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Actually given the service from the first three games, I believe RVW would have scored......the flip side is who would you drop to accommodate him? The reason we''ve been so good is the midfield.

Not sure RVW can play from the start but could be a heck of an asset from the bench.

We might see him get this chance on Sunday.

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[quote user="mrs miggins"]I''ve just seen the highlights from last night. RVW was one on one with the GK.....hit is straight at the GK, routine save.[/quote]

And why is that?   Because his confidence it not at full level.  A confident RVW would have not thought twice about placing the shot either side of the goal keeper, but when you are not fully on top of your game, you play it safe, go for power and make sure you get the shot on target - which is what he did.    The goal he scored was the best kind because he didn''t have time to think - he got himself in the right position and instinct did the rest.

Whether he will get to full confidence and start banging goals in in the premier league, is a whole different question - but every striker misses sometimes.  To be honest, in all the games RVW has featured, how many clear cut chances has he had to get his confidence back? Very few. 

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I''m in a perpetual state of "we''ll see" with ricky

He''s a truly unique situation

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Too true LDC, he''ll be best when he relies on instinct, not when he has all the time in the world when he''s one on one.

The only way he''s going to get confidence though here is if he''s played regularly, and even then there''s a big chance that it won''t work. Will we play him regularly...probably not.

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[quote user="Indy_Bones"]>I''m of the opinion that if a striker is making all the right runs but is not being passed the ball, the issue isn''t with the striker, but the players who are not giving him the ammunition despite his good runs...[/quote]

And I''m of the opinion that if players aren''t giving another player the ball, there''s probably a good reason.

Were you at the game? Not a criticism either way, but I didn''t see anything like enough effort last night which came as a surprise. If he wasn''t going to work his bo11ocks off when he''s given his first start in over a year - and knowing what he knows about Hooper & Grabban - then you have to question his commitment.

We need to cut our losses and get rid ASAP. Even allowing for last night, he''s just not strong enough for the Prem.

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Sorry to pour cold water on this outbreak of positivity regarding RVW but having read all three pages of this thread it is obvious that none of the posters were at last night''s game. Rotherham for most of the game fully justified their position at the bottom of the Championship and were pants except for the odd moment or two.RVW still looked a 12 year old playing with the big boys and lacked strength throughout and anybody who remotely thinks he can cut it in the Premier are deluded.

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Good to see the RVW bashing continues from some of our fans...... Constructive.

Not his fault he cost 8 mil, that''s now not the question, the question is can he be an effective member of our squad? So far Grabban''s PL season reads: open goal missed and bad attitude last night. Personally I don''t see him as a better player than RVW.

RVW has played once this season and scored once (albeit against poor opposition), irrespective of your view on him (or anyone else), I really hope he''s given support if he plays in a league match - we''re a different side to Hughton''s slow, boring creation of a side

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"]If van Wolfswinkel gets into the 25-man squad it will be because we are stuck with him and not because we want him. Fans seem to have forgotten that virtually our first move this summer was to try to get rid of him, and there is no sign that anything has happened since to change Neil''s mind on the question of the player''s abilities.[/quote]And it goes on, here and before and no doubt to come. I have, and this is no exaggeration, never read so much deluded drivel about any footballer - Norwich City or otherwise - as I have about van Wolfswinkel. There have been posts that would be regarded as overly maudlin for the death of a beloved pet hamster.He is a very highly-paid footballer who has twice failed in two of the top-five European leagues, and so has been judged by our manager to be below the required standard for us this season.Which bit of us immediately trying to sell him back to Sporting do posters not understand? Which bit of him being given the No. 29 shirt (when No. 9 is left vacant) do posters not get? Which bit of him (despite our comparitive lack of quality strikers) not being in any of this season''s three Premier League matchday squads?

