Season's First Six Pointer

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,023]

Not struggling at all, if Norwich and Newcastle were not playing each other this weekend and Norwich won their game and Newcastle lost theirs the end result would be exactly the same as if Norwich beat Newcastle, it really is as simple as that.......

[lappinitup 629]

[quote user="BroadstairsR"]a defeat against Newcastle at this stage of the season will have far more impact upon general confidence and levels of expectation, and do more damage to the moral of players and supporters alike[/quote]It will certainly liven this message board up with long gone absentees suddenly re-emerging in their droves with that familiar cry.......We''re doomed I tell ye, doomed, DOOMED! [:''(] [:''(] [:''(][:D]

[westcoastcanary 0]

TCCanary wrote: "What a load of piffle, football is unpredictable that''s what draws

people to it, we have 30 games where we have a realistic chance of

getting points."Yes, the outcome of any particular match is unpredictable, almost as unpredictable as the toss of the proverbial coin. Do you really think that means it is realistic to expect us to take points from our matches against Man City, Arsenal and Chelsea?

[Tumbleweed 106]

Exactly, wcc. The chances of winning each game are not the same. It is why you would get odds in favour of a City win if we play Watford at home, but the odds of a win at the Emirates will be heavily in favour of Arsenal. And that will be based in fact also. We, as with our peers, will win far fewer games against the top sides than the bottom sides. So the likelihood is that we will get the overwhelming majority of our points from those teams outside the Champions League chasing sides.

The unpredictability comes from an unexpected win against a top team, just as much as an unexpected defeat against a lower level side. But overall we have to look at gaining as many points from outside the top teams. Unpredictability works both ways- having lost at home to Leicester do we now have to beat an Arsenal/Man City/Chelsea etc to redress the balance again?

The 6 pointer thing comes from us gaining 3 points and depriving them of 3 points in one single match, it''s a pretty simple concept and is a term used to denote a more important game than normal, an opportunity to really steal a march on the competition.

[ricardo 7,385]

[quote user="Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB"]Not struggling at all, if Norwich and Newcastle were not playing each other this weekend and Norwich won their game and Newcastle lost theirs the end result would be exactly the same as if Norwich beat Newcastle, it really is as simple as that.......[/quote]However, the fact is that they are playing each other and if one wins it deprives the other of the points in a winnable game.To pretend that all games are alike in their winnable potential is a facile position to support. They plainly are not and taking the points from someone who is likely to be a fellow contender for relegation gives you a double bonus. There will always be surprise wins against superior opposition and over the course of a season nearly all the lower teams manage to record one or two of these.You only have to look at the results in our last season in the Premier League against Villa and WBA. Had we won either of those home games instead of losing them we would have stayed up and they would have gone down. Taking all three points against a top team would have made no difference, we would still have been relegated.

[Katie Borkins 1]

[quote user="hogesar"][quote user="TCCANARY"]

 

It looks like it would be much simpler if the Premier League awards 3 points for a win and takes 3 points away for a defeat creating the six point ''swing''. They could also awards points for aesthetic interpretation, an assessor in the stands could decide if a team has been a aesthetically pleasing and at the end of the season a flair play league could determine who plays in a new competition called the Flairs Cup.

[/quote]

This would only work if they also awarded points based upon the amount of running a team does. [;)]

[/quote]

And don''t forget the panel of supporters who will give points back to the opposition when we win a game "we didn''t deserve to".

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB"]Not struggling at all, if Norwich and Newcastle were not playing each other this weekend and Norwich won their game and Newcastle lost theirs the end result would be exactly the same as if Norwich beat Newcastle, it really is as simple as that.......[/quote]However, the fact is that they are playing each other and if one wins it deprives the other of the points in a winnable game.To pretend that all games are alike in their winnable potential is a facile position to support. They plainly are not and taking the points from someone who is likely to be a fellow contender for relegation gives you a double bonus. There will always be surprise wins against superior opposition and over the course of a season nearly all the lower teams manage to record one or two of these.You only have to look at the results in our last season in the Premier League against Villa and WBA. Had we won either of those home games instead of losing them we would have stayed up and they would have gone down. Taking all three points against a top team would have made no difference, we would still have been relegated.[/quote]

All that is true, but it is equally facile on a sporting level any kind of pychological approach that one game is more importnt than any other - for whatever reason.   The only sensible approach to game of football is to treat every game as if it is the most important game you have ever played - if  a manager started messing with people''s heads saying one game in the premier league is more important than another, then they are lessening the importance of one win against another win, which is patently ridiculous.  Three points is important whoever you are playing against.    If a by product is that a win is also a six pointer, then all well and good, but to start second guessing which clubs will be at the bottom in October, is ludicrous. 

