Grabban seeking advice from PFA?

[The Walking Man 13]

Grabban was done here before the PFA getting involved. What makes him different from Wes or Bassong is that Grabban fundamentally let his team mates down. Hypothetically even if Neil wanted him back, I''m not sure his team mates would.

Whatever gripes you have with your employer you don''t let your mates down.

[morty 0]

Reading the tweets, and observing the managers body language, I would be extremely surprised if Grabban ever played for us again.The action of refusing to play is bad enough, but then quite obviously leaking the story to the papers to try and engineer a move is pretty pathetic behaviour.

[ZLF 274]

Employee talks to his union about a work dispute shocker

*yawn*

[hogesar 9,660]

[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]Employee talks to his union about a work dispute shocker

*yawn*[/quote]

True, although I suppose the angst from fans derives from the fact it''s clear he was unacceptable in what he did, and people expect him to take a punishment without trying to find a potential way out of it.

You know, team building and all that.

[Rich T The Biscuit 562]

The interesting bit for me is the fact that he was suspended until next Tuesday, I appreciate its a week but ironic that it fits perfectly with the closing of the transfer window shutting.

Is that a case of go with your agent to Bournemouth and see if you can persuade them to up their offer or a blunt way of letting him and his agent know that AN and DMc are in control.

Like others have said, I''d be surprised if he was still here come the window closing!?

[ron obvious 1,502]

Having calmed down a bit about this, I do wonder if it''s quite as bad as we think? I''m not sure it was that premeditated.

I reckon Alex is good enough at man-management to offer him a way back. It''s obviously up to Grabban if he takes that path or not, but it''s yet possible he may return to the fold. It''s a watershed moment for him.

He seems to be a complex character, aloof but insecure, & he needs to make some decisions. This may not end up in the way we are all thinking.

[norfolkbroadslim 223]

It is as bad as most people think. I''d be very surprised if it wasn''t premeditated.

[morty 0]

[quote user="ron obvious"]Having calmed down a bit about this, I do wonder if it''s quite as bad as we think? I''m not sure it was that premeditated.

I reckon Alex is good enough at man-management to offer him a way back. It''s obviously up to Grabban if he takes that path or not, but it''s yet possible he may return to the fold. It''s a watershed moment for him.

He seems to be a complex character, aloof but insecure, & he needs to make some decisions. This may not end up in the way we are all thinking.[/quote]I doubt very much the reporter just stumbled on the story, there was a fair bit of detail in it.Theres nothing wrong with being confident in your abilities, but either Lewis is massively over confident in his, or he has been manipulated by his agent.

[Grant Holts Moustache 105]

I''m with Ron. I think there has been a massive over reaction towards the situation. What he has done is stupid and Grabban should be embarrassed by his behaviour. The club has decided on a punishment and Lewis is fairly taking advice as many of us would if punished at work.

Alex Neil on the other hand is a pragmatist whose job is to win games of football. Come Tuesday there is a strong possibility that Lewis will still be a Norwich City player. In that case he will be a part of things if Alex Neil believes he is a good enough player to help us put points on the board and survive this season. Something we already know is that Alex Neil does indeed rate him. Everyone makes mistakes and there is no point in holding grudges once the punishment is served as we all want the same thing. Survival.

Come Tuesday I think many may be disappointed to find he is still our player. If that happens we have to get behind the Manager and his decision because ultimately the goal we have is bigger than any grievance or perceived slight on the club.

[kick it off 1,952]

Why is everyone propagating that Lewis is just ''taking advice'' from the PFA?

There are reports that clearly state he is doing more than taking advice, and is in fact making official complaints about the club. I''m not saying it''s true, but I don''t see why it is being utterly ignored and the "taking advice" line is being pushed as fact with no more veracity to support it.

" is now understood to have filed a complaint with the PFA after the sanction was imposed before the club held an official hearing into the incident." (Guardian - http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/aug/27/norwich-lewis-grabban-suspended-pfa )

He has no legal basis to put that complaint in by the way, but IF he has, then that is entirely different to just "taking advice", that is absolutely a hostile act towards the club, and raises the stakes yet further.

Either way, I don''t want to see him pull on the yellow and green ever again.

