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A thoroughly good post from from indy_Bones !!

Perhaps our RVW is a bit like Chelsea''s Sutton, where Sporting Lisbon''s system worked extremely well (45 in 88) for him. Then again, he did well at both Vitesse & Utrecht. (47 in 119).

If given the ball their desired positions they, like you said can be very lethal indeed., sort of player Arsene Wenger might fine desirable - a fox in the box almost.

Maybe the Alex Neil system will suit Wolfswinkel!

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[quote user="mrs miggins"]seconded. As team-mates, you can''t help if you''re striker can''t hold the ball up, or finish, or pass.[/quote]
Were you at the game last night Miggins? The bit where RvW brought the ball out of the air with technique not many in our squad can match, swivelled and played the inch perfect pass to set us away 2 on 1 (resulting in a Johnno hack over the bar). He might not be great at winning headers, or holding the ball up, and we''ve certainly not seen evidence he is a good finisher (although there''s plenty of goals on his CV which suggest he can finish), but to say he can''t pass is silly.

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[quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="Tilt"]Sure he might not have been played in the correct way (or whatever that weak excuse is) but for an £8m price tag a few years back, he should have managed more than one measily goal.[/quote]Ok, let''s put this another way, take a world class sniper, a guy who virtually never misses the target he''s aiming at, now tell him to hit targets but here''s the catch - do it without being given any ammunition...how many people do you think he''s actually going to hit without it?I remember having the same argument years ago with a Chelsea fan who was adamant that Sutton was an awful striker who wasn''t good enough for the Prem, never mind Chelsea. I quickly pointed out that Sutton is far and away at his best when being given balls in the air and playing alongside a more technically gifted striker, instead they were constantly playing the ball to his feet in less than favourable positions and wondering why he wasn''t finishing. It wasn''t because Sutton was a bad striker, it was simply that he did not suit the system he was being asked to play in and his goal tally suffered (1 in 28 IIRC). Now I''m pretty certain that you won''t find many fans on here that would say that Sutton was $hit, but the fact was that in the right system he''s a 15-20 a season striker, in the wrong system he''s simply not that good, and it''s no different with RvW.Some strikers need to be used in a system that deliberates works to get the best out of their attributes, which is why players like Drogba, Benteke and similar are ideal target men, because they have the strength and physicality to hold the ball up and deal with 6ft+ centre halves, others like Owen preferred to play on the shoulder of the last man and use his pace to run onto balls, others like RvW, Inzaghi and similar are players that really need that strong pass into feet for them to finish from relatively close range. Those type of players will NEVER suit playing as a lone striker in a system designed to hold the ball up, but give them the right balls across the area and they''re bloody lethal!The issue is that we simply don''t (and didn''t) play a system that suits a player like RvW (and Hooper to some extent as well), and thusly we''re never likely to see them at their best because of it. It doesn''t make these players bad, it doesn''t make the useless, it just means you either play them in a way which suits, or you play someone else because they simply can''t perform the other roles to the required level. Sadly in the modern game, players like Inzaghi and RvW are seen as outdated and they don''t fit into the modern system which regularly plays a lone striker, either with a man behind in some form of 4-5-1, or with flanking wingers playing higher up in a more traditonal 4-3-3. Until RvW is given a run of games where the players are deliberately and directly trying to give him the balls that he''ll thrive on, then he''ll NEVER hit double figures, in fact he''d probably struggle to get more than 5-6, but this is a direct result of the system rather than the player being a total failure.[/quote]
Spot on Indy, shame many of the target audience lack the intellectual capacity to comprehend it.

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kick it off wrote the following post at 26/08/2015 10:14 PM:Were you at the game last night Miggins? The bit where RvW brought the ball out of the air with technique not many in our squad can match, swivelled and played the inch perfect pass to set us away 2 on 1 (resulting in a Johnno hack over the bar). He might not be great at winning headers, or holding the ball up, and we''ve certainly not seen evidence he is a good finisher (although there''s plenty of goals on his CV which suggest he can finish), but to say he can''t pass is silly.

