Anyone anti Russell Martin isnt a Norwich fan.

[Grant Holts Moustache 105]

Not sure if posted already but looks like Mick Dennis has been reading these threads and has had his say now.

http://norwichcity.myfootballwriter.com/2015/09/22/time-for-the-negativity-to-stop-russ-alex-et-al-have-done-more-than-enough-to-be-spared-the-moans/

[Ray 111]

Dead Canary,

Thanks for that and I''ve copied the salient paragrahs below for those who wish to read it;

And so, finally, we reach the reason for my rage. I was utterly astonished and appalled to find the hackneyed ‘he can’t play at centre-back’ message board threads about our captain.

Now that I have, belatedly, watched Match of the Day 2, I can understand how the programme might have created a skewed perspective, because Martin’s two errors featured in the seven minutes of action shown.

But surely anyone who has ever seen a live match in a stadium understands that judging a team or an individual on the basis of edited highlights is like assessing a house by peering through the letter-box.

At Anfield we were singing about the Norfolk Cafu long before Russ scored, because he was outstanding — blocking, organising, holding the line and subduing £32.5m Christian Benteke so effectively that the frustrated Belgian admitted defeat long before Rodgers took him off.

Whether or not Benteke’s alleged “tight hamstring” was just an alibi, part of what happened to him was Russ Martin. Benteke gave up trying to dominate him physically because Martin wasn’t having it and because the speed of our man’s thinking was considerably quicker than the speed of Benteke’s feet.

So Benteke dropped deeper and deeper, hoping to get the ball in areas where Martin wouldn’t follow him and any sentient brain in the stadium clocked what Gordon Strachan and Alex Neil see in our captain as a centre-back.

And that was before anyone outside the camp learned about the skipper’s journey to Norwich and back for the birth of his son.

Welcome to Norwich, little fella. Your dad is one hell of a guy.

[BroadstairsR 2,138]

I liked that post Ray.

Well said.

This thing would be better put to sleep after that, IMO, as little else new is now being put forward.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

 

Interesting.....

[BroadstairsR 2,138]

So, on top of Alex Neal and Gordon Strachan we now have Mick Dennis, Garth Crooks and Matt Le Tissier''s appraisal of our captain and central defender and the Championship Player''s Player of the year.

Those antis are pitching themselves up against one hell of an array of people in the game, one way or another, who''s views need respecting.

I wish I was so self-assured in some of my opinions.

I think I am about this one though.

We have a damn good captain, central defender and all-round player in Russell Martin. Lucky us, he cost nothing.

The Dennis article is a sealant, IMO.

[Iwans Big Toe 312]

The gaping hole in Dennis'' argument. Cafu was a right back. [;)]

[Iwans Big Toe 312]

Oh and he was an ardent supporter of the Hughton regime too, if my memory serves me well.

[westcoastcanary 0]

Iwan''s Big Toe" wrote: "Oh and he was an ardent supporter of the Hughton regime too, if my memory serves me well.When

you can''t refute an argument try to discredit the arguer. It''s a long

established resort of defenders of lost causes, and actually has a Latin

name -- argumetum ad hominem, i.e. "argument aimed at the man". A tactic much in evidence on this board! [;)]

[hogesar 9,618]

Brilliant.

[Van wink 2,994]

Just love that.

And I agree with Paddy.

I had a real moan over he window but blimey, these boys and the manager have done so well, none of us can feel justified in having a moan, be happy!!

It''s great being a City fan atm, Come On You Yellows.

[Iwans Big Toe 312]

[quote user="westcoastcanary"]Iwan''s Big Toe" wrote: "Oh and he was an ardent supporter of the Hughton regime too, if my memory serves me well.When

you can''t refute an argument try to discredit the arguer. It''s a long

established resort of defenders of lost causes, and actually has a Latin

name -- argumetum ad hominem, i.e. "argument aimed at the man". A tactic much in evidence on this board! [;)][/quote]I''ve not attempted to character assassinate anyone at any point in this thread, be it Alex Neil, Russell Martin or Mick Dennis. How ever if people claim that something is true because Mick Dennis said so, surely we should look at the reliability and accuracy of Dennis opinion, or anybody elses for that matter. It is a stratagem that is used in courthouses around the world. Or do you believe that because it''s written in the press it must be correct?

[hogesar 9,618]

I think the point in this case is Mick Dennis'' opinion is shared by Alex Neil, his coaching staff, Gordon Strachan, his coaching staff, Chris Hughton, his coaching staff...all of whom have more credentials than you or I. Thankfully thats not a concern for me, since I happen to agree with them.