[morty 0]

[quote user="kick it off"]Why is everyone propagating that Lewis is just ''taking advice'' from the PFA?

There are reports that clearly state he is doing more than taking advice, and is in fact making official complaints about the club. I''m not saying it''s true, but I don''t see why it is being utterly ignored and the "taking advice" line is being pushed as fact with no more veracity to support it.

" is now understood to have filed a complaint with the PFA after the sanction was imposed before the club held an official hearing into the incident." (Guardian - http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/aug/27/norwich-lewis-grabban-suspended-pfa )

He has no legal basis to put that complaint in by the way, but IF he has, then that is entirely different to just "taking advice", that is absolutely a hostile act towards the club, and raises the stakes yet further.

Either way, I don''t want to see him pull on the yellow and green ever again.

[/quote]There was no need for a hearing. The story was, quite obviously, leaked by either Lewis or his agent ( it doesn''t matter who) to publicly put Norwich City in a bad light and force a move. Had there been less detail in the news piece then perhaps I would be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that it was just press speculation.In fact, had they not leaked it to the press then none of us would have known anything about it, and it would have been dealt with behind closed doors.

[kick it off 1,952]

[quote user="morty"]There was no need for a hearing. The story was, quite obviously, leaked by either Lewis or his agent ( it doesn''t matter who) to publicly put Norwich City in a bad light and force a move. Had there been less detail in the news piece then perhaps I would be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that it was just press speculation.In fact, had they not leaked it to the press then none of us would have known anything about it, and it would have been dealt with behind closed doors.[/quote]

Legally speaking, there is a need for a hearing as companies have to have a policy in place and failure to hold a hearing or investigate properly would leave the club open to all sorts of legal challenges from Grabban and the club could be held in breach of contract and presumably the contract terminated. Even though that''s clearly not the case, and Grabban has leaked it all to the press, the club still has to complete due process.

The problem with Lewis'' complaint is that a suspension is not a sanction, it is a neutral action without judgement or prejudice, which allows the company to investigate the matter fully BEFORE the hearing is held. Holding a hearing before suspending someone would not be a reasonable course of action, as it has to be presumed that the individual will WANT to defend themself, and they must be given time to prepare that defence.

He hasn''t got a leg to stand on, but presumably his agent is not stupid, and realises that and will have advised him accordingly before the complaint was made, therefore it can only be perceived as his agent being incredibly stupid, or Lewis is determined to raise the stakes and make it clear he won''t play for us again. He''s a very silly boy as Neil rightly said if that is the case, because he will get eaten alive by McNally/Neil.

[morty 0]

[quote user="kick it off"][quote user="morty"]There was no need for a hearing. The story was, quite obviously, leaked by either Lewis or his agent ( it doesn''t matter who) to publicly put Norwich City in a bad light and force a move. Had there been less detail in the news piece then perhaps I would be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that it was just press speculation.In fact, had they not leaked it to the press then none of us would have known anything about it, and it would have been dealt with behind closed doors.[/quote]

Legally speaking, there is a need for a hearing as companies have to have a policy in place and failure to hold a hearing or investigate properly would leave the club open to all sorts of legal challenges from Grabban and the club could be held in breach of contract and presumably the contract terminated. Even though that''s clearly not the case, and Grabban has leaked it all to the press, the club still has to complete due process.

The problem with Lewis'' complaint is that a suspension is not a sanction, it is a neutral action without judgement or prejudice, which allows the company to investigate the matter fully BEFORE the hearing is held. Holding a hearing before suspending someone would not be a reasonable course of action, as it has to be presumed that the individual will WANT to defend themself, and they must be given time to prepare that defence.

He hasn''t got a leg to stand on, but presumably his agent is not stupid, and realises that and will have advised him accordingly before the complaint was made, therefore it can only be perceived as his agent being incredibly stupid, or Lewis is determined to raise the stakes and make it clear he won''t play for us again. He''s a very silly boy as Neil rightly said if that is the case, because he will get eaten alive by McNally/Neil.

[/quote]Indeed, as soon as he refused to play a game of football, something he is paid pretty handsomely to do, then that constitutes gross misconduct, and breach of his employment conditions.I would love to have been a fly on the wall when McNally and Neil had a wee chat with him!