----------------------------

You obviously weren''t at the Fulham game. I sit at that end and remember it well. Here you go:

http://www.thickaccent.com/2014/04/15/ricky-van-wolfswinkels-goofy-no-look-pass-to-an-imaginary-player-during-the-fulham-game/

how silly indeed

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[quote user="mrs miggins"] You obviously weren''t at the Fulham game. I sit at that end and remember it well. Here you go:

http://www.thickaccent.com/2014/04/15/ricky-van-wolfswinkels-goofy-no-look-pass-to-an-imaginary-player-during-the-fulham-game/

how silly indeed[/quote]
The silliest bit is that if a winger had played that ball, you would be slating RvW for not being in the right place to receive the ball due to poor movement.

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Great finish from rvw last night, and miggins your picture and opinion grows tiresome rather quickly.

I don''t think there''s a thread without your overstated opinion stamped all over it.

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It would require a heart of stone not to feel pleased for him after last nights goal. He is one of a number of players who have struggled to adapt to life in the prem. Abel Hernandez, Brown Ideye, Roberto Soldado, Dani Osvaldo have all arrived for big money and have not really had any success. The new £12M striker at WBA looks like he might be another who will struggle.

I would love RVW to prove us all wrong but I''m not sure he will or will even get much opportunity. At best I feel a few cameos from the bench with the odd goal is all we can hope for.

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Will put this out there especially for mrs miggins to show how pathetic his RvW ''ghost pass'' argument is,

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D46-7hGNfdQ8&ved=0CB0QyCkwAGoVChMIjqTThYbIxwIVRuimCh32JAMJ&usg=AFQjCNH91QP-jKaYrsUo0L8F58qyBLTEKg&sig2=3zMmSRNoLl9FI9Jl-bB-9w

It happens to the best of players!

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[quote user="Bor Bor Bor"][quote user="hogesar"]
Yep, of course, all our players are in the wrong.
Fer, Snodgrass, Howson, Johnson, Redmond, Odjija, Tettey, Hoolahan, Hooper, Elmander, Brady don''t/didn''t know how to supply Ricky, the devastatingly brilliant striker.
[/quote]
This, again.
[/quote]
This again.
Training sessions, practice matches, and yet we honestly think none of our midfield players understand how to feed the brilliance of Ricky''s off the ball running?
Massive dose of collective wishful thinking going on all over this thread.  I don''t blame you, I wish he was good too, but suggesting we haven''t been able to get the best out of him (and neither could the French side he was loaned to) is one-eyed nonsense.

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[quote user="Bor Bor Bor"]Massive dose of collective wishful thinking going on all over this thread.  I don''t blame you, I wish he was good too, but suggesting we haven''t been able to get the best out of him (and neither could the French side he was loaned to) is one-eyed nonsense.
[/quote]

Have you ever considered that the opposite view - that he is no good and never will be - is one eyed cynicism?   After all, good players sometimes struggle for no apparent reason  (eg. Iwan Roberts when he first arrived) and that in RVW''s case, his first season with us was a devastating blow to his confidence and last season was a season to try and rediscover it?  (And he was not a complete failure at St. Etienne btw).

These black or white arguments may seem ok on a message board, but in real life, the truth is somewhere in bewtween. He may well get sufficient confidence to at least start scoring again (Tuesday was a start) and be a decent part of the squad - or even more.  And it''s not wishful thinking either - it''s more a pragmatic and sensible view to take on a footballer who has definite ability, but is in the process of rebuilding a career that has taken a huge blip - and by all accounts he is working hard enough to impress his manager into at least starting games - and on Tuesday scoring what proved to be the winning goal.

Now you keep repeating yourself on this thread, something you like to accuse me of, but it doesn''t change the fact that RVW is still our player, is working hard and is worthy of some encouragement and positivity for a difficult situation that he is working hard to correct.  

