra money goes to them. I think 95% of all football fans would agree with my view that it''s far too much money. But if our club unilaterally cut the player budget to bring tickets down to a more realistic level 95% of Norwich fans would be up in arms about us not being able to attract the right quality of player for the PL. In fact we get that now so how much worse would it be if we had less money!

 

Thommo, I miss you guys in the Barclay even though you were often protesting about something and treated my buddy Worthy appallingly[;)] Standing at the back of E Block would be where I''d choose to watch football and being stuck in "the blankets" is poor in comparison. I don''t support twenty''s plenty as it''s targeted to away fans. I hope you understand my reasons. I would support an initiative to reduce all tickets. If home tickets were reduced then away tickets would be reduced in line as the clubs are not allowed to charge more. (Although some found loopholes). But I fear it would take legislation to do it because of the market forces within the game.

 

 

[lappinitup 629]

"So, what are the options?""1) Sit there, do nothing, and moan about the price of football generally."People will always grumble about prices. Rock concerts, airshows, major sporting events, Royal Norfolk Show etc, but they still turn up in their thousands anyway.

"2) Sit there, do nothing, except moan about those who try to make a difference?"

I haven''t seen any criticism of the people involved with the protest, just an inquiry as to how many fans they represent. "3) Pick an area which you may have a reasonable chance of winning, namely, reductions on the cost of away tickets?"

I still don''t think you have a chance of winning this particular argument. As I said earlier in the thread, how can the club charge a different price for away fans sitting at one end of the Jarrold and yet charge City fans more sitting at the other end? And is it even legal?

[Ivor Know 0]

Lappin - The current Premier League rules are specific - the home club can''t charge visiting supporters "higher" prices than those charged to it''s own supporters for comparable seats. There is absolutely nothing to prevent prices being lower in the away section.

[lappinitup 629]

[quote user="Ivor Know"]Lappin - The current Premier League rules are specific - the home club can''t charge visiting supporters "higher" prices than those charged to it''s own supporters for comparable seats. There is absolutely nothing to prevent prices being lower in the away section.[/quote]I understand that Ivor, but do you think it would be fair charging one lot of supporters more than another lot for exactly the same thing?

[Ivor Know 0]

Yes, absolutely, if it was an agreed policy across the Premier and Football League, why not?

You''re looking for reasons not to do something and if you follow your logic of a fair price for all, what''s next on the agenda, doing away with concessions?

[OldRobert 38]

[quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="Ivor Know"]Lappin - The current Premier League rules are specific - the home club can''t charge visiting supporters "higher" prices than those charged to it''s own supporters for comparable seats. There is absolutely nothing to prevent prices being lower in the away section.[/quote]I understand that Ivor, but do you think it would be fair charging one lot of supporters more than another lot for exactly the same thing?[/quote]But Lapps, when you all went to Wembley for example, you all paid a plethera of prices, dependent on where you sat, to watch exactly the same thing.  The fact that one lot were City and the other ''Boro was irrelevant.  There was no home or away as such, was there?  You all watched the same thing for a multitude of different prices.  No doubt everyone thought they were all too much (lol) but nobody complained, so presumably you all thought it was fair then?  Just saying.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

[quote user="OldRobert"][quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="Ivor Know"]Lappin - The current Premier League rules are specific - the home club can''t charge visiting supporters "higher" prices than those charged to it''s own supporters for comparable seats. There is absolutely nothing to prevent prices being lower in the away section.[/quote]I understand that Ivor, but do you think it would be fair charging one lot of supporters more than another lot for exactly the same thing?[/quote]But Lapps, when you all went to Wembley for example, you all paid a plethera of prices, dependent on where you sat, to watch exactly the same thing.  The fact that one lot were City and the other ''Boro was irrelevant.  There was no home or away as such, was there?  You all watched the same thing for a multitude of different prices.  No doubt everyone thought they were all too much (lol) but nobody complained, so presumably you all thought it was fair then?  Just saying.[/quote]

 

As we do at Carrow Road now. But at Wembley us and Boro fans paid the same for equivalent seats. Boro didn''t pay half price in their end.

[OldRobert 38]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="OldRobert"][quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="Ivor Know"]Lappin - The current Premier League rules are specific - the home club can''t charge visiting supporters "higher" prices than those charged to it''s own supporters for comparable seats. There is absolutely nothing to prevent prices being lower in the away section.[/quote]I understand that Ivor, but do you think it would be fair charging one lot of supporters more than another lot for exactly the same thing?[/quote]But Lapps, when you all went to Wembley for example, you all paid a plethera of prices, dependent on where you sat, to watch exactly the same thing.  The fact that one lot were City and the other ''Boro was irrelevant.  There was no home or away as such, was there?  You all watched the same thing for a multitude of different prices.  No doubt everyone thought they were all too much (lol) but nobody complained, so presumably you all thought it was fair then?  Just saying.[/quote]

 

As we do at Carrow Road now. But at Wembley us and Boro fans paid the same for equivalent seats. Boro didn''t pay half price in their end.

