Russell Martin

[Ray 111]

[quote user="mrs miggins"]what a load of b0ll0cks[/quote]

Mrs M,

How eloquent, however I''m sure (hoping) you have it in you to be a little more descriptive of what exactly you don''t agree with and make a cogent argument against the point(s).

If you are unable to, then It may just be your reply makes the overall thrust of my post, because your opinion (and by that I mean anyone''s opinion) proves you (them) right, just as I alluded to in my post, that mine does for me.

[Rich T The Biscuit 562]

Clearly RM is a divider is concerned on this forum and for the record I''m in the camp that he needs to be left out of the side.

Yes he has been a great servant, yes he is a great guy (I''ve met him a couple of times) and yes he gives 110% and this is what every manager will see.

It was mentioned earlier that our minds get set through what we think, can that not be said the same for those that see a positive in what he does.

I spend a lot of time watching players, what they do, what decisions they make etc and there are good aspects to what he brings to the team, he works hard for the team, he is usually the guy that makes the last ditch blokes and for that he clearly reads the game well, going back towards his own goal. That point is relevant, when you play in the Championship you get more time, you get lesser quality of players and that is where he plays best, unfortunately the Premier League is a step to far for him and you can see that in the way he plays.

He is comfortable on the ball when he has time, he isn''t when he doesn''t and that''s why we are seeing more of his passes going astray, with the worst example being the one a few weeks ago when he was standing on the touch line and kicked it straight out; also a lot of his long balls at the moment are either over hit or go out, again because he hasn''t got as much time to choose his pass.

I think the personal stuff on here is unnecessary but his time to sit out has arrived, fans don''t have faith in his any more and he can probably tell that, if he hasn''t read it.

[mrs miggins 0]

Surely its just called having an opinion instead of dominant thought theory.

I think Russell Martin isn''t good enough because of what I see, you think he is good enough because of what you see. However, when he does something good on the pitch I will point it out, just like when he does something ''bad'' (e.g. back pass) I''m sure you''d notice it as well.

You/I/anyone are not in some Russell Martin trance where we can only have one fixed opinion of him. If he started to play well I''m sure many of the Martin naysayers such as myself would point it out.

[BroadstairsR 2,159]

Yes, but Ray you implied it was all pre-conception and that we see what we chose to see.

That''s not the case.The talk is about Russel Martin, who I have always supported. I have now changed and feel we need better in that position.

Our goals against column is absurd. I have lost faith in the defence, especially RM, but Bassong ''aint much better these days. RM might well have some talents in that position, but they are clearly insufficient to justify AN sticking with the same defensive formation that has cost a lot of goals and points this season.

We need to try change. RM needs to take a back seat. We have two new defenders and our hope now is that they make a difference. Our lack of solidarity at the back will relegate us if not.

Change is needed and it starts with the resting /omission of Russell, as good a servant as he has been and one of my all-time favourites btw.

[mrs miggins 0]

BR proves my point there. More and more people have changed their opinion of him during the season. Luckily over the last few months the manager has started to see it as well, just like he cottoned onto the fact that Whittaker shouldn''t be in the team either because he isn''t good enough.

[Ray 111]

RT,

You are absolutely correct re the point ''for those that see the positives'' as I alluded to in my original mail, however, those that are perhaps more ''neutral'' about his performance, his manager(s), management teams and pundits, appear not to lay all our defensive ills at his feet. However, that won''t alter the opinions of those with fixed views about; how every goal we concede somehow has something to do with what he did wrong. Let''s face it, for some even if he didn''t commit the cardinal sin, then it''s still his fault because he can''t organise our defence and is a crap leader!

[mrs miggins 0]

Well I''m sorry if I don''t take Alan Shearer''s excellent analysis of Norwich too seriously.

Fans views won''t alter the manager''s opinion as you say, but as I said previously, Whittaker is now out of the team after AN finally realised he''s not up to it and Martin was then shifted to RB, only playing a few games at CB since he''s realised Bennett is better there. He''s also brought in a CB; we''ll see who gets replaced in the next few matches. Personally today I think he (Martin) could start with Klose before Bennett comes in more permanently, but thats just my opinion.