[Iwans Big Toe 312]

[quote user="hogesar"]I think the point in this case is Mick Dennis'' opinion is shared by Alex Neil, his coaching staff, Gordon Strachan, his coaching staff, Chris Hughton, his coaching staff...all of whom have more credentials than you or I. Thankfully thats not a concern for me, since I happen to agree with them.[/quote]Chris Hughton, Delia Smith, Micheal Wynn Jones, David McNally and Lakey all agreed with Mick Dennis'' opinion about Hughton''s ability to keep us in the Premier League. Until they didn''t. [;)]

[nutty nigel 7,509]

You''re doing well Toe. But don''t forget to factor in that ruthers agrees with you....

 

 

[Iwans Big Toe 312]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

You''re doing well Toe. But don''t forget to factor in that ruthers agrees with you....

 

 

[/quote]Now if I can only win Lakey over to my point of view, it will all have been worth it. [:)]

[can u sit down please 0]

Didn''t dick menace say he''s happily have another 10 years of hughton midway through his second season? 🙈

[Webbo118 0]

Absolutely correct. This Board doesn''t change. It has always been full of sheep who love nothing more than a scapegoat and "watching" the game on Radio Norfolk. We are very fortunate to have Russell Martin. Top player and top leader.

[Webbo118 0]

[quote user="Wes Hooly Fan"]Oh and maybe a few should get their facts right.

I am no more a troll than any of you lot and am far from a happy clapper. I was massively unhappy about the Chris Hughton era and was very vocal about it on both here and Twitter. Far from a happy clapper.

My biggest issue is the focusing of blame and a scapegoat figure on Russell Martin. Yes he makes errors but so do other members of the side. You may not like him as a footballer but he''s been a massive part of Norwich City history for the last 6 years. He deserves more respect than fans writing up catalogues of his errors match-by-match. Why can''t people just give him a bit of support ffs? The mind boggles at such negativity by some. We''re 11th in a very tough league and playing, at times, some beautiful stuff. I''m loving it. Cheer up a bit!

I know that whatever I type will be twisted and ignored by some and abuse thrown at me. I''m cool with that. This will be my last post on the subject.

And, FAO Mrs Miggins, my comment about your emotional state was very much tongue in cheek and me trying to wind you up a bit, which was poor on my part. I apologise, I''m sure you''re a decent chap.

I''ve had the pleasure of chatting to Russell on a few occasions and he''s a thoroughly decent chap. I just wonder if some of the criticism would be so full on if a few of you had managed to do the same.[/quote]

Above response to this

[nutty nigel 7,509]

[quote user="can u sit down please"]Didn''t dick menace say he''s happily have another 10 years of hughton midway through his second season? 🙈[/quote]

 

I think he might have done. I also think Gordon Strachan thought Hughton would be good for 15 years, all the Championship players last year thought 20 and Matt Le Tiss wanted him to have the job for life....

 

 

[Ray 111]

If you had an ailment you would probably seek the opinion of a specialist, you may well have your own opinion of what is ailing you and if the specialist disagrees with you, you may well seek a second opinion and possibly a third or fourth, but if they all agree with the first opinion, then possibly, just possibly you may think you are wrong and they are right. Does this mean they are correct, not necessarily but the chances are probably 99.99% they are. So by now you may accept your own diagnosis was wrong.

So it the first opinion of RM was Lambert’s, the second Hughton’s, the third, Adams’, the fourth, Neil’s, the fifth Strachan’s, the sixth his peers’, the seventh Le Tissier’s, etc. etc. (all specialists). Perhaps it might be time to re-assess your initial opinion.

Just a thought!

[Iwans Big Toe 312]

[quote user="Ray"]If you had an ailment you would probably seek the opinion of a specialist, you may well have your own opinion of what is ailing you and if the specialist disagrees with you, you may well seek a second opinion and possibly a third or fourth, but if they all agree with the first opinion, then possibly, just possibly you may think you are wrong and they are right. Does this mean they are correct, not necessarily but the chances are probably 99.99% they are. So by now you may accept your own diagnosis was wrong.

So it the first opinion of RM was Lambert’s, the second Hughton’s, the third, Adams’, the fourth, Neil’s, the fifth Strachan’s, the sixth his peers’, the seventh Le Tissier’s, etc. etc. (all specialists). Perhaps it might be time to re-assess your initial opinion.