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[quote user="canary_1902"][quote user="hogesar"]We need to show him more support?!
I don''t know any other set of fans who would be so accomodating for a striker that failed completely in first first season after an 8 mill move, only to go on loan the next season whilst we''re in the Championship, to also fail there (albeit slightly less so than the season with us).
And whilst I agree he seems to have a positive attitude, it''s hardly anything exceptional, is it? Reality is he turned down the opportunity to go back to Sporting because they couldn''t match the wages he''s on. Of course he''s happy, he get''s praised to the hill for a tap in against Rotherham and still picks up 40k a week!
I sincerely hope last night kick-starts his career with us, but I hugely doubt it.
[/quote]

I think by support they mean on the pitch.. as in better service.You little indy wotsit. [/quote]
Unfortunately, your ability to read seems somewhat limited. It''s fine, I understand. You also think RvW is a good player so essentially you''re retarded.
I was replying to the post directly above mine, in which ''Rich T The Biscuit'' wrote, and I quote:
"I think more of us need to show him support on Twitter for last night. "
You little indy wotsit.

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[quote user="hogesar"]
Unfortunately, your ability to read seems somewhat limited. It''s fine, I understand. You also think RvW is a good player so essentially you''re retarded.
I was replying to the post directly above mine, in which ''Rich T The Biscuit'' wrote, and I quote:
"I think more of us need to show him support on Twitter for last night. "
You little indy wotsit.
[/quote]
I remember when I started posting on this forum Hogesar, and you were one of the posters I enjoyed reading most. Now all you ever post is argumentative, arrogant, negative, passive-aggressive b0ll0cks. What happened to make you such a bitter and cantankerous guy?

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kick it off wrote the following post at 27/08/2015 4:05 PM:

hogesar wrote:

Unfortunately, your ability to read seems somewhat limited. It''s fine, I understand. You also think RvW is a good player so essentially you''re retarded.

I was replying to the post directly above mine, in which ''Rich T The Biscuit'' wrote, and I quote:

"I think more of us need to show him support on Twitter for last night. "

You little indy wotsit.

I remember when I started posting on this forum Hogesar, and you were one of the posters I enjoyed reading most. Now all you ever post is argumentative, arrogant, negative, passive-aggressive b0ll0cks. What happened to make you such a bitter and cantankerous guy?

Really KIO? I think he''s just always been this way!

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[quote user="kick it off"][quote user="hogesar"]
Unfortunately, your ability to read seems somewhat limited. It''s fine, I understand. You also think RvW is a good player so essentially you''re retarded.
I was replying to the post directly above mine, in which ''Rich T The Biscuit'' wrote, and I quote:
"I think more of us need to show him support on Twitter for last night. "
You little indy wotsit.
[/quote]
I remember when I started posting on this forum Hogesar, and you were one of the posters I enjoyed reading most. Now all you ever post is argumentative, arrogant, negative, passive-aggressive b0ll0cks. What happened to make you such a bitter and cantankerous guy?
[/quote]
I was mugged by RvW.
Well, I wasn''t, the club was. [:D].
I don''t think I do just post argumentative, arrogant stuff. I have a strong opinion on RvW. The post you''ve quoted is in response to someone having a pop at me for being, essentially, an idiot and missing the point. I was just making it clear that''s not the case.
As for negative, I like to think of myself as one of the more positive posters! I don''t rate RvW but I rate our board, our current players overall, our manager, and think we''ll have a really good season!

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Hog is just upset when the sh*t music he likes becomes popular with other morons and therefore not Indy anymore..A spoilt little brat essentially. The ****.

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[quote user="lharman7"]Really KIO? I think he''s just always been this way![/quote]
To be fair, KIO started in 2005. You started in 2013. You''ve clearly only seen this new passive-aggressive me (according to KIO) as opposed to my previous alter-ego.

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[quote user="canary_1902"]Hog is just upset when the sh*t music he likes becomes popular with other morons and therefore not Indy anymore..A spoilt little brat essentially. The ****. [/quote]
Eh?
Clearly you''re missing something here fella. A brain, for starters.

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[quote user="canary_1902"]Hog is just upset when the sh*t music he likes becomes popular with other morons and therefore not Indy anymore..A spoilt little brat essentially. The ****. [/quote]
Oh and, i''ll bite, but, presuming you''re basing my music taste upon my avatar (logical, to be fair to you) - New Found Glory never were ''Indy''.
As for spoilt little brat? No idea what planet you''re on.