[Grant Holts Moustache 105]

Kickotoff that''s what a Union is for, you go to them when you are unhappy, you complain to them and they they give you advice on the situation. Then once that advice is received the union will tell you if you have a case or not. If he has a case then the PFA will support him in bringing that to the club. This isn''t anything unusual and pretty much the only reason you go to your union is because you have a complaint. I think you are reading a little too much into it and making more of it than there really is at this stage.

[kick it off 1,952]

Imo you have to be willing to go to war with your employer if you put in an official complaint with the union. If that is what he has done, that''s different to seeking advice, and it''s different to going to them complaining and asking them to sort it out. An official complaint (if indeed that''s what he has done, there are reports he has, and reports that don''t mention a complaint) is an aggressive and calculated act.

[ron obvious 1,502]

Dead Canary wrote the following post at 28/08/2015 9:35 AM:

I''m with Ron. I think there has been a massive over reaction towards the situation. What he has done is stupid and Grabban should be embarrassed by his behaviour. The club has decided on a punishment and Lewis is fairly taking advice as many of us would if punished at work.

Alex Neil on the other hand is a pragmatist whose job is to win games of football. Come Tuesday there is a strong possibility that Lewis will still be a Norwich City player. In that case he will be a part of things if Alex Neil believes he is a good enough player to help us put points on the board and survive this season. Something we already know is that Alex Neil does indeed rate him. Everyone makes mistakes and there is no point in holding grudges once the punishment is served as we all want the same thing. Survival.

Come Tuesday I think many may be disappointed to find he is still our player. If that happens we have to get behind the Manager and his decision because ultimately the goal we have is bigger than any grievance or perceived slight on the club.

--------------------------------------------

My take on it completely, DC. Second paragraph is key; I do not think Neil is your typical egomaniacal sort of manager, he seems like the best sort of military leader, the one you''d trust to lead you into battle!

[Ray 111]

Maybe he would have been better advised to seek advice from his union ''before'' he walked out, not after?

[smooth 114]

It is going to take one hell of a turn around by Grabban.

It is the players he has let down, publicly. I think there has been a long running piece here as it is strange for a former club to come back after 12 months. Unless there are a lot of things going on behind the scenes.

It may be that AN can turn this around but this is a bad egg that will have effects long beyond this and next week. He has done this once and publicly. It seems from AN he has been warned before, so there may be some history, for it now to be public is quite a thing.

I for one do not think it is wise keeping him here after Tuesday. If he is he will be well down the pecking order with hopefully our new addition, cam and either Ricky or Hooper ahead. Not because of his actions but because he will be the third choice of a similar style of forward.

[Ray 111]

And while I think about it, he didn''t want to be part of the squad/team on Tuesday so what''s his beef being told he''s not part of the squad/team for Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday & Monday??

[Buh 0]

I hope it was supposed to look leaked because if the story that hit the papers was any more leaky I was going to call dyno-rod.

Didn''t it have exact times and stuff literally moments after it has happened.

Lewis needs a new agent, Syril Sneer is doing nothing for him.

[Grant Holts Moustache 105]

Yep Alex Neil is a natural leader and a good leader doesn''t hold personal grudges. They do what''s best for the team. I would follow him into battle if he asked (more likely just to tell me mind you).

[norfolkngood 1,087]

maybe it is about loyalty bonus ??

my understanding on the matter is a player gets a loyalty bonus during his contract / signing on fee spread over the years

now if a club decides to sell the player he still gets this as he was loyal it was the clubs choice

if he hands in a request to leave he forfeits this a he is not loyal through to end of contract

now LG has been a d1ck but to my knowledge maybe made it known he would like to to leave but not written transfer so maybe he went to the FA to say if sold it would be the clubs choice and he wants his loyalty bonus ( even though he has been shown little loyalty !!!!)

it can not be he went to see the FA because we suspended him what did he expect ? cannot be that we will not allow him to leave as that''s our choice he signed a contract so it must be something he feels the club are doing him wrong in someway like others have said McNally and the club are to smart for that and will know the rules about this as they have a solicitor at hand to advise .................

my money is on he wants his loyalty bonus as he did not hand a written request even though he done much worse and let everyone down !