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[quote user="TIL 1010"] RVW still looked a 12 year old playing with the big boys and lacked strength throughout and anybody who remotely thinks he can cut it in the Premier are deluded.[/quote]

This is something that people have often said about RVW.  He can''t help the way he looks, anymore than any other footballer can - and looks can be deceiving.  Wes lacks strength and build, but makes up for it with determination.  The times I have seen RVW live, he has been determined and robust, not like a 12 year old at all. To label him so is just a convenient put down.   

Confidence can work wonders and even if his body language is not that great atm, a goal or two would soon change that - and at least he got one last night - from the kind of ball that he has been cying out for ever since he arrived at the club - and hardly ever got.  A few more good early balls into the box and he might get on the end of a few more and get his confidence going.  Beckham used to curl the ball into the danger area, early - and sometimes from just over the half way line, resulting in plenty of goals - the kind of service that the intelligent running and positioning of a player like RVW would thrive on.  We have the players that can do that and away from home particularly in the premier league, a counter attack using that kind of play could be valuable.  Deluded or not, I shan''t be writing him off as long as he is a Norwich player. 

 

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But I still like him - and the more the media get on his back, the more I want him to come good!

He is another option for us at present, and whenever Alex picks him - I''ll support him.

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[quote user="Cobain18"]Good to see the RVW bashing continues from some of our fans...... Constructive. [/quote]

I think fans are well within their right to criticise and have an opinion on our strike force. Especially since he''s very highly paid. Any player brought in as a marque signing must realise there is a level of expectation/responsibility on their shoulders. Sure, personal attacks are completely unwarranted but most comments appear to be on his ability.

While we all admire the fact he''s not acted like a petulent child, the fact is no offers have come in for him, which is unsurprising given his record over the last two years: atrocious for us in the PL and poor for Saint-Etienne. For someone as highly paid as him, it''s obviously wise to just get on with things and collect the wages.

The fact is that if, in that crucial PL year, we had had another striker instead of the Wolf, we would have stayed up. Sure he might not have been played in the correct way (or whatever that weak excuse is) but for an £8m price tag a few years back, he should have managed more than one measily goal.

I understand why a large section of the fanbase long him for him to "come good" because he''s arguably the most exciting signing we''ve ever made...a good-looking lad with decent goal-scoring record, a few caps for the Dutch side, an impressive Youtube compilation...not to mention an awesome name. On paper the best signing we''ve ever made and it''s natural to want him to perform to that level. However, he simply hasn''t. Over and over and over he''s had chances and has never really done anything of note other than score one goal against a side due to be relegated from the Championship.

For all the promise he is simply not good enough. We cannot risk a second season with him. Nor do I expect AN wants to...why would *he* risk it when such a large sections of fans could - at the end of the season - turn around and say "we told you so, we told you he wasn''t good enough"? Would ANY manager be confident using a striker who previously managed one goal ALL SEASON? It''s preposterous. He has become a good-looking, fancy-named yoke around the neck of this club.

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[quote user="Tilt"] The fact is that if, in that crucial PL year, we had had another striker instead of the Wolf, we would have stayed up. Sure he might not have been played in the correct way (or whatever that weak excuse is) but for an £8m price tag a few years back, he should have managed more than one measily goal.[/quote]
That''s not a fact, that''s your opinion based on conjecture. My own opinion is that actually you could have put Messi up there and it wouldn''t have mattered because the football was so poor, with so few chances created that he would have struggled to get more than 5.
Hughton''s brand of football killed all the strikers that year as it did the year before. Holt went from 17 goals under Lambert to 8 under Hughton. Morison went from 10 under Lambert to 0 (1 maybe) under Hughton..... Hooper struggled in the system, as did Elmander, as did Redmond. Ricky isn''t the only one who didn''t score that season. In fact it was the lowest scoring season ever, yet you consider that to be Ricky''s fault not Captain Defensive Hughton?
Criticising him for scoring last night is stupid. Yes it was only Rotherham, but he played one game and scored a goal. He can''t magically give himself a game against Man United, all he can do is take his chances when put on the pitch, which he did last night.
What''s preposterous is the fact that you give Ricky no credit whatsoever. He won''t be the main striker this year, but he will be in the squad and if given minutes on the pitch in a team that creates chances like we do under Alex Neil, I would back him to notch a substantial amount too. I don''t think he''s going to bang 20 or anything silly, but I would back him to get 5 or 6 in a bit part role off the bench.

