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Russell Martin

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Grefstad it looks as though no matter what Martin does you wouldn''t like him anyway and are just fixated on his flaws and blaming others mistakes on him. All players have flaws in their game and that''s why clubs try and build a balanced team so that they can work together and be better than the sum of their parts.

Have a look at the other qualities he brings to the team. He has a number of attributes our other defenders do not, he is a passer of the ball who can play a quality diagonal and starts moves from the back. He is also excellent at moving forward with ball and this in turn moves the entire team forward improving our territory in games and prevents us from getting pinned back. Both of these attributes are an important part of the way Alex Neil wants us to set up and play.

His reading of the game is good, you will often see him intercepting the ball and preventing attacks and he is solid in one on one situations too. He isn''t a traditional battling centre back who wins lots of headers but Bassong does that job and he tucks in behind to clean up bits and pieces.

For me his leadership isn''t as bad as you think, he has been Club Captain and Team Captain under a few Managers now. He was captain at Peterborough, Lambert often used him as captain when Holt wasn''t playing, Hughton made him Club Captain, Neil Adams made him captain and now Alex Neil has him as his captain too. He has also been tipped as a future Manager and Alex Neil has mentioned in interview that he is his link between him and the squad, something I think speaks volumes of his leadership qualities. He comes across as an intelligent thoughtful person, not all leaders are guts and thunder. The most important thing in a good leader is having the ability to carry out the duties your manager expect of you and the respect of those you lead, clearly Russell has that otherwise he wouldn''t have the armband.

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Martin''s not the only one who has regularly turned in poor performances at this level, you''ve also got Ruddy, Whittaker, Bennett, Johnson, Hooper, Wolfswinkel....we needed a summer clear out in order to survive.

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@Dead Canary: I''m not bashing Martin at all times, but yes, I am critical to Martin being made a mainstay in our defence. He is a converted rightback, not a natural CB. Also, I am hughely critical to his captain credentials, although I am naturally aware of him being captain under several managers in several teams. But I have a feeling that one thing leads to another. Being captain at Peyerboro leading to become faptain (easier) at Norwich. Pkaying CB for Norwich leading to him playing CB for Scotland, etc.

Its almost like managers are doing a lazy job and surfing on what other managers before them once decided.

Now, who am I to question the knowledge of Strachan, Hughton, Lambert, Neil, etc?

You''re right, I have no credentials, but I have seen enough football to pass judgement that Martin is not a very good centreback, nor a good captain.

I also think the mistake of Martin being made captain has made him undroppable from the team, although his performances on many occasions have been way below par, and without the captain title he would have been easier replaced.

So yes, I dont belong in the Martin fan club. And no, I am not fixated only on his flaws. I am trying to see the bigger picture of what we, as a club, need in terms of player types. Martin is a type we dont need, as there are way better defenders out there, at reasonable prices. Martin is a decent squad player, vut not a mainstay, and certainly not captain material, in my eyes.

Other opinions are ofcourse respected.

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I think a manager has too much to lose from doing as you put it a lazy job. They have livelihoods and reputations on the line every time they put a team out in what is a cut throat industry where getting the sack could mean never getting a chance to manage again. They also have the advantage we don''t which is seeing how players conduct themselves away from the pitch and the influence they have over those around them so are far better placed than either of us to make that call. So far the overwhelming evidence is that those who work closely with him think he is the best person for the role.

Him as a player i think is suited to the Alex Neil style of play and the bigger picture from my angle is that we have other areas that are a priority before replacing Martin. Obviously now Turner has moved on we do need another centre back and if we can sign one who is better then fantastic. I just don''t believe it will be that easy as he is a better player than given credit for.

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If Koulibaly signs, it will be intetesting to see who he replaces. On performances, it would be natural for him to take Martin''s place.

I dont think Bassong will take a dropping lightly, and could create unrest.

So AN has the problem of either dropping an underperforming captain, or a defender that has played rather well (Bassong).

Will be interesting indeed.

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i think it''s absolutely mad for people to even consider dropping bassong if we signed another centre back. He''s been brilliant for us for seasons, very occasionally try''s something bizarre but that''s why he''s not playing even higher.

All this stuff about dropping the captain/leader is all bizarre in reality, he''s got an armband on and that''s about as far as it goes as In my opinion, when I watch the game I see bassong and tettey pointing and shouting far more than Martin does.

He''s a favourite of many and has been an incredible servant, saw how much it meant to him when we went back up to the prem but ultimately we have to sign players to improve the team. Bradley Johnson for example, amazing season last year but I can''t wait to see Brady left midfield and that certainly leaves no room for Johnson. If I had to pick 1 from bassong and Martin I''d have bassong every single time. Think Martin will have more chance getting a game at right back but even then I think I''d rather have Whittaker

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Indeed Grefstad that is a big if. Reality is though we probably won''t sign some one like Kouilabaly. If we do then I don''t think either player would be dropped and we would probably see Martin move out to right back as we would benefit from his attacking ability and would be a slight improvement on Whittaker in one on one situations.