[/quote]I didn''t express myself properly NN.  Some people as I understand paid £300 for a seat at Wembley, some £60.  That''s much more than half price difference.  They are watching exactly the same thing albeit from further away, but probably with the advantage of the big screens.  I don''t see the difference between that and away fans paying half what the home fans pay at a normal league match.  I don''t necessarily agree with it, I might add, but every ''event'' has the enormous disparities in seat prices usually dependent on where you are in relation to either stage or pitch.  If you were charged £20 to go to away games then it''s 6 of one and half a dozen of another isn''t it? Or am I barking up the wrong whatsit?

[nutty nigel 7,509]

I know buddy. But a £60 seat in the Norwich end was £60 for the equivalent seat in the Boro end. Same with the more expensive seats.

We could be playing the binners with a binner paying £20 for a seat across a gangway from a City fan paying £40 if this goes through.

[TIL 1010 4,722]

[quote user="Thomo"]The BEP was formed by three of us, and we have no membership scheme. It remains 3 of us, [/quote]Thanks for the response Thomo but my expression one man and his dog looks about right then. Please accept that social media responses and e-mails is a totally different ball game to turning it into foot soldiers on the ground. Getting involved from the comfort of an armchair whilst behind a computer screen takes little effort and i would be amazed if 10% of those you claim have been in contact with you show their faces on Saturday. Believe me i talk from experience in such matters.

[lappinitup 629]

[quote user="Ivor Know"]Yes, absolutely, if it was an agreed policy across the Premier and Football League, why not?

You''re looking for reasons not to do something and if you follow your logic of a fair price for all, what''s next on the agenda, doing away with concessions?[/quote]Concessions for the elderly, disabled, children, etc are valued in all walks of life and not what we are discussing here. We are talking about two sets of fans in equivalent seats either end of the Jarrold Stand paying vastly different prices. If you can convince me why a casual Norwich fan at the Leicester game should pay £45 to sit at one end of the Jarrold Stand whilst a Leicester fan should only pay £20 to sit at the other end then I''ll be happy to join your protest.

[Ivor Know 0]

It''s not for me to convince you of anything, Lappin, nor to try to make a case for you to join the protest.

If you don''t agree with it, that''s your choice.

Looks like we''ll just have to agree to disagree on the ways and means to deal with the current situation.

There seems a growing consensus that the status quo will have to change. Whether twenty is plenty proves to be the solution, or not, time will tell.

OTBC

[nutty nigel 7,509]

Was hoping you or Thommo would answer my points Ivor. Can''t get in the Barclay to speak to you guys myself anymore but Thommo knows I would if I could.

 

However. I feel that if this protest is successful it would be against my own interests. The fact that it appears to have so much prominent backing worries me greatly. If away fans ever pay less than me for equivalent seats at Carrow Road I will be protesting and I doubt I will be alone.

 

 

[OldRobert 38]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]I know buddy. But a £60 seat in the Norwich end was £60 for the equivalent seat in the Boro end. Same with the more expensive seats.

We could be playing the binners with a binner paying £20 for a seat across a gangway from a City fan paying £40 if this goes through.[/quote]That''s enough for me Nutty, consider me a convert.[;)]

[Thomo 0]

Sorry Nigel, I just hadn''t been back on the forum. Ultimately, its about driving the cost of watching football down, and as Ivor has stated, we need to win the small battles first. Get more people back in the stands, rather than watching at home on the tv.Tackling the cost of away tickets is just the first step.See you all Saturday, i''ll be the one stood on my own with my dog.

[TCCANARY 263]

[quote user="Thomo"]Sorry Nigel, I just hadn''t been back on the forum.

Ultimately, its about driving the cost of watching football down, and as Ivor has stated, we need to win the small battles first.

Get more people back in the stands, rather than watching at home on the tv.

Tackling the cost of away tickets is just the first step.

See you all Saturday, i''ll be the one stood on my own with my dog.




[/quote]

 

How much is it to bring pets to games?

 

Do all pets pay the same? Would it be cheaper to bring a hamster instead of a dog?

 

Are away pets getting a bad deal?

 

 

[Ivor Know 0]

Nutty - I don''t see why it would be against your personal interests? The price of your ticket wouldn''t alter as a consequence.

If it happens, and it''s a big if, it would be a new concession to away fans.