[morty 0]

Of course one game can be more important than another.

[lake district canary 4,531]

  Not in October.

[ricardo 7,385]

[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="ricardo"][quote user="Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB"]Not struggling at all, if Norwich and Newcastle were not playing each other this weekend and Norwich won their game and Newcastle lost theirs the end result would be exactly the same as if Norwich beat Newcastle, it really is as simple as that.......[/quote]However, the fact is that they are playing each other and if one wins it deprives the other of the points in a winnable game.To pretend that all games are alike in their winnable potential is a facile position to support. They plainly are not and taking the points from someone who is likely to be a fellow contender for relegation gives you a double bonus. There will always be surprise wins against superior opposition and over the course of a season nearly all the lower teams manage to record one or two of these.You only have to look at the results in our last season in the Premier League against Villa and WBA. Had we won either of those home games instead of losing them we would have stayed up and they would have gone down. Taking all three points against a top team would have made no difference, we would still have been relegated.[/quote]

All that is true, but it is equally facile on a sporting level any kind of pychological approach that one game is more importnt than any other - for whatever reason.   The only sensible approach to game of football is to treat every game as if it is the most important game you have ever played - if  a manager started messing with people''s heads saying one game in the premier league is more important than another, then they are lessening the importance of one win against another win, which is patently ridiculous.  Three points is important whoever you are playing against.    If a by product is that a win is also a six pointer, then all well and good, but to start second guessing which clubs will be at the bottom in October, is ludicrous. 

[/quote]That may well be true Morty but the value of any one victory can only be seen in retrospect. Look at the results from 2013/14, we lost 21 games. Only two of those losses had either been reversed would have made any difference to us being relegated or not.Quite clearly some games are more important than others.

[morty 0]

[quote user="lake district canary"]  Not in October.

[/quote]On that we agree.Don''t get used to it mind.

[ricardo 7,385]

[quote user="lake district canary"]  Not in October.

[/quote]Since it''s importance can only be divined in retrospect, it doesn''t matter what the month is.

[93vintage 16]

It''s more a six pointer for Newcastle than it is for us. The only sure thing about the game is that Steve McLaren will be on the phone at some point during the game, hopefully he''ll be ordering a taxi.

[ruthers1 0]

Can''t believe (well I can) that some of you fail to ''get'' what is meant by a ''six-pointer'' - beggars belief on a football forum.

In actual fact after the wally with the brolly''s latest assessment that Newcastle''s first 8 games have been nothing more than a pre-season and their season starts for real against us you could argue it''s even bigger than a six-pointer now.

Anyway, can''t see us scoring the 3 goals we''ll need to win - as usual hope I''m wrong!!

[Katie Borkins 1]

I''d love you to explain, using your own logic, how Sunderland away or Bournemouth at home were not also "six pointers" (leaving aside whether a "six pointer" exists or not) - 

If Newcastle away is one, then why weren''t the other two?

[Herman 9,756]

"- as usual hope I''m wrong!!"

Why do I never believe people who write this?

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="ruthers1"]Can''t believe (well I can) that some of you fail to ''get'' what is meant by a ''six-pointer'' - beggars belief on a football forum.

In actual fact after the wally with the brolly''s latest assessment that Newcastle''s first 8 games have been nothing more than a pre-season and their season starts for real against us you could argue it''s even bigger than a six-pointer now.

