I could forgive the goals against, only....

[Dean Coneys boots 1,398]

The thing that sticks in my craw when trying to accept defeats like yesterday is this....

The risible amount spent by our board in the summer. The outlay was one of the lowest in the prem and vastly lower than any promoted side in recent memory. Furthermore fans concerns about the obvious lack of quality at the back were ignored

This keeps making me so angry when the inevitable happens. There is little point discussing the merits of our manager- poor bugger will almost certainly be turned into the scapegoat at some point. The only discussion must centre on why we attempted to take on the prem with a cheapskate approach or else a pathetic strategy in the window. There- and only there- is the blame to be located

[lake district canary 4,530]

Yes, blame the board.  Nice one.  [Y]Or maybe realise that blame doesn''t come in to it.   Circumstances dictate what happens and what happened in the Summer can be explained by our relative lack of resources compared to other clubs. Learn to live with it, or carry on trying to blame someone, if you like, but it won''t help  to rant at the board for doing what they could to bring players in.

[93vintage 16]

I think at least a part of the lack of spending this summer was because we spent a lot last season keeping our ex-PL squad intact. We need to invest a lot more in younger players, otherwise this quality shortage is never going to abate.

[morty 0]

[quote user="Dean Coneys boots"]The thing that sticks in my craw when trying to accept defeats like yesterday is this....

The risible amount spent by our board in the summer. The outlay was one of the lowest in the prem and vastly lower than any promoted side in recent memory. Furthermore fans concerns about the obvious lack of quality at the back were ignored

This keeps making me so angry when the inevitable happens. There is little point discussing the merits of our manager- poor bugger will almost certainly be turned into the scapegoat at some point. The only discussion must centre on why we attempted to take on the prem with a cheapskate approach or else a pathetic strategy in the window. There- and only there- is the blame to be located[/quote]I agree, to a certain point, but with mitigations that none of us can quantify.We do not know if the money simply wasn''t there, or that if bids were unsuccessful ( other than relying on hearsay concerning them)

[Indy 3,283]

Have to agree with others, the money was believed to be there but the quality who our team can attract is not better than we have.

So the question is do we have enough in January to over pay for both wage and fees to get in that quality to improve our defence?

We''re not short of one CB we are short of 2 quality CB and a right back from what we''ve seen.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,775]

If reports are to be believed, and I think they were strong enough to do so, then we were putting in a few decent-sized bids for defenders as the window was closing but just left it too late.

By trying to be clever and playing a dangerous game of brinkmanship by leaving it late, we were left in a position where we could either pay over the odds, or where teams were just saying no because it was ''too late to find a replacement''.

The club was trying to reinforce the defence, but just ballsed up the transfer strategy. Which has left us in a situation where the two centre backs aren''t being pushed because they have no competition.

[Mello Yello 2,273]

Come the January transfer window.......I do think we may have to pay over the odds or somewhat a lot more for suitable additions to the squad - in an attempt to maintain our position as a Premiership Club but, not without offloading players first. I''m also still curious into the reasons for the rapid introduction of the 3 year season ticket plan?.....Once a percentage of support had taken up the offer, the door slammed shut. It''s like the club needed a quick cash injection for some reason or another? Ho Hum......

[Move Klose 303]

"Have to agree with others, the money was believed to be there but the quality who our team can attract is not better than we have"

If we cant attract better centre halves than Bassong and Martin then we are in big trouble.

[93vintage 16]

Whichever way the problem is painted, players with the ability to step up and more transfer money to spend would have helped the situation. The fact we lacked both of these indicates a problem which is beyond a simple failure to haggle and get business done in the transfer market.Last window there was no investment for the future (except for perhaps Brady), so the problem looks like it might get worse before it gets better.

[pete 318]

Was the £10m offered for Afobe an illusion or just lies.

[morty 0]

[quote user="pete"]Was the £10m offered for Afobe an illusion or just lies.[/quote]Or a genuine bid that was turned down?You "forgot" to include that option.

[hogesar 9,609]

Don''t we normally wait until February to start blaming the board for our pending relegation / poor season?

[Jim Smith 2,314]

[quote user="hogesar"]Don''t we normally wait until February to start blaming the board for our pending relegation / poor season?[/quote]

Yes but in the case of what is happening at the moment and our defensive frailties these are something that was foreseen by virtually every fan in the summer so they are inevitably going to get some stick over it if we are shipping a lot of goals and losing matches.

The transfer strategy was poor and has left us exposed with nothing we can do about it until January.

