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Mbokani flown in on a private jet

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[quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="kick it off"]Indy, you know I share your opinion on the anti-RvW brigade, but this comment is silly.
0 in 7 for Wolfsburg? He played 306 minutes total. 5 of his 7 games were 20 minute sub apps, So he actually played the equivalent of 3.5 games with 1.5 of those games spread across 20minute sub apps.[/quote]People were happy to write RvW off as not good enough based on purely his goal ratio, and even when I pointed out that he''d had ZERO supply under Hughton in a totally negative system, all that kept being dredged up was his single goal return and poor ratio in France, well if it''s good enough to do that for RvW, then I can damn well do it for Mbokani.It absolutely is selective stats by the way Purple, but if it''s good enough for everyone else....
[/quote]

Because they are illogical comparisons.

RVW has had two seasons, one with us, one on loan in France, where he was to be considered one of the ''main'' strikers. Two entire seasons as part of settled squads.

One of the periods you mention wasn''t very long, he made 7 appearances.

If you were to directly compare the periods you are mentioning, Mbokani still comes out better.

The other factor is that you are trying to rubbish a player before he has even signed. RVW hasn''t been rubbished - people are in the main, just saying he isn''t what we need. Which is not the same thing at all IMHO.

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If Mbokani puts in good work rate and scores  some goals along the way and the canary faithful get behind him and not criticise him after 1 or 2 matches he could well turn out to be very good signing. I can already see the City fans adoring his big wide smile. He could be the kind of character we grow to love here. Anyway, here is hoping.

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[quote user="kick it off"]
Indy, you know I share your opinion on the anti-RvW brigade, but this comment is silly.
[/quote]KIO, I am not aware of any anti-van Wolfswinkel brigade. There are posters who have come to the fact-based conclusion (which seems also to the the opinion of the manager) that he just is not good enough for the Premier League, and probably not for any of the top European leagues.That doesn''t constitute being personally opposed to the player, any more than believing that, say, Aaron Wilbraham was not going to be up to playing in the Premier League was being anti-Wilbraham. They are both just clear-eyed judgments.If there is a brigade it is of posters who continue to claim, sometimes with arguments that are indeed silly, to use your word, that van Wolfswinkel is PL-quality and that he has been unfairly criticised.

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="kick it off"]Indy, you know I share your opinion on the anti-RvW brigade, but this comment is silly.
[/quote]KIO, I am not aware of any anti-van Wolfswinkel brigade. There are posters who have come to the fact-based conclusion (which seems also to the the opinion of the manager) that he just is not good enough for the Premier League, and probably not for any of the top European leagues.That doesn''t constitute being personally opposed to the player, any more than believing that, say, Aaron Wilbraham was not going to be up to playing in the Premier League was being anti-Wilbraham. They are both just clear-eyed judgments.If there is a brigade it is of posters who continue to claim, sometimes with arguments that are indeed silly, to use your word, that van Wolfswinkel is PL-quality and that he has been unfairly criticised. [/quote]

I''ve never really understood what "PL- quality" means.  Norwich under Lambert were collectively PL quality, as were Hughton''s team in the first season.  Individually, Grant Holt was often said not to be good enough for the PL - yet he scored 23 goals in two seasons there.  So what is the definition of a PL player?    One who is not successful, but could be, or one  that is successful, but is apparently not?   As far as Mbokani is concerned we just don''t know.  As far as RVW is concerned there are opinions right across the board - and although you may be right that there is no anti-RVW brigade - there are some fans who are still bitter about the season he was here before and can''t accept that he is still here, apparently working hard and in the manager''s thoughts.  If he does so well that he is picked for the team and scores one or two goals - and he was on the bench yesterday - what will people say then?  "Ooh, he''s scored a couple, but he''s not PL quality"?