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[quote user="hogesar"]
I was mugged by RvW.
Well, I wasn''t, the club was. [:D].
I don''t think I do just post argumentative, arrogant stuff. I have a strong opinion on RvW. The post you''ve quoted is in response to someone having a pop at me for being, essentially, an idiot and missing the point. I was just making it clear that''s not the case.
As for negative, I like to think of myself as one of the more positive posters! I don''t rate RvW but I rate our board, our current players overall, our manager, and think we''ll have a really good season!
[/quote]
[:D] Lol.
Fair enough mate, maybe I''ve just noticed a couple of ones like the above but not noticed the more positive ones (entirely possible, I don''t always read the usernames of the posts)
[:)]
PS - I''m as amused as you at NFG being called "indy" [sic]. Bit like saying Reel Big Fish are a jazz band or Bowling For Soup are post-metalcore [:D] [:D] [:D] [:D]

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Bor bor bor and hogesar, i have a few questions for you regarding RvW.

Do you think the team created enough chances to score under the guidance of Chris Hughton in terms of style and play?

As the majority (debatable) would agree, our style of play under Hughton stifled any lone striker that played in said position. Do you not maybe think this had a huge impact on the way RvW plays and his confidence?

Now i know you both are of extreme footballing knowledge and probably regard yourselves as among the elite on this very forum but could you both please try to answer my questions in a more simplistic form with a yes or no answer?

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[quote user="kick it off"]
[:D] Lol.
Fair enough mate, maybe I''ve just noticed a couple of ones like the above but not noticed the more positive ones (entirely possible, I don''t always read the usernames of the posts)
[:)]
PS - I''m as amused as you at NFG being called "indy" [sic]. Bit like saying Reel Big Fish are a jazz band or Bowling For Soup are post-metalcore [:D] [:D] [:D] [:D]
[/quote]
To be fair, you''ve probably noticed them on the RvW threads! Which is purely down to me not being able to identify with any of the positive views on him! Maybe it''s just me, but no matter how I try and look at it from different perspectives, I genuinely dont understand the way RvW is put on a pedestal by some, essentially what Purple Canary said earlier.
And yeah, I''m not really sure what angle he''s going for there! [:D]

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[quote user="lharman7"]Bor bor bor and hogesar, i have a few questions for you regarding RvW.

Do you think the team created enough chances to score under the guidance of Chris Hughton in terms of style and play?

As the majority (debatable) would agree, our style of play under Hughton stifled any lone striker that played in said position. Do you not maybe think this had a huge impact on the way RvW plays and his confidence?

Now i know you both are of extreme footballing knowledge and probably regard yourselves as among the elite on this very forum but could you both please try to answer my questions in a more simplistic form with a yes or no answer?[/quote]
Since you asked so politely!
1) I don''t think we created enough chances under Chris Hughton full stop. That''s not to say we didn''t create any chances, and RvW did have a few really good one''s which he failed to take.
2) It clearly did have an impact on his confidence, because as i''ve said all along, in the earlier part of the season he was making the correct runs, and his movement was occasionally creating space. Regardless, even if you take away the fact he scored 1 goal for us all season, he never showed a particularly good first touch, no real ball skill, no real pace, no strength, no decent link up play. It''s why I don''t think he''s any good for us, as a lone striker. Had he gone and scored 20 goals at St Etienne, then i''d have been more willing to give him a chance. Reality is he failed there and ended up on the bench towards the end of the season, unable to get into their squad.

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hogesar wrote the following post at 27/08/2015 9:35 AM:

..................................... As for negative, I like to think of myself as one of the more positive posters! I don''t rate RvW but I rate our board, our current players overall, our manager, and think we''ll have a really good season!

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Without realising it you have summed the situation up.

I must be one of the few!

I do not believe RvW is the answer to all our prayers but I do not believe that he is completely useless.

I also rate our board, our current players overall, our manager, and think we''ll have a really good season!

And because I rate our manager I will back him with whatever decision he makes about RvW because it doesn''t really matter what I think of him it is what our manager thinks and what he thinks he can get from him.

I believe he played against Rotherham so that AN could get a good look at him in a competitive match so that he could get a better evaluation of him.

Obviously RvW has some ability otherwise he would not be capped by one of the top international teams. Time will tell whether that ability can be used by AN in the set up he prefers.

But, again, I seem to be in the minority because I am prepared to wait and see!

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