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[quote user="lake district canary"]  Wes lacks strength and build, but makes up for it with determination.  The times I have seen RVW live, he has been determined and robust, not like a 12 year old at all.

[/quote]No Lakey Wes makes up for his build and strength with skill and as for RVW looking determined and robust that must have been a game i missed.

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[quote user="TIL 1010"][quote user="lake district canary"]  Wes lacks strength and build, but makes up for it with determination.  The times I have seen RVW live, he has been determined and robust, not like a 12 year old at all.

[/quote]No Lakey Wes makes up for his build and strength with skill and as for RVW looking determined and robust that must have been a game i missed.[/quote]

I think you may have missed this one when you were out of action for a while, but it was one of his best performances in the few games I went to at CR that season - against Tottenham - and most of the crowd thought he did well that game too. Match report said - "Van Wolfswinkel made way for Hooper in the 72nd minute to a standing

ovation from the home fans for a selfless shift up against both Dawson

and Vertonghen
."  It was a strong performance and his determination in disposessing a Tottenham player led directly to our goal. Ok, just one match, but it shows there is plenty of strength there in body and in character.

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[quote user="KoromaCrab"]Did anyone do any wolf howls in the away crowd when RVW scored last night?[/quote]
Yep quite a few.

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I''m just going to requote this entire post to keep the sensible elephant in the room alive.
[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="PurpleCanary"]If van Wolfswinkel gets into the 25-man squad it will be because we are stuck with him and not because we want him. Fans seem to have forgotten that virtually our first move this summer was to try to get rid of him, and there is no sign that anything has happened since to change Neil''s mind on the question of the player''s abilities.[/quote]And it goes on, here and before and no doubt to come. I have, and this is no exaggeration, never read so much deluded drivel about any footballer - Norwich City or otherwise - as I have about van Wolfswinkel. There have been posts that would be regarded as overly maudlin for the death of a beloved pet hamster.He is a very highly-paid footballer who has twice failed in two of the top-five European leagues, and so has been judged by our manager to be below the required standard for us this season.Which bit of us immediately trying to sell him back to Sporting do posters not understand? Which bit of him being given the No. 29 shirt (when No. 9 is left vacant) do posters not get? Which bit of him (despite our comparitive lack of quality strikers) not being in any of this season''s three Premier League matchday squads?[/quote]
Aww, but he tries really hard!
Aww, but what if he gets his confidence back, the poor lamb?
Aww, but it was Snodgrass and Houghton''s fault for stripping him of his self-belief...
<<DELUDED>>

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[quote user="Tilt"]Sure he might not have been played in the correct way (or whatever that weak excuse is) but for an £8m price tag a few years back, he should have managed more than one measily goal.[/quote]Ok, let''s put this another way, take a world class sniper, a guy who virtually never misses the target he''s aiming at, now tell him to hit targets but here''s the catch - do it without being given any ammunition...how many people do you think he''s actually going to hit without it?I remember having the same argument years ago with a Chelsea fan who was adamant that Sutton was an awful striker who wasn''t good enough for the Prem, never mind Chelsea. I quickly pointed out that Sutton is far and away at his best when being given balls in the air and playing alongside a more technically gifted striker, instead they were constantly playing the ball to his feet in less than favourable positions and wondering why he wasn''t finishing. It wasn''t because Sutton was a bad striker, it was simply that he did not suit the system he was being asked to play in and his goal tally suffered (1 in 28 IIRC). Now I''m pretty certain that you won''t find many fans on here that would say that Sutton was $hit, but the fact was that in the right system he''s a 15-20 a season striker, in the wrong system he''s simply not that good, and it''s no different with RvW.Some strikers need to be used in a system that deliberates works to get the best out of their attributes, which is why players like Drogba, Benteke and similar are ideal target men, because they have the strength and physicality to hold the ball up and deal with 6ft+ centre halves, others like Owen preferred to play on the shoulder of the last man and use his pace to run onto balls, others like RvW, Inzaghi and similar are players that really need that strong pass into feet for them to finish from relatively close range. Those type of players will NEVER suit playing as a lone striker in a system designed to hold the ball up, but give them the right balls across the area and they''re bloody lethal!The issue is that we simply don''t (and didn''t) play a system that suits a player like RvW (and Hooper to some extent as well), and thusly we''re never likely to see them at their best because of it. It doesn''t make these players bad, it doesn''t make the useless, it just means you either play them in a way which suits, or you play someone else because they simply can''t perform the other roles to the required level. Sadly in the modern game, players like Inzaghi and RvW are seen as outdated and they don''t fit into the modern system which regularly plays a lone striker, either with a man behind in some form of 4-5-1, or with flanking wingers playing higher up in a more traditonal 4-3-3. Until RvW is given a run of games where the players are deliberately and directly trying to give him the balls that he''ll thrive on, then he''ll NEVER hit double figures, in fact he''d probably struggle to get more than 5-6, but this is a direct result of the system rather than the player being a total failure.