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="kick it off"]
Indy, you know I share your opinion on the anti-RvW brigade, but this comment is silly.
[/quote]KIO, I am not aware of any anti-van Wolfswinkel brigade. There are posters who have come to the fact-based conclusion (which seems also to the the opinion of the manager) that he just is not good enough for the Premier League, and probably not for any of the top European leagues.That doesn''t constitute being personally opposed to the player, any more than believing that, say, Aaron Wilbraham was not going to be up to playing in the Premier League was being anti-Wilbraham. They are both just clear-eyed judgments.If there is a brigade it is of posters who continue to claim, sometimes with arguments that are indeed silly, to use your word, that van Wolfswinkel is PL-quality and that he has been unfairly criticised. [/quote]
There are those you describe, who are rightly entitled to that perspective. However, then there are those who say he "can''t pass" because he misplaced one, solitary pass 2 years ago, and consistently say RvW is absolutely $hit and there''s no possibility of him scoring any PL goals under AN because he didn''t under Hughton, and often quite unfairly criticising RvW. Those are the ones adopting "a fact based approach" but do not have the capacity to consider any mitigating factors and circumstances, and are the anti-brigade I refer to. 
Yes, RvW probably isn''t the player we thought we had when we signed him, but he has banged them in for fun in other leagues, and Hughton''s brand of anti-football resulted in Holty reducing his goals by half in one season, Morison going from a player who scored 10 to a player that scored 0 etc etc. Now you can say RvW is useless, he only scored one goal, fact based approach blahblahblah but I feel a slightly more balanced perspective is to say he has had a rough couple of years, but under Hughton we recorded our lowest EVER goals total, yes he was part of that, but was his goal return a symptom or a cause of that season? 
Taking into account the fact that every striker we had under Hughton was absolutely ruined and returned less than 50% of previous year''s goal tallies, and Elmander who proved he was capable in the Prem with Bolton (scoring roughly 1 in 4) couldn''t score for toffee under Hughton, I think a more reasonable approach is to say that whilst RvW hasn''t proven himself to us yet, it''s a ridiculous assertion to say that he is not capable of scoring goals in the Prem. If he is kept as part of the squad this season, I expect him to return about 5 goals in limited playing time. You may entirely disagree with that, and that is your prerogative but it is certainly not an unreasonable or stupid stance to take, and certainly not based on "silly" arguments.

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[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="kick it off"]Indy, you know I share your opinion on the anti-RvW brigade, but this comment is silly.
[/quote]KIO, I am not aware of any anti-van Wolfswinkel brigade. There are posters who have come to the fact-based conclusion (which seems also to the the opinion of the manager) that he just is not good enough for the Premier League, and probably not for any of the top European leagues.That doesn''t constitute being personally opposed to the player, any more than believing that, say, Aaron Wilbraham was not going to be up to playing in the Premier League was being anti-Wilbraham. They are both just clear-eyed judgments.If there is a brigade it is of posters who continue to claim, sometimes with arguments that are indeed silly, to use your word, that van Wolfswinkel is PL-quality and that he has been unfairly criticised. [/quote]

I''ve never really understood what "PL- quality" means.  Norwich under Lambert were collectively PL quality, as were Hughton''s team in the first season.  Individually, Grant Holt was often said not to be good enough for the PL - yet he scored 23 goals in two seasons there.  So what is the definition of a PL player?    One who is not successful, but could be, or one  that is successful, but is apparently not?   As far as Mbokani is concerned we just don''t know.  As far as RVW is concerned there are opinions right across the board - and although you may be right that there is no anti-RVW brigade - there are some fans who are still bitter about the season he was here before and can''t accept that he is still here, apparently working hard and in the manager''s thoughts.  If he does so well that he is picked for the team and scores one or two goals - and he was on the bench yesterday - what will people say then?  "Ooh, he''s scored a couple, but he''s not PL quality"?

[/quote]I am talking about individual players rather than a well-managed team being better (as arguably the Lambert side was) than the sum of its parts. I can''t speak for those who thought Holt wouldn''t do well in the Premier League, but the evidence is that in his first two seasons he clearly was PL-standard (whether the decline in the third season was due to age or Hughton''s tactics or a combination is a question). In contrast to the evidence that Holt was PL-quality, the facts argue against that in the case of van Wolfswinkel.

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Just done the classic thing and looked up his YouTube goals, though the defending will be better in the EPL I was actually quite excited by the goals.

Lots of powerful headers, some good forward drives and shots from the outside of the area, a couple of tricky runs in the box with a finish and then a couple of Classic poacher ones.... RVW he is not!