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Lets face it the Russell Martin saga continues.I understand that Whittaker was a root cause of the three goals yesterday but RM AGAIN could be argued to be at fault for two of the goals.The first goal, yes JH made an error up the pitch, but RM had to oportunities to stop Pelle scoring -One was to use his football brain, step up, and truely catch Pelle offside.Two would be to simply GET IN FRONT OF YOUR MAN In eiether of these situations we go into HT and naught naught and its game on.The third goal he let that cheating arsewipe TADIC get to the rebound first without even anticipating a the save rebound from Ruddy.Two out of three goals RM was at fault for.If you add to that his little ballet dancer jump and turn of back for Palace third and stokes goal at home thats four goals in four games.If anybody thinks that is acceptable then you are completely dilussional.

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If we get another CB in, it will be interesting to see what happens. I suspect that Martin and Bassong will still be the first choices until results dictate otherwise.  If we let in too many goals in the next few matches, then the defenders will be at risk if losing their places.  At right back, Wisdom has the chance to make the position his own now Whittaker is out for a game, any competition at CB will mean the same applies.

Getting another CB in will focus Martin''s mind a bit - because he knows the manager won''t hesitate to drop him if his level isn''t high enough. That is what competition for places is all about - and Martin, captain or no captain - is the in the same position as anyone in that respect.

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Tettey one of the points I was trying to make was that a leader doesn''t have to be someone who points and shouts a lot. Many different qualities are needed to be a good leader. Communication is vital and can come in the form of a quiet word in someone''s ear, it can be the ability to interpret the managers information and pass that on to others in a simple clear way. Sometimes it is noticing when a player is losing confidence and putting an arm around his shoulder and picking them up again.

Some of the best leaders I have worked with you respect because of their ability, sometimes their knowledge other times it is because they have the charisma that dictates when they speak you listen. Ultimately though a good leader has respect and you do as directed even when you think they are wrong. For all the shouting and pointing Bassong does it doesn''t make him a leader because there is so much more to it than that as we saw when we was the captain. It''s a tough role and most don''t have the skill set and mentality required to do so.

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VFTJ The issue here is as you even mention yourself, he wasn''t the only one who made mistakes, how ever Russell seems to be carrying a disproportionate amount of the blame. The third goal not a single defender reacted to support Ruddy who made a good save. Wisdom was also very out of position on that one and the second goal. The first was offside but not given and yes he could have stepped up a little to make it more obvious but I think it''s hyper critical.

I think collective blame should be taken. We win and lose as a team after all.

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For me, there is always this feeling that Martin gets away with his faults, because he is a "nice bloke".

All too often the errors made by Martin is being sussed down as a "collective error", "lot''s of players to blame", etc.

I agree with Dead Canary that it is generally counterproductive searching for scapegoats all the time, but most fans are not idiots. People who have seen Martin play at this level, and in the Championship, will see he is not at the level you would want your captain and central defender(s) to be at.

Yes, he is a nice guy. Great guy, infact. But in footballing terms, I repeat he is not good enough as a central defender, and his continued presence at CB, which I believe is largely due to his captain title, will cost us a lot of points this season.

It remains to be seen what will happen if a new defender comes in. I suspect Whittaker will be sacrificed, and Martin moved to RB, with the new defender coming in partnering Bassong.

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Poor for club.. poor for Country. How this guy gets selected with his defensive performances is baffling!? He''s either lazy, tactically unaware or just to old and slow?

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He''s bleating on in the papers today about the disappointment about not getting his Scottish friend and colleague Naismith in the transfer window. A striker who is 3rd choice at his club and can''t get a shot on target against Georgia! Martin trying to build his old boys network around him.

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I have never disliked a city player as much as I dislike him. His arm

Waving and pointing when he makes a mistake is laughable and the way he gets in face of referee trying to represent the team is a joke. Show you are a leader by performing and your team and your fans will respect you. He does not do that.

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That''s quite a strong point of view Viewfromthejarrold, but with your Viewfromthejarrold you are clearly in a good place to be opinionated.

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One of the nicest blokes I''ve ever met. Top lad and can see why he is captain.

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[quote user="Bor Bor Bor"]"I have never disliked a city player as much as I dislike him."

Oh, where to start![/quote]I wouldn''t even bother, some people are just beyond help and don''t know the meaning of the word respect.

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[quote user="curious yellow"]Bleating on? It''s called giving encouragement. It can work[/quote]

My point being... do we need someone nearing the end of their career when clearly we aimed so much higher!

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I think Martin is far from our worst option at CB. As others have said, his qualities behind the scenes are often vaunted, and he is certainly ''functional'' at this level as a player.
HOWEVER... my biggest problem with Martin is that he has that one huge blindspot that more often than not does play a role in us conceding.
As FM2015 would put it ''the player lacks the physicality or mentality to ever really challenge properly for an aerial ball''.
Perhaps it''s because he''s such a nice guy, he lacks that all-important attribute at CB to go and make the ball yours. When was the last time you can remember Martin cleaning someone out? Not that I''m saying we need to revert to an Allardyce/ Pulis team of cloggers, but you need that aggression in that position. And I think that''s the main thing that stands against R Martin at the moment.

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[quote user="KoromaCrab"]If Norwich do get a new CB, then who is to be replaced?

Bassong or Martin?[/quote]

Martin and in the meantime play Ryan Bennett alongside Bassong.

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Talk about a broken record. If you look back far enough you''ll find posts stating that his position in the team should be replaced by Micky Spillane! Whatever happened to him while Russell Martin was gaining 2 promotions from the Championship, playing 3 years in the Premiership and becoming an International regular. Surely Lambert, Hughton, Strachan and now Neil would not keep picking him if he was as inept as some make out?

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