Anyway, can''t see us scoring the 3 goals we''ll need to win - as usual hope I''m wrong!![/quote]

With McLaren talking like that, all he is doing is putting pressure on his own players.  He can tell the Newcastle players what he likes, it makes no difference to an Alex Neil side.  As long as we turn up and play at our best, Newcastle will struggle to win the match.  Oh and right now, it''s still only worth three points.  Regarding "six pointers" - the signifcance of any one result can be discerned in May not  October.  At this stage of the season, you just go all out to win every game, regardless of who it is against.  Placing special significance on any one game more than another at this time of the season is potty.  They are all winnable and if we win enough we will get enough points to see us right. Any other psychology to football is frought with all sorts of problems.  Keep the psychology simple - go all out to win, whoever it is against.   Thinking about six-pointers is for doom and gloom merchants and negative nancies, not footballers or positive fans. 

Alex Neil has commented that when he arrived at CR that nervousness from the terraces was too noticeable - and it is something I have been saying on here for years (and been ridiculed for it).  He also said recently that he thought that poor mentality had largely gone.   That is good, but thinking too much about where we are in the table at this stage is counter-productive when there are so many matches left (unless we were where Newcastle are now).  As with Lambert and Hughton, we were nearly always just a few points off bottom three places, but also nearly always just a few points off mid-table. That is how it always is for clubs below the top seven or eight clubs.  It''s a lottery and looking over your shoulder at clubs behind you is just showing  that nervousness again. Look up for goodness sakes. 

 

[Feedthewolf 4,846]

[quote user="ruthers1"]In actual fact after the wally with the brolly''s latest assessment that Newcastle''s first 8 games have been nothing more than a pre-season and their season starts for real against us you could argue it''s even bigger than a six-pointer now.[/quote]How much bigger? A seven-pointer? Eight-pointer? How many additional points are at stake for each piece of McClaren rhetoric?

[BroadstairsR 2,163]

It''s just an expression.

We all know what it means.

It''s denying teams around you the points, whilst adding to your own tally.

Neither is it confined to relegation issues. Manchester United against Manchester City is a six-pointer, and so on.

It hardly matters whereabouts in the league a club is or the time of the season. Even playing for merit money can become a six pointer.

Wenger has often said that Arsenal could only afford to lose so many games before being ruled out of the title race.

All points are vital in the end as it is usually very tight, either at both ends of the league, or in getting extra cash for a higher place.

[Katie Borkins 1]

In a six pointer, how many points for a draw?

[lappinitup 629]

[quote user="Herman "]"- as usual hope I''m wrong!!"Why do I never believe people who write this?[/quote]As it''s Smudger it should read......."- hope I''m wrong as usual!!".  [;)]

[Gainer the Gopher 0]

How about calling it a 4 pointer? If teams start off on equal footing, the winner goes up 3, so the loser then needs 4 points to pass them. .

[TIL 1010 4,738]

[quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="Herman "]"- as usual hope I''m wrong!!"Why do I never believe people who write this?[/quote]As it''s Smudger it should read......."- hope I''m wrong as usual!!".  [;)][/quote]Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

[nutty nigel 7,531]

[quote user="Bor Bor Bor"]I''d love you to explain, using your own logic, how Sunderland away or Bournemouth at home were not also "six pointers" (leaving aside whether a "six pointer" exists or not) - 

If Newcastle away is one, then why weren''t the other two?

[/quote]

 

Maybe it''s something to do with this little ditty my Nan used to tell me...

 

Six point games hath October,April, May and November,All the rest have three point games,Excepting February

alone.Which only awards two points

Or two and a half in each leap year...

 

 

[AJ 1,218]

6 Pointer malarkey never gets to me, each game is worth a max of 3 and always will be - just don''t lose and then the other team won''t benefit!

I suppose it helps to get fired up, though :D

[Making Plans 936]

No matter how many points we get tomorrow a win will move us up to 11th [;)]

[nutty nigel 7,531]

But just imagine in we got all six MP....

 

 

[Hairy Canary 699]

More importantly a win will see us eight points above the drop zone which is a healthy margin to have built up after so few games. Not going to be easy though.

[ruthers1 0]

Sorry, should''ve read ''Season''s first six pounding''

[Herman 9,756]

[quote user="Herman "]"- as usual hope I''m wrong!!"

Why do I never believe people who write this?[/quote]That''s why. Well done Smudger.