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I''m not too bothered about his scoring record. He can clearly score a goal though. His main job would be to hold up the ball. There''s goals throughout all of our squad so he has no need to score them all. After seeing Jerome look helpless on Sunday, albeit down to ten men, I think he''d be perfect for us.

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="kick it off"]Indy, you know I share your opinion on the anti-RvW brigade, but this comment is silly.
[/quote]KIO, I am not aware of any anti-van Wolfswinkel brigade. There are posters who have come to the fact-based conclusion (which seems also to the the opinion of the manager) that he just is not good enough for the Premier League, and probably not for any of the top European leagues.That doesn''t constitute being personally opposed to the player, any more than believing that, say, Aaron Wilbraham was not going to be up to playing in the Premier League was being anti-Wilbraham. They are both just clear-eyed judgments.If there is a brigade it is of posters who continue to claim, sometimes with arguments that are indeed silly, to use your word, that van Wolfswinkel is PL-quality and that he has been unfairly criticised. [/quote]

I''ve never really understood what "PL- quality" means.  Norwich under Lambert were collectively PL quality, as were Hughton''s team in the first season.  Individually, Grant Holt was often said not to be good enough for the PL - yet he scored 23 goals in two seasons there.  So what is the definition of a PL player?    One who is not successful, but could be, or one  that is successful, but is apparently not?   As far as Mbokani is concerned we just don''t know.  As far as RVW is concerned there are opinions right across the board - and although you may be right that there is no anti-RVW brigade - there are some fans who are still bitter about the season he was here before and can''t accept that he is still here, apparently working hard and in the manager''s thoughts.  If he does so well that he is picked for the team and scores one or two goals - and he was on the bench yesterday - what will people say then?  "Ooh, he''s scored a couple, but he''s not PL quality"?

[/quote]I am talking about individual players rather than a well-managed team being better (as arguably the Lambert side was) than the sum of its parts. I can''t speak for those who thought Holt wouldn''t do well in the Premier League, but the evidence is that in his first two seasons he clearly was PL-standard (whether the decline in the third season was due to age or Hughton''s tactics or a combination is a question). In contrast to the evidence that Holt was PL-quality, the facts argue against that in the case of van Wolfswinkel.[/quote]

So in that case, as with Holt,  being "PL quality" is variable for players - ie. that whether they are PL or not depends on what they do on the pitch year on year.  In other words they can be PL quality one season, but not the next - and vice versa.  So that has to be the same for any player. So RVW isn''t a PL quality player until he has proved himself there, but because Mbokani hasn''t proved himself there either, he cannot be considered a PL quality player either........

So "PL quality", which is a phrase a lot of people use, does not have an absolute definition - it is a rather subjective term.    I still think RVW has the ability to score goals at the top level, if the players around him switch on to him - as the other day when he was delivered the type of early cross that his intelligent runs deserve.    But until he does it in a PL match, he can''t be considered a PL quality player......same with Mbokani.  RVW has been tried and found wanting - but in a team where goals weren''t even coming from anywhere much. In this team under a new manager, he could yet surprise all of us and score goals.  Mbokani has to do the same, of course.  To me they are both potentially PL quality.They just have to go out there and prove it.

 

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[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"]I''d be concerned for any football fan of a decent amount of years if they aren''t able to distinguish a player of Premier League quality from one that isn''t??[/quote]The point is what constitutes a PL quality player. Mbokani hopefully will be, but until he contributes positively to the team, he is not.

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[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"]I''d be concerned for any football fan of a decent amount of years if they aren''t able to distinguish a player of Premier League quality from one that isn''t??[/quote]It''s not as easy as that though is it? Some people make an incredible living judging how good players are.Just ask Tom Cavendish.

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Saw a private jet take off from Norwich around an hour a go only one here so must of been him, looks like it could be close then to being announced :)

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FAO Wiz.

As you know, I''ve come to value your opinion over the last year or so, but I do have to ask how you''re so sure this fella will flop? I know for a fact you don''t watch too much football from outside the country and I''m willing to bet a fair sum that you''ve never seen him play. I also know you''re a fan of Alex Neil so I''m surprised you wouldn''t trust his judgement if this is the bloke he wants.

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[quote user="splutcho"]FAO Wiz.