Seems that some have no objections to the principle of concessions, unless someone else is gaining something to which they feel they should also be entitled?

For me it''s not about personal gain, it''s about doing something for the benefit of "the football family" in general!

[TIL 1010 4,722]

Found your website this morning Thomo and a tad surprised nothing has been posted on it for two and a half months and also being on Facebook i looked you up and note you describe yourselves as a " Norwich City Supporters Group ". I always thought supporters groups had some form of structure and accountability but obviously not ?

[Ivor Know 0]

[quote user="TCCANARY"]

[quote user="Thomo"]Sorry Nigel, I just hadn''t been back on the forum.

Ultimately, its about driving the cost of watching football down, and as Ivor has stated, we need to win the small battles first.

Get more people back in the stands, rather than watching at home on the tv.

Tackling the cost of away tickets is just the first step.

See you all Saturday, i''ll be the one stood on my own with my dog.




[/quote]

 

How much is it to bring pets to games?

 

Do all pets pay the same? Would it be cheaper to bring a hamster instead of a dog?

 

Are away pets getting a bad deal?

 

 

[/quote]

TCCanary - you should know by now, "all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others."

[Thomo 0]

TIL, We are a group of supporters, who the club recognise as a supporters group. If the club are happy with our structure, i''m happy with it. People within the club know who are and have methods to contact us if and when they wish to, that goes for Joe Ferrari, the ticket office, right up to Mr McNally. If we choose to increase our numbers officially, then we will lean on our contacts in the other groups for advice. We tend to use Twitter and facebook rather than the website as it gets far more hits.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

Thommo / Ivor...

The reasons it would be against my interest are clearly stated in yesterday''s post. Rather than making it personal please could you respond to them.

I''m all in favour of reducing the cost of football but not for just one group of fans.

_--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When I invited local fans groups to take part in the NCFSC quiz I didn''t find your contact details so sorry for that. The details are on the top of this board and if you let me know an email address for thegroup I''ll send you a proper iinvitation. I''d love it if you can take part.

[Thomo 0]

As i said above Nigel, away fans would just be the start.We want to drive the price of football down on the whole.Are you aware that for the leicester game the club are charging £45 for home areas. Leicester fans are paying £35 as their club are subsidizing it for them. So whilst the club may still be getting the money, you would be paying a tenner more than the bloke in the away end already.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

Thanks buddy. But that''s still not the point. Norwich City are charging the same for those seats and banking the same money. I couldn''t care less if Leicester are subsidising that cost for their fans just the same as it would be no skin off my nose if Lapp''s Grandad gave him a tenner towards his ticket.

The reasons i don''t agree with it are laid out in yesterday''s post. And its not about personal jealousy of someone getting something cheaper than me. I really am not like that

[Kick it off 0]

Why £20? Away fans have a choice - pay or don''t pay.

If I am in the stand and have paid £40 to watch my home team play, then so should the away fans, or is there game and experience different from mine ???. I do not have the luxury to go to away games so this would only benefit our rival teams which does not seem right.

What we should be campaigning for is lower costs for the half time sausage rolls .. Maybe call it the £2.50 is Nifty campaign - anyone interested?

[Ivor Know 0]

You did actually use the words "if this protest is successful it would be against my own interests", in your previous post, hence my question.

Notwithstanding this, the headline figures are widely quoted. Namely, the team currently finishing 20th in the Premier League gets £64m from TV deals. From next season it will be a minimum of £99m.

NCFC ticket revenues in the last accounts were circa £15m. There is no breakdown of those receipts between home & away supporters, but, it''s not unreasonable to assume that it''s circa 10%, or £1.5m gross.

The loss of revenue would be less than £1m pa and clubs are suggesting they can''t afford it, yet they''re just about to get a £25m increase in revenues from the next TV deal from next season.

In this context, it''s not really about affordability at all, nor about NCFC having an uncompetitive squad if all clubs agreed to the deal.

For the benefit of doubt, I don''t believe anyone is suggesting that NCFC do this unilaterally. It''s a football wide problem, as has been mentioned several times already.

[Ivor Know 0]

In my last post I mentioned a £25m PA increase in revenues from next year. This should, of course, read £35m PA.

[mj 0]

I think some people may be missing the point?

As an Away ST holder of 10 years+, it costs an absolute fortune to travel regularly and "support" your team.

I think its reasonable an away fan pays less to get into a game when considering fuel costs, time off work (sometimes unpaid) etc.

This is from someone who also travels 300 miles for each home game.

Any help with ticket pricing is appreciated by regular away travellers, believe me.

Also, as an exile, financial support for away games should come directly off ticket price as discounted travel from Norwich really isn''t helpful to many who don''t live there.