[Rich T The Biscuit 562]

I guess that''s the point though isn''t it, he isn''t really a leader on the pitch where we need him. It always surprises me when O''Neil is on the pitch that AN calls him over to give him instructions, OK he can''t call RM over when he''s at centre half but he could when he''s at full back on that side.

Going back to the Liverpool game as that''s when all of this uproar started, AN admitted he played RM as he felt he would do a better job on Firmino, therefore RM was asked to pick him up personally (else why say it), Firmino scored 2 and of course RM made the mistake of passing back to Rudd and we know the rest. Was he at fault for all of the goals, no, did his howler put us on the back foot, yes it did.

I''m never being personal about any player, but in my opinion he needs to be taken out of the picture for both his benefit and for the fans, we need all fans behind the team tonight and every other game and at the moment there are a lot more fans who believe he has had his day than don''t.

Plus, why buy Pinto if you''re not going to play him and the same is said for Klose

[Ray 111]

Thanks Mrs M,

You are correct, but your opinions are your dominant thoughts, at that time, if you change your opinion then you have different dominant thoughts, and the brain is hard wired to prove you right basd on your opinions/dominant thoughts. Now, if you have an opinion about yourself that you are open minded and prepared to change your opinion given the correct set of circumstances, then you are of course far more likely to see ''both or more'' sides of a situation and so it goes on. Unfortunately there are some people who believe, and will never believe otherwise, that their opinion is the only one.

And finally, if common sense was really common we would all have it wouldn''t we? when someone says, well it''s common sense to.... what they really mean is; that is the way I would do it. When someone says, what awful music, what they really mean is; it''s not the type of music I would listen to. You can tell a great deal about a person when they are being judgemental, they reveal quite a lot about themself.

Of what fun we are having, let''s hope it''s a much fun tonight, no matter who plays where.

[Indy 3,297]

Call it however you see it......RM at RB and we keep clean sheet, RM at CB and we get tanked on more than one time!

We have spent big this January, the latest addition from Covvy is obviously Wes''s replacement long term.

Pinto, Klose to start tonight, you don''t spend 11 million on two new players and sit them on the bench after two weeks of training,

Ram a great squad player but down the pecking order in my opinion, but that counts for nothing, it''s AN choice.

[The Bristol Nest 513]

This has been one of the more enjoyable spats to read Mrs M and Ray. I like RM and I admire his ability to create that extra second to deliver the ball to the deep midfielder. However even my quest for confirmation bias to support my fondness for him at CB has evaporated over the past couple of weeks.  Get the new guys in.

[Ray 111]

Thanks bristol,

My personal opinion is that we will start with two old guys tonight, could be wrong of course? If that is the case I do feel for RM, on a hiding to nothing and against Spurs, still, I think he''s man enough and got broad enough shoulders to deal with it. He will either confirm or change some opinions (there''s that word again) tonight, having said that I still believe, and of course prove myself right frequently, that our midfield fails in its duty to help out our defence, leaving them exposed to runners far too often.

[mrs miggins 0]

Out of interest, are you a psychologist Ray?

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

Martin needs a ''rest'' - he must be aware of the scrutiny he is under right now and it must be playing on his mind. To put him out onto the pitch again tonight would be damaging to him, in my opinion.

Martin is a perfectly decent RB at prem level, better than some, worse than others but right now he is out of form and confidence and needs protected by his manager.

Let the new boys play, it is who everyone wants to see and they need game time.

This is all immaterial though if the sickness bug is as bad as some of the rumours suggest, it will be a case of whole can play rather than who should play.

[Ray 111]

Mrs M,

I have my moments, bearing in mind every moment has its anti moment!!

[Ray 111]

Bethnal,

You may be right re playing on his mind, however any event or words is/are meaningless (neutral), until such time as you give it/them meaning, no matter what they are. The meaning you give them is a merciless reflection of the values and beliefs you hold.

Is it easy to think of every thing as neutral, impossible imo, you already have values and beliefs, however if you understand the concept of neutral it can and will change the way you think about ‘things’ and may reduce stress.

So it sort of depends on RM’s state of mind, how psychologically strong (if that is the right word) he is.

Given a certain set of values and beliefs, which lead to thought processes, it may make him a better player. However, negative psychology can be a dangerous game to play.