As you know, I''ve come to value your opinion over the last year or so, but I do have to ask how you''re so sure this fella will flop? I know for a fact you don''t watch too much football from outside the country and I''m willing to bet a fair sum that you''ve never seen him play. I also know you''re a fan of Alex Neil so I''m surprised you wouldn''t trust his judgement if this is the bloke he wants.[/quote]I just think he''s AN''s gamble because he can''t get Afobe or Austin.

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I honestly think Mbokani is the first choice and persistence has paid off?

Suits what we need more than some of the others imo. Could be a lot better than risking 15mill on Austin (who could be 1 season wonder/injured) or Afobe (who Arsenal didnt rate at the time).

There''s always an element of risk, but this is the best odds to expense

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[quote user="splutcho"]FAO Wiz. I know for a fact you don''t watch too much football from outside the country.....[/quote]......nor at Carrow Rd either. [;)][:D]

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[quote user="Wiz"][quote user="splutcho"]FAO Wiz.

As you know, I''ve come to value your opinion over the last year or so, but I do have to ask how you''re so sure this fella will flop? I know for a fact you don''t watch too much football from outside the country and I''m willing to bet a fair sum that you''ve never seen him play. I also know you''re a fan of Alex Neil so I''m surprised you wouldn''t trust his judgement if this is the bloke he wants.[/quote]I just think he''s AN''s gamble because he can''t get Afobe or Austin.[/quote]

In football, as in life,  you can''t always have what you want. Getting the best available is the requirement. If Austin and Afobe were not available to us, the Mbokani is the main man. 

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[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"]I''d be concerned for any football fan of a decent amount of years if they aren''t able to distinguish a player of Premier League quality from one that isn''t??[/quote]The point is what constitutes a PL quality player. Mbokani hopefully will be, but until he contributes positively to the team, he is not.

[/quote]

For me, it''s a player that looks comfortable in the premier league, and by that I mean, one that can give consistently good enough performances, has fewer off days and when they do, they still don''t look out of their depth.

I''m not sure I agree entirely with your opinion of the squad under Lambert. They performed well, and out performed other teams, but this did not make the players premier league standard.

For me, that season, we were clearly reliant more upon some players than others as well as a lot of hardwork. And you could see that, he often changed the personnel, partly due to tactics and partly, I feel, because he knew a lot of the players were not able to give that level of performance week in, week out. And some needed resting.

I agree with Purple but I will add something to the mix.

RVW has had a chance, and it would appear he is being given another. As of yet I have not seen anything to convince me that he will be a great return on what was paid for him in wages and transfer fee. This may well not be his fault, but that doesn''t make that particular deal look any better.

I don''t think anyone will say they don''t want him to be anything but an absolute success. The reality is that after two seasons, he hasn''t been yet.

Anyone that leads a sort of campaign suggesting that he needs to be given more game time to prove his quality is pretty foolish in my books. We don''t have ''game time'' to give anyone a chance to ''prove'' that they can do it. This is the premier league, we need good enough now.

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[quote user="Wiz"]Anyone who thinks this guy will solve our problems is nuts![/quote]There i was just having a look on the site that must not be mentioned on here and there you are Wiz asking posters who Mbokani is and is he any good !!!!You really do need to take a long hard look at yourself and if that other place gave you the chance to be who you wanted to be as Herman discovered and posted on here earlier may i suggest you stay there and stop trolling around this message board.

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[quote user="Trawling canary"]

Even teams in the championship are bidding 10 million for players we aren''t it doesn''t take Albert Enstein to work out something is a miss!!!!![/quote]Or of course they could just be committing financial suicide.

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Is it a little concerning that there has been no announcement from the club regarding Mbokani?

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Well folks its now nearly 6pm...exactly 24 hrs  till the deadline arrives, whats this 24 hrs going to bring?We have had  a mountain of rumours concerning our strikers leaving but as of now all 5 are still here.We have had a lot of rumours concerning CBs coming in but as of now none have come in.What will this 24 hrs deliver to City?...its not long thank goodness.

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[quote user="Wiz"]From a £10 million bid for Afobe to this. . ......jeez![/quote]Which board member (either NCFC or WWFC will do) told you that ? Or told any media outlet that ? They haven''t. You are just making up stuff yet again.

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