[nutty nigel 7,506]

As your stand on this has been consistent you undoubtedly have a point Jim. However if we''d signed these new players and replaced Martin and Bassong, or just Martin, but still had 7 players ahead of the ball when other teams attacked, would the new players have coped better with being totally outnumbered?

[AJ 1,218]

Nail hit on the head Nutty.

It was a completely suicidal and naive midfield display which we were constantly caught on the counter. Yes the defence''s fragilities were highlighted but even the best defenders in the world would have been caught out in the same circumstances

[PurpleCanary 5,553]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="Dean Coneys boots"]The thing that sticks in my craw when trying to accept defeats like yesterday is this....

The risible amount spent by our board in the summer. The outlay was one of the lowest in the prem and vastly lower than any promoted side in recent memory. Furthermore fans concerns about the obvious lack of quality at the back were ignored

This keeps making me so angry when the inevitable happens. There is little point discussing the merits of our manager- poor bugger will almost certainly be turned into the scapegoat at some point. The only discussion must centre on why we attempted to take on the prem with a cheapskate approach or else a pathetic strategy in the window. There- and only there- is the blame to be located[/quote]I agree, to a certain point, but with mitigations that none of us can quantify.We do not know if the money simply wasn''t there, or that if bids were unsuccessful ( other than relying on hearsay concerning them)[/quote]From memory the two high-class defenders with whom we were most heavily linked were van Dijk at Celtic and Koulibaly at Napoli, with reported bids of £8m for the former and nearly £9m for the latter. Van Dijk went to Southampton for a reported £11m and Koulibaly stayed with Napoli. The question is almost certainly not whether we were willing - and indeed eager - to spend money on the defence, but whether we made a mistake by fixating until it was too late on well-nigh impossible targets who were never going to move here.

[Indy 3,283]

Pretty much sums up our options for the defenders needed to move us up this division, but they are not interested in joining a club of our level without over paying on fees and wages which we can''t do.

Hell we couldn''t even temp a championship striker from Wolves! That''s not having a go at our great club but highlights the struggle for our club.

The way to go is young up and coming lower league defenders or from Eastern Europe like Slovakia, Poland or Czech Rep all of who have a history of producing quality players who might just be willing to come here.

Not sure what the board could have done?

[Jim Smith 2,314]

[quote user="Indy"]Pretty much sums up our options for the defenders needed to move us up this division, but they are not interested in joining a club of our level without over paying on fees and wages which we can''t do.

Hell we couldn''t even temp a championship striker from Wolves! That''s not having a go at our great club but highlights the struggle for our club.

The way to go is young up and coming lower league defenders or from Eastern Europe like Slovakia, Poland or Czech Rep all of who have a history of producing quality players who might just be willing to come here.

Not sure what the board could have done?[/quote]

Indy - a centre half (and maybe a right back) should have been our top priority throughout the window. I cannot accept he notion that a premier league club cannot find a vaguely decent centre half anywhere in Europe with three months to do so and decent resources at its disposal. Mcnally clearly had targets but when they did not come off appeared to have put all his eggs in a couple of (possibly not hugely realistic) baskets.

Nutty - yes I accept that most defences would struggle if exposed to the extent ours were yesterday hence the Tettey substitution was the biggest error of all. Indeed the facts that several of our defenders are not good enough make the somewhat over attacking approach even more surprising. These guys should be getting more protection than most defences not less.

[morty 0]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="morty"][quote user="Dean Coneys boots"]The thing that sticks in my craw when trying to accept defeats like yesterday is this....

The risible amount spent by our board in the summer. The outlay was one of the lowest in the prem and vastly lower than any promoted side in recent memory. Furthermore fans concerns about the obvious lack of quality at the back were ignored

This keeps making me so angry when the inevitable happens. There is little point discussing the merits of our manager- poor bugger will almost certainly be turned into the scapegoat at some point. The only discussion must centre on why we attempted to take on the prem with a cheapskate approach or else a pathetic strategy in the window. There- and only there- is the blame to be located[/quote]I agree, to a certain point, but with mitigations that none of us can quantify.We do not know if the money simply wasn''t there, or that if bids were unsuccessful ( other than relying on hearsay concerning them)[/quote]From memory the two high-class defenders with whom we were most heavily linked were van Dijk at Celtic and Koulibaly at Napoli, with reported bids of £8m for the former and nearly £9m for the latter. Van Dijk went to Southampton for a reported £11m and Koulibaly stayed with Napoli. The question is almost certainly not whether we were willing - and indeed eager - to spend money on the defence, but whether we made a mistake by fixating until it was too late on well-nigh impossible targets who were never going to move here.[/quote]Surely pursuing players that have no interest whatsoever in joining Norwich would just be a bit silly and a waste of everyone''s time?And I can''t imagine McNally would do it just to pretend to the fans that he at least tried to sign someone.