IMO he is of strong character and would think he knows how to manipulate his brain to get the best out of himself, which of course guarantees bu66er all, because one thing is for sure, none of us control the world, just they way we think about it. Sh*t happens, what defines you is the way you deal with (think about) it.

[firststeps 0]

I don''t get it, I really don''t get it, absolute joke playing this guy in positions he clearly isn''t good at.

AN, I''m really starting to doubt your ability.

[Ginja 26]

 Complete rubbish from him again today, the guy was barely acceptable in the Championship, should have been shipped out in the summer. Yes he''s a lovely man and a hard worker but being nice won''t cut it, we need to be a more ruthless club instead of nice little Norwich.

[zippy23255 0]

For the first goal he wasn''t watching where the ball was he was just trying to hold the player in front of him. Didn''t even try to jump for the ball.

The second he just stood off and let AV pass round him. If he had got stuck in he probably wouldn''t have got the ball but he wouldn''t have given the player the time to pick his pass.

Yes I know none of our players played well and some made some howlers but they don''t do it every week.

[ZLF 274]

Cant say his performance was a problem yesterday - the issue really wasnt the back 4 but the midfield - but hey ho.

The first goal was solely down to Mbokani - stupid foul to conceded to start with and then simply couldnt be arsed to defend his man, who he allowed to get goal side, be stronger and have a free header to take the vital first goal. It was a simply free kick to defend if the player focus''; he didnt

The second goal bassong was covering and would have shepherded agbonlahor wide and made it difficult had rudd not made things easy with his mad rush of blood.

Neither was either directly or indirectly down to martin, but lets keep the vilification going

[hogesar 9,657]

Martin didn''t have a brilliant game but he was not the cause of either of Villas goals.

[Yellow and Green 334]

I was at the game yesterday and he was fine. A couple of missed placed passes but nothing too bad.

I actually think that he is our best right back. I''m not saying he''s amazing, but he is decent in defence and decent going forward.

Pinto and Whittaker''s strength is the attacking part of their play and we can''t really afford to have someone who get exposed at right back.

[pliff 4]

Absolutely agree zippy the man is not good enough has cost us lots of points with his inability to tackle hard and defend set pieces. But he will play against WHAM because AN is an obstinate Jock and he will bite his nose off to spite his face, I am sick of this football club at the minute clueless.

[Herman 9,754]

[quote user="hogesar"]Martin didn''t have a brilliant game but he was not the cause of either of Villas goals.[/quote]Agree. Get the feeling people are just lazy thinkers and just want to blame their usual target and not bother to look at the evidence.

[Yellow and Green 334]

Absolutely Herman and Hogesar.

Just watched Goals on Sunday and it was Klose and Rudd who were highlighted as at fault for the goals.

No mention of Martin, apart from being once referred to - organising the defence and trying to hold the line for their first. It was Klose who broke it and kept Lescott onside.

[kick it off 1,948]

I''m not one of Martin''s biggest fans by any stretch of the imagination, and have highlighted goals he has caused several times but it''s pretty hard to say either of those two had much to do with him. 

Mbokani at fault for the first, both for the free kick, and for lazy marking. 

Rudd at fault for the second, as others have mentioned, Bassong was pushing Agbonlahor out wide and there was no need for Rudd to be anywhere near where he ended up. Also have to say I think Ruddy would have come out for the first and cleared it.

Neither goal was Martin''s fault and he played OK yesterday. No worse than most of the rest of them.

The weakest player yesterday was Mulumbu by a country mile.

[ellis206 0]

[quote user="zippy23255"]For the first goal he wasn''t watching where the ball was he was just trying to hold the player in front of him. Didn''t even try to jump for the ball.

The second he just stood off and let AV pass round him. If he had got stuck in he probably wouldn''t have got the ball but he wouldn''t have given the player the time to pick his pass.

Yes I know none of our players played well and some made some howlers but they don''t do it every week.[/quote]You may not rate Martin and that''s entirely your choice, but to try and blame him for goals that quite clearly were not his fault is just making you look like a petulant child with a grudge.

[ron obvious 1,502]

Ellis, you''ve just described 60% of pink''un posters (although 80% of those are Waveney).

[firststeps 0]

He must be the biggest teachers pet on this planet, the guy is useless!! (Witnessed from my seat in the Jarrold)!

[firststeps 0]

Another goal comes from the position that Martin was non existent in!