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Russell Martin

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What I and others object to is not reasonable criticism of Martin but the scapegoating which makes out that he somehow contributes uniquely to the team''s defensive frailty. Like all our players he has his strengths and his weaknesses; like all our players, there are many better than him in his position(s) both in the EPL and elsewhere. But this is not a reason for falsely accusing him of errors which he doesn''t make, or for focussing on him and ignoring the weaknesses of others in the side (does anyone think that Bennett''s distribution is better than Martin''s?). Nor is it a reason to ignore the fact that the back line has too often been left inadequately protected by those in front of them. The biggest factor in our recent improvement defensively has not been team selection but the adoption of a different strategy.

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It''s a valid point WCC, you can look at every player and find fault (general you by the way).

But it is important to recognise that every player has both postive and negative traits and of they didn''t they wouldn''t be playing for us.....

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[quote user="Rich T The Biscuit"]It''s a valid point WCC, you can look at every player and find fault (general you by the way).

But it is important to recognise that every player has both postive and negative traits and of they didn''t they wouldn''t be playing for us.....[/quote]
Two other points: (1) AN selects Martin at CB because he wants the team to play a certain way; unless people take that on board they will never understand e.g. why AN selected Martin ahead of Bennett against Everton. (2) Relatedly, AN''s preferred way of playing places greater technical demands on the players, increasing the likelihood of certain kinds of error; it is much easier to resort to "old fashioned" defending.

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Now that we have Pinto we may not see a lot of Martin any more. The CB experiment has certainly failed.

I pray that we can lure a quality CB or two before Feb. We are so vulnerable in that department.

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I have not seen the game as a whole, but from what I understand, Ryan B did not have the best of games today...

Having said that, there is a tendency of shipping goals whenever Ruddy is in goal, and Martin plays CB...

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And why the need to resurrect this thread yet again after 2 weeks of inactivity-what''s wrong with the match thread?

Some people contribute nothing to this forum except to pop up occasionally to criticise a player then not to be seen again for ages.

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HK, I only need to resurrect it because of his poor performance.. again. He was moved onto a position where he had control of the central defenders and he messed it up. Funny though, I thought Bennett had a good game, as did several pundits apparently!

I don''t know why you get so defensive HK, the bloke is not a premier league defender, simple as that.

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I just feel the need to balance out what I feel is unfairly singling Russ out when others are poor as well. Why don''t you single out our other players when they play poorly?

You say his poor performance...again. Why did this thread remain dormant for 2 weeks? Because Russ was playing well but you didn''t want to highlight it on your thread?

He gets stick for apparently demanding to be played at CB (which is untrue), has been back at RB where I feel he has been playing well then gets put into CB today against some of the best players in the world and all of our defenders struggle.

You have your opinion and I have mine-the world would be a boring place if everyone agreed!

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I too was at the game

All of the defenders had good moments - but made too many indecisive mistakes - but russ was not the worse (his passing was a bit scary at time though) by some way

Bennett was v poor; martin covered the gaps he left by being out of position far too frequently (I see no credit for that here) - it was one of these more idiotic lapses that lead to the killer second goal - with again martin and whole defence shifting right, when a little defensive discipline from Ryan would meant aguero would not have moved the acres available to him.

Olsson and Bennett were defensively poor (although MO did push forward with some effort), martin inconsistent with good moments and seb solid overall simply lacking pace for the opener; I thought wisdom was defensively tidy and the best of the back 5 yesterday.

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In reply to Zipper. Wisdom may have been defensively the best of the back five yesterday, albeit by a very fine margin, but he offered very little going forward.

He seems very indecisive when he gets into the opposition half and offered them little or no threat all match. The fact we played with wing backs would suggest that we should have seen much more from him. Although I am far from a Steven Whittaker fan at least he gives the opposing defence something to think about with good, positive, attacking from those wide positions, unlike Wisdom.

I think Mr Wisdom needs a reality check if he believes he can play for us and impress enough for Jurgen Klopp to want him back at Liverpool.

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agree with that YW; it is his attacking forays that are not good enough for ANs formations; in a 541 you need width from the full backs and wisdom didnt offer that; there were some decent creative passes, albeit from deeper he does offer the defensive cover missing from the other rb options. I thats why he pinto has signed - to be a combination of wisdom and whittaker.

I get Wisdoms dream of wanting to play for his childhood team; but I dont think he is good enough for klopp. but he is not a bad player and is a decent defender - just not what we want from a rb

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I will keep this thread alive until the clueless clown is dropped. And you Martin lovers realise HE ISNT UP TO PREMIERSHIP STANDARD.

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Here is my post from the other Martin thread:

Not Ranked

Joined on 10/08/2015

Posts 259

Re: Martin

Let''s all blame Russ again for other defenders playing poorly. This is pathetic it really is-Brady poor on the goal but it''s Russ''s fault?

As for crosses coming in-is he the only player in the league whose side crosses come from? No-there are dozens across the league every week.

Yes,it could have been a penalty but it wasn''t given, so it doesn''t matter. Don''t remember the pitch forks out when Bassong gave away the penalty against Leicester.

If the opposition scored from a cross when Russ was CB it was his fault not the LB or RB.

If the opposition score from a cross when Russ is at RB it''s his fault again, not the CB.

It''s typical bullying mentality unfortunately

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None of our defenders are Premier league quality but because Bassong andBennett are popular with people at the moment they make the same or worse mistakes as Russ and barely get a mention. How on on earth is Russ to blame for the goal when Brady didn''t mark the scorer?

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Spot on Kenneth, it''s embarrasing people are blaming Martin for that goal, crosses will come in to the box all day long at both ends the pitch. In fact, more crosses have come from our left today but Martin has been in position in the box to deal with the far post crosses, Brady needs to learn from him and Bassong needs dropping.

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[quote user="Making Plans"]Having a great game then is he?[/quote]The point is nobody is having a great game, you could have literally scapegoated anyone.

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I don''t see anyone saying he is having a great game-he''s not and nor is anyone else. It''s the pathetic scapegoating that is my issue-he gets the blame for everything even when it''s clearly someone else''s fault.

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Oh great!!! Russ cant even give away a penalty. He has to rely on VOO to do that..

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He''s done it again, the bloke is a clown! DROP HIM. Is it a coincidence that we kept clean sheets when he wasn''t in the team, NO! I''m angry.

And as for Redmond, sell sell sell!

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How did Bassong play today First Steps, and Brady? Wes? Redmond? Seems you have an intense hatred of one player for some reason and like to single him out. Didn''t post on this thread for a couple of weeks when he was playing in the clean sheet victories did you?

As I keep saying, my issue is one player being singled out when other make similar or worse mistakes and barely get a mention

Good old Bass, it''s ok he''s not this seasons scapegoat despite being a poor player so we won''t mention his mistakes.

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