[Indy 3,283]

Jim, I''m not sure just how good our scouts in Europe are or even if we have any! But looking at the Championship and lower who the heck should we have signed to improve on what we had?

It''s easy to agree which I do we should have got players in but if the two top targets, one in Scotland waiting to go out of the Champios League and the other pepping up the bench in Italy, were the two then fine!

I watched the Czechs beat Holland and their right back Kadrebak was outstanding at 23 would be a great replacement for Whitts but he went to some German club in the summer!

Surely a decent scouting network in Eastern Europe would be to our advantage? Even a link with a club in this area?

I don''t know just thinking outside the box.

[Making Plans 936]

Seems to me that the last 2 weeks of the window were totally dominated, and screwed up, by the Grabban/Johnson mularkey. We lost sight of the bigger picture and forgot about the priorities. While the need was to get a defender in we were preoccupied with deciding which one was staying & which one was going.

[morty 0]

[quote user="Making Plans"]Seems to me that the last 2 weeks of the window were totally dominated, and screwed up, by the Grabban/Johnson mularkey. We lost sight of the bigger picture and forgot about the priorities. While the need was to get a defender in we were preoccupied with deciding which one was staying & which one was going.[/quote]Do you really consider McNally THAT inept that he totally forgot about trying to sign a defender?I know we will never know the whole story, but I''m not having it that he got distracted, or it slipped his mind.

[Making Plans 936]

[quote user="morty"]Do you really consider McNally THAT inept that he totally forgot about trying to sign a defender?[/quote]It''s a possibility & it wouldn''t surprise me. Would you have thought that the CEO of VW was that inept that he forgot to find out what had been going in his Company on for the last 5 years?

[morty 0]

[quote user="Making Plans"][quote user="morty"]Do you really consider McNally THAT inept that he totally forgot about trying to sign a defender?[/quote]It''s a possibility & it wouldn''t surprise me. Would you have thought that the CEO of VW was that inept that he forgot to find out what had been going in his Company on for the last 5 years?[/quote]The difference being that McNally is directly involved in transfer dealings, I doubt the CEO of VW was keeping direct tabs on emission values of cars. It would be like McNally spending his day checking the orange squash is up to scratch in the canteen.

[Making Plans 936]

[quote user="morty"]The difference being that McNally is directly involved in transfer dealings, I doubt the CEO of VW was keeping direct tabs on emission values of cars. It would be like McNally spending his day checking the orange squash is up to scratch in the canteen.[/quote]Even though emission values were the major reason for VW''s poor sales in the US?

[morty 0]

[quote user="Making Plans"][quote user="morty"]The difference being that McNally is directly involved in transfer dealings, I doubt the CEO of VW was keeping direct tabs on emission values of cars. It would be like McNally spending his day checking the orange squash is up to scratch in the canteen.[/quote]Even though emission values were the major reason for VW''s poor sales in the US?[/quote]Americans bothered about the environment?Nah, not having that either.[;)]

[Making Plans 936]

If they weren''t bothered about it how come it was them who found it [;)]

[morty 0]

[quote user="Making Plans"]If they weren''t bothered about it how come it was them who found it [;)][/quote]Anyway, enough of this jolly banter.David McNally simply didn''t just forget to sign a centre back.

[PurpleCanary 5,553]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="morty"][quote user="Dean Coneys boots"]The thing that sticks in my craw when trying to accept defeats like yesterday is this....

The risible amount spent by our board in the summer. The outlay was one of the lowest in the prem and vastly lower than any promoted side in recent memory. Furthermore fans concerns about the obvious lack of quality at the back were ignored