Just a thought![/quote]So here''s a thought on your ''specialists''. Hughton and Lambert mainly used Martin as a rightback in their time as manager, Adam''s was such a great ''specialist'' that he resigned 9 months after taking the job, Le Tissier has never managed a football club and as such his experience of doing so is exactly the same as mine (non-existent), making his opinion of no more value than any one else''s who has played football. This means that we are down to two from your initial list. Perhaps it might be time to re-assess your opinion on who you consider to be ''specialists''. Just a thought. [;)]

[Ray 111]

Down to two? Even if I accept what you say about Hughton, Lambert, Adams and Le Tissier, which I don''t, we are not down to two, we are down to many, Strachan, Neil and all the other managers who voted him into the Championship team of the year last year (at CB).

And, if as you say, your experience of managing a football club is non existent, then by your own definition (and words) your opinion is of no more value than anyone else''s who has played football, so why don''t we all accept that the current specilaists, Alex Neil and Gordon Strachan, know better that we do, they have both played football and managed at the highest level, the Premier League and Internationally?

I trust our manager, if any posters think RM should not be playing at CB then they should berate the manager not the player, because I hope we would all agree that RM gives of his best at all times and it ain''t his fault he is picked at CB.

[Iwans Big Toe 312]

[quote user="Ray"]Down to two? Even if I accept what you say about Hughton, Lambert, Adams and Le Tissier, which I don''t, we are not down to two, we are down to many, Strachan, Neil and all the other managers who voted him into the Championship team of the year last year (at CB).

And, if as you say, your experience of managing a football club is non existent, then by your own definition (and words) your opinion is of no more value than anyone else''s who has played football, so why don''t we all accept that the current specilaists, Alex Neil and Gordon Strachan, know better that we do, they have both played football and managed at the highest level, the Premier League and Internationally?

I trust our manager, if any posters think RM should not be playing at CB then they should berate the manager not the player, because I hope we would all agree that RM gives of his best at all times and it ain''t his fault he is picked at CB.[/quote]I''ve never once claimed that my opinion is of any more importance than anyone else''s. I also agree that Russell Martin is a good Championship central defender, but we are not playing in the Championship this season. I think that if we are able to get another center back in come January I would like to see Russell Martin moved to right back because he is an obvious asset to the team, and as I have maintained all along we need our best players in their best position. I think that right back is his strongest position as he is very good in a tackle, a threat going forwards, but not so good defensively in the air.As for trusting our manager, I do as well. He obviously wants to be a success at Norwich and he wants to see us finish as high up the league as we can and if we can maintain our current points to games ration of the present time over a 38 game season we will do very well. He has also yet to loose back to back league games, which is very impressive and I believe that he is most definitely the best man for the job at the moment. That said however, I will continue to hold to the belief that there are better options out there at center back than Martin, until I feel he has proved otherwise. So regardless of what others say or believe, until Norwich start keeping clean sheets, stop conceding sloppy goals and are no longer one of the worst defences in the league (which of course is not just down to Martin) I will stand by my conviction.

[BroadstairsR 2,138]

Well, it all seems to have boiled down to those not in favour of RM''s current role discrediting the views of various people, within the game, whether they be managers, ex-footballers, reporters or fellow professionals, in favour of their own.

No point in listing the various worthies, although the appraisal by Mick Dennis of the Liverpool game was spot on in my opinion, except to emphasise the significance of PFA award given to Russell for last season''s performances:

I quote from Wiki.

"The award is regarded by players in the Football League as the highest accolade available to them, due to it being picked by their fellow professionals."

I think RM has enough going for him not to be much bothered by a few forum critics.

[Ray 111]

IBT, wasn''t suggesting for one moment you thought your opinion is of more importance tha anyone else''s and it appears we are sort of waging peace on each other because I too believe there are probably better CB''s out there than RM but perhaps not as many as you believe there are.

In AN we trust.

[Grant Holts Moustache 105]

There are indeed better players out there. As there are better players than all of ours. How ever I will add that signing a player better than Martin is difficult. If he was as poor as some feel he is we would have just raided the championship and purchased a player for a few million to replace him. How ever we were looking at £10m defenders to compete with him and Seb which should show how high Alex Neil clearly rates the pair of them.

Has anyone seen the Bassong piece on the front page? Seems that he believes Russell to he a good leader and a warrior. This was my favourite quote.

"We compliment each other on the pitch. Russell is the captain and leader and we talk a lot on and off the pitch to make sure everything is right. With Russell we have created a really strong partnership, we work for each other.”

[westcoastcanary 0]

No-one on here disputes that "we could do better" at CB, any more than they dispute that we could do better in every other position. None of our players are THAT good! The argument is only that RM

is a better CB than IBT and others give him credit for, and picking out RCB as the priority position for strengthening is not justified.

[mrs miggins 0]

bump