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Russell Martin

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Happens with a few of our players, past and present. Fans will pick up on every little error, ignoring those made by their ''favourite'' players, and build up a scapegoat in their heads. I''ve seen Wes Hoolahan picked out for some criticism, which of course can sometimes be justified. Every time he gives it away he''ll be jeered by some, yet when others do it it''s completely ignored. Yet when Wes has a good game, nothing''s mentioned. In some cases one of our scapegoats will have a blinding game, agreed by all, and the detractors will still try and find a fault in the performance to prove their point.

I''m all for giving constructive criticism, but Russell Martin has become the go to guy for our problems in recent months, silly when it goes overboard and personal.

A bit off topic I know, but hopefully you can see where I''m coming from.

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As much as Martin took up a Zonal marking position for the first goal, while the other defenders man-marked, and was part of a trio who stood and watched Delaney tap in for the second, he wasn''t alone in mistakes on Saturday.

Brady got caught by Puncheon for the first meaning Bassong had to move across and drag the rest of the defenders out of position, although Tettey should''ve got back and helped. Brady then didn''t move up with the rest of the defence for the third, allowing Cabaye to remain on side.

No one player is to blame, there were a collection of errors against Palace, and if we are to stay up this season, the team will have to cut them out these simple mistakes.

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When Martin lead the team out his right foot touched the grass first, statistically we win more games when his left is the first to touch the pitch. [*-)]

 

 

 

 

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I don''t think anybody can deny that he gives everything everytime he plays however at this level this isn''t enough. Yes he can be a decent back up at CB/RB but we urgently need better quality at CB. The 3rd goal on Saturday was embarrassing defending at L2 level let alone PL. A suitable replacement is needed ASAP.

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Brady is not a top notch left back so we really need Olsson back asap.

Johnson is not a premier league wide midfielder so we really need Olsson back asap so Brady can be pushed forward.

Martin''s effort at blocking the third goal plus the moment when he let Murray in show why he is not a natural centre back. The third goal in particular. That jump was the instinct of a full back trying to block a cross. Centre backs do not usually jump in the air and turn their backs like that thus allowing the ball to be threaded underneath them. a

A lot of focus on getting a striker in but Jerome will do fine if we provide the sort of service Grabban (who we know is wasteful and thus i''m afraid we cannot risk starting too often) got on Saturday. The defence is the priority for me. we need Olsson back and we need a new centre back. That this does not appear to have been the number one priority all summer is a little alarming.

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When I complained that my pie wasn''t very hot I was told it was due to Martin not turning the ovens on properly.

 

 

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I''d say he was at fault for two of the goals unfortunately. He dived in for Zaha''s or Delaney''s goal when he would have been better staying on his feet. For their third goal he jumped and turned his back when the pass was made to Cabaye which was unnecessary. He shouldn''t have to turn his back, as the guy didn''t look like he was going to shoot. It is annoying as these are elementary mistakes that you see in non league football.

Hopefully these mistakes can be eradicated. If not, we will really struggle as there are at least ten teams better than Crystal Palace capable of ripping us apart.

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Those of you who clearly take umbrage with Martin should get used to seeing him play at centre back week in week out. There has been no indication that the Manager is looking to replace him. He kept him as his captain and has also played him whenever he has been available suggesting that he doesn''t see what you see when you watch Martin play. What I can see of Alex Neil is someone who likes consistency to his back 5 and he clearly sees Russ as a big part of that. His whole approach seems to be about playing out from the back. Russ is our best ball playing defender so will play regularly unless we change style. There were mistakes from numerous players defensively, to put the blame on one player is short sighted and at worst just plain bias.

On another note I have seen a lot mentioned about how these are the players that got us relegated so will do so again. When we got relegated we kept 12 clean sheets that season. Which was something like the 10th best in the league. The only change in our defence/ Keepers since then is Garrido out and Wisdom in so we still have that potential to do so again. Our issues that season weren''t our back 5 but were lack of goals and not having the quality in midfield which was frequently overrun, didn''t hold on to the ball well enough and had a nasty habit of losing runners. If Alex Neil has seen the footage, which I''m sure he has, then I think he would be prioritising midfield players to improve us on the ball and with better defensive abilities which is why I think Mulumbu and Dorran were signed. Also improving the way our wide players track back and cover and a focal point up front is needed.

If he signs a second player in the coming days, after a striker, I think we may be in for a surprise as it won''t be a centre back I see it being competition for Redmond as we keep having to move Howson there due to having no back up.

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I travel from Stoke to watch Norwich play week in week out and having seen Martin at first hand he is not and will never be good enough as a regular starter at CB in the PL. While the blame for Saturday''s goals don''t solely fall at Martins feet it''s hard to comprehend his efforts for the 3rd goal.

Once Olsson is back at left back, Brady is on the left of midfield and Mulumbu is in the centre we will have a much better balance to the team.

Maybe the answer is already in the squad in Wisdom however I would be surprised if another CB doesn''t arrive before the window closes.

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The worrying thing is that Olson has done no preseason. If Alex Neil has the same argument with not starting Cameron Jerome due to lack of preseason, then Olson, assuming he is recovered from the operation will need a couple of under 21 matches under his belt - which means 3 more first team games until he''s ready.