This keeps making me so angry when the inevitable happens. There is little point discussing the merits of our manager- poor bugger will almost certainly be turned into the scapegoat at some point. The only discussion must centre on why we attempted to take on the prem with a cheapskate approach or else a pathetic strategy in the window. There- and only there- is the blame to be located[/quote]I agree, to a certain point, but with mitigations that none of us can quantify.We do not know if the money simply wasn''t there, or that if bids were unsuccessful ( other than relying on hearsay concerning them)[/quote]From memory the two high-class defenders with whom we were most heavily linked were van Dijk at Celtic and Koulibaly at Napoli, with reported bids of £8m for the former and nearly £9m for the latter. Van Dijk went to Southampton for a reported £11m and Koulibaly stayed with Napoli. The question is almost certainly not whether we were willing - and indeed eager - to spend money on the defence, but whether we made a mistake by fixating until it was too late on well-nigh impossible targets who were never going to move here.[/quote]Surely pursuing players that have no interest whatsoever in joining Norwich would just be a bit silly and a waste of everyone''s time?And I can''t imagine McNally would do it just to pretend to the fans that he at least tried to sign someone.[/quote]Quite. That was rather the point I was making. Or are you trying to suggest that because that was potentially silly and a waste of time therefore we can''t possibly have been guilty of such an error?Unless what look like well-founded reports were wrong we did make substantial bids for van Dijk and for Koulibaly late in August, and although I can see we might have felt we were in a bit of a chance of getting van Dijk to sign, the idea that Koulibaly would leave Napoli to come here seemed then and still seems far-fetched. His agent later confirmed we had been interested but said the player didn''t want to take a backwards step in his career to a lesser club.Whether we did err will only be known by the directors, including McNally, and Neil. It might be we were led to believe we could attract one or the other. And it was the right policy initially to try for a severe upgrade on what we had. But if we did keep on chasing what was plainly a lost cause, to the exclusion of viable alternatives who would have been some kind of upgrade, if not to the extent we were aiming for, that would qualify as an error of judgment.

[morty 0]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="morty"][quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="morty"][quote user="Dean Coneys boots"]The thing that sticks in my craw when trying to accept defeats like yesterday is this....

The risible amount spent by our board in the summer. The outlay was one of the lowest in the prem and vastly lower than any promoted side in recent memory. Furthermore fans concerns about the obvious lack of quality at the back were ignored

This keeps making me so angry when the inevitable happens. There is little point discussing the merits of our manager- poor bugger will almost certainly be turned into the scapegoat at some point. The only discussion must centre on why we attempted to take on the prem with a cheapskate approach or else a pathetic strategy in the window. There- and only there- is the blame to be located[/quote]I agree, to a certain point, but with mitigations that none of us can quantify.We do not know if the money simply wasn''t there, or that if bids were unsuccessful ( other than relying on hearsay concerning them)[/quote]From memory the two high-class defenders with whom we were most heavily linked were van Dijk at Celtic and Koulibaly at Napoli, with reported bids of £8m for the former and nearly £9m for the latter. Van Dijk went to Southampton for a reported £11m and Koulibaly stayed with Napoli. The question is almost certainly not whether we were willing - and indeed eager - to spend money on the defence, but whether we made a mistake by fixating until it was too late on well-nigh impossible targets who were never going to move here.[/quote]Surely pursuing players that have no interest whatsoever in joining Norwich would just be a bit silly and a waste of everyone''s time?And I can''t imagine McNally would do it just to pretend to the fans that he at least tried to sign someone.[/quote]Quite. That was rather the point I was making. Or are you trying to suggest that because that was potentially silly and a waste of time therefore we can''t possibly have been guilty of such an error?Unless what look like well-founded reports were wrong we did make substantial bids for van Dijk and for Koulibaly late in August, and although I can see we might have felt we were in a bit of a chance of getting van Dijk to sign, the idea that Koulibaly would leave Napoli to come here seemed then and still seems far-fetched. His agent later confirmed we had been interested but said the player didn''t want to take a backwards step in his career to a lesser club.Whether we did err will only be known by the directors, including McNally, and Neil. It might be we were led to believe we could attract one or the other. And it was the right policy initially to try for a severe upgrade on what we had. But if we did keep on chasing what was plainly a lost cause, to the exclusion of viable alternatives who would have been some kind of upgrade, if not to the extent we were aiming for, that would qualify as an error of judgment.[/quote]You mention speaking to the agent, I would like to think that was done as a matter of course, and that McNally wouldn''t make things infinitely more complicated by pursuing a lost cause. And it should be pretty easy to focus on certain players in our case, due to our tight financial constrictions.AN "Hey Dave, I want that fancy, foreign centre back over there"DM "Sure Alex, if he will come for less than 10m and 40k a week, its a done deal"DM to Agent "Hey, will your guy come to Norwich for 40k a week, and will his club welcome a bid of 10m?"Agent to DM "No"DM to AN "No, you can''t have him"I would like to think that we had back up plans that were maybe AN''s 2nd or 3rd choice.And obviously its pure guesswork why none of them were successful.