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

I doubt Norwich will have any problem with Lewis consulting his union, it is his right, the same it is the right of anyone of us in this situation.

What interested me was AN saying they were still ''investigating'' the matter. If that is so, a fine on Lewis'' wages might be a little premature.

As no one here really knows what happened in the build up to Lewis walking out it seems silly to speculate too much. We have to have faith that the club will carry out the disciplinary procedures correctly and this matter is forgotten quickly.

Lewis could still be an important player for Norwich and ostracising him for a mistake would be silly.

[Feedthewolf 4,846]

[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]

Lewis could still be an important player for Norwich and ostracising him for a mistake would be silly.[/quote]He ostracised himself by walking out on the manager and all his team-mates. I''m trying to be rational about the situation - and you''re clearly doing a better job than me - but I can''t see how such a flagrant breach of discipline can just be brushed under the carpet. Can Neil force his team-mates to forgive him? And if not, and it affects the squad dynamic, what option will he have but to keep him away from the first-team? His very public actions have also potentially cost the club millions of pounds in inflated transfer fees, due to his own selfishness and egotism. Mercenary behaviour like this going against everything Neil has been trying to build.If somehow Grabban ends up back on side with manager, fans and team-mates, Neil should be nominated for a Nobel peace prize.

[Monty13 2,231]

“They know if they step across the line there will be consequences. It is pretty simple. Lewis was warned about that before.”

Find this quote pretty interesting. Does he mean generically Lewis was warned as were all players, or has something else happened in the past where Grabban has clashed with him?

[Feedthewolf 4,846]

[quote user="Monty13"]“They know if they step across the line there will be consequences. It is pretty simple. Lewis was warned about that before.”

Find this quote pretty interesting. Does he mean generically Lewis was warned as were all players, or has something else happened in the past where Grabban has clashed with him?[/quote]Was probably referring to his red card last season - can''t be sure, but I think I remember him calling him a ''silly boy'' on that occasion, and also mentioning ''consequences''?

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

Sounds quite melodramatic Feedthewolf. I''d be surprised if his team mates really care that much about it at all. Ruddy said he didn''t know what was going on before or during the game and he was at the hotel.

I doubt they are all furious with him and blanking him in the canteen. Nearly every player will have had some experience of falling out with a manager or team mates and they are pretty good at forgetting about it - obviously none of them (to our knowledge) has done something like this but Bassong ruled himself out of playing for Adams, which was reciprocal, and the players seem alright with him now .

They will know Lewis well and are more likely to be able to forget about it than the fans surely. When Tevez disappeared off to South America to play golf for ages his team mates didn''t give a shit when he got back, they even joined in with his golf club celebration when he scored against Norwich.

As I said, without knowing the full details it is hard to make much of a judgement and I''ll trust the club to sort it all out. The worst thing the fans can do is overreact and go around moaning about it like he has slapped our mum or something. He disagreed with the manager and didn''t want to play in a League Cup game for crying out loud, Lewis Dunk did the same at Brighton and was then given a 5 year contract.

[Feedthewolf 4,846]

All conjecture on both our parts, Bethnal. But I''d imagine it will take some contrition on Grabban''s part to appease everyone, and so far he seems entirely unapologetic. In the meantime, I''ll try to dial back the rhetoric a bit... [:)]

[Lessingham Canary 99]

Alex and the club have said their bit, its all now up to Lewis, if he wants to rebuild his trust with Alex, I cant see obstacles being put in his way, as for his teammates I''m pretty sure its just another day at the office.

Unless of course Bournemouth stump up £8m and he moves on ! somehow I doubt that is going to happen.

[Nuff Said 5,135]

[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]The worst thing the fans can do is overreact and go around moaning about it like he has slapped our mum or something. He disagreed with the manager and didn''t want to play in a League Cup game for crying out loud, Lewis Dunk did the same at Brighton and was then given a 5 year contract.[/quote]Careful BYG, you''re only making the "Norwich fans are all inbred" nonsense worse saying we all have the same mother! [;)]