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[quote user="hogesar"]
Yep, of course, all our players are in the wrong.
Fer, Snodgrass, Howson, Johnson, Redmond, Odjija, Tettey, Hoolahan, Hooper, Elmander, Brady don''t/didn''t know how to supply Ricky, the devastatingly brilliant striker.
[/quote]
This, again.

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If that was the Tottenham home game in 13/14 previously referenced then I must have been watching something else. Expect an assisst(?) he was uncommitted and unfocused all game and kept losing the ball.

He''s not the most reliable lone striker but... 80th minute at St. Mary''s 1-0 down with Tettey on a yellow? You never know.

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I enjoyed the wolf cries last night. I know also that the crowd treated the whole thing as a joke really. But RVW did keep trying, if the ball was aimed at him and was less than c3 feet above tube ground, no problem. But he is sh&t in the air - he does not have the strength to win outright so tries to win free kicks instead - hugely frustrating when the ref does not buy it, However he is probably a better tackler than Bradders and Tetley; he made at least two tackles last night around our penalty box that probably stopped a goal scoring opportunity being created. He is a conundrum, I remain undecided one way or the other, but the banter aimed at him last night was the best thing about it. Time will tell if that can be translated to the Premier remains to be seen,

As for systems suiting some players, did none of you hear the discussion on 5 Live tonight - exactly the same debate there but not about NCFC, but ManUre and their lack of a sticker - it isn''t easy to find one at the moment that guarantees goals unless you have £40M plus.

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[quote user="TheTetteyRole"]If that was the Tottenham home game in 13/14 previously referenced then I must have been watching something else. Expect an assisst(?) he was uncommitted and unfocused all game and kept losing the ball.

He''s not the most reliable lone striker but... 80th minute at St. Mary''s 1-0 down with Tettey on a yellow? You never know.[/quote]

This has been discussed before, but it just shows how people see what they want to see.  Many of the  crowd gave RVW a standing ovation in that match, me included.   Deluded, or responding to a player putting in a good shift, with his endeavour helping towards the decisive goal?  Hardly a weak or uncommitted performance.

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[quote user="hogesar"]We need to show him more support?!
I don''t know any other set of fans who would be so accomodating for a striker that failed completely in first first season after an 8 mill move, only to go on loan the next season whilst we''re in the Championship, to also fail there (albeit slightly less so than the season with us).
And whilst I agree he seems to have a positive attitude, it''s hardly anything exceptional, is it? Reality is he turned down the opportunity to go back to Sporting because they couldn''t match the wages he''s on. Of course he''s happy, he get''s praised to the hill for a tap in against Rotherham and still picks up 40k a week!
I sincerely hope last night kick-starts his career with us, but I hugely doubt it.
[/quote]

I think by support they mean on the pitch.. as in better service.You little indy wotsit.

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