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A centre back who has the captains armband will take responsibility for his postion and organise his back four. Whittaker should not have been marking the highest player up the pitch in the middle of the park!!!

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If the captain can be held accountable for this then surely so can Neil? Or are all suspensions down to lack of responsibility taken by the team''s captain?

Whittaker was marking Tadic, their left winger, the reason it was in a more central area is because the ball was played diagonally from the opposite side of the pitch. If Whittaker left Tadic when he drifted into central areas, and if Brady did the same with Mane, we''d then end up with Bassong and Martin having 3 players to mark between them.

Still Martin''s fault? I blame Whittaker''s parents for not raising him proper like.

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Didn''t do very well against pelle for their first

And just stood and watched as tadic tapped in

Literally stood and watched the save and didn''t move an inch

He simply isn''t a good centre back and never has been

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Martin fecked up the first goal. Easy to put Pelle offside, but Martin did not.

For the second, Martin ballwatched, leaving Wisdom isolated with 2 Soton players at the back post.

Poor, and Martin is the one to go if Koulibaly signs.

Whitts and Martin is just not good enough, overall.

They got their moments, but for defending, which is their main job, they are not good enough.

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Of course no one else was at fault for the first goal were they? Howson losing the ball, Brady out of position, but all Martin’s fault obviously.

Did you see what Wisdom did for the second goal? Nothing. Didn''t even get off the ground to challenge Pelle who had his header saved. Martin’s fault as well that Wisdom was out of position for the third?

Easy to blame the scapegoat-it was a collection of errors by a number of players that cost us today.

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Fed up with this Martin love in. Yes, he''s comes across as a decent sort of fella, but he is not premier league standard. We need better, he finished last season as a weak link, and he''ll continue to be so this season.

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I''m fed up of the half wits who have chosen him as the scapegoat and blame him for every goal. Yes he makes mistakes as do all of our players, as do some of the best defenders in the world. But to blame him for some of the goals we have conceded this season is ridiculous.

It''s like people blank out what the other defenders are doing when we concede a goal- do they actually look at Bassong, Whittaker, Brady, Wisdom. They have all made mistakes as bad as Martin this season which barely get a mention.

I notice this thread was dormant for a while when he was doing well but the first opportunity to knock him someone pops up.

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Half wits! Typical uneducated numpty who tries to make it personal. Read the entries, the blame proportioned isn''t just about today''s performance, it''s about a growing list of nominations.

I suggest someone who replies who hasn''t taken the time to consider the points posted is in fact the half wit, that being you Hairy Kenneth!

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Martin blamed for the first. That''s so unfair. Pelle was offside, the lino wasn''t back quick enough and didn''t see it. To blame Martin for that just doesn''t hold water. We lost today for a number of reasons but somehow it''s twisted to have a pop at one of our most consistent players for a number of years.

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I am certainly not an uneducated numpty like yourself. There are plenty of halfwits all over social media and Internet forums who jump on the bandwagon with their contempt for a player and they clearly does not see what else is going on in the football match they are apparently experts on.

The same individuals time and time again pick up on the slightest mistake whilst ignoring others mistakes, and rarely give any praise when the player does well, which is what Martin has been doing recently.

I call them half wits as they clearly do not have the brain capacity to watch and take in what actually happens in the game.

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Pelle was just offside for the first, yes, but I blame Martin for not making sure he was offside. A step iut would seal it, but instead he followed him, even though Martin most likely knew he was slightly offside at the time. Did not help our cause.

And yes, the situation started with Howson and then Brady, but Martin could gave solved it with a bit of smartness, but did not.

For the second he was ballwatching the cross, leaving Wisdom isolated, although Wisdom did not cover himself in glory either.

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If RM has been playing well recently I must have been at a different set of games championship player at best

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[quote user="Dead Canary"]Martin blamed for the first. That''s so unfair. Pelle was offside, the lino wasn''t back quick enough and didn''t see it. To blame Martin for that just doesn''t hold water. We lost today for a number of reasons but somehow it''s twisted to have a pop at one of our most consistent players for a number of years.[/quote]

It isn''t just Martin at fault for the first but he''s still poor on it. Yes Pelle was offside by an inch but the linesman is never seeing that. But why is Martin following Pelle so deep like that? Just hold the line and he''s 2 yards offside.

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[quote]

It isn''t just Martin at fault for the first but he''s still poor on it. Yes Pelle was offside by an inch but the linesman is never seeing that. But why is Martin following Pelle so deep like that? Just hold the line and he''s 2 yards offside.

[/quote]

Exactly my point too. But the apologists in this forum will never see such obvious things, so it is probably a waste of time trying to educate the ignoring majority..

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In fact, things like these (failing to put players offside, failing to be "smart") is my main issue with Martin.

Yes, the initial error leading to a goal may very well be made by someone else, in other parts of the pitch. But Martin is very rarely the guy solving the situation. Rarely the guy cleaning up the mess. Instead he is just tripping around, doing his "job" half-well, but not really stepping in and mopping up the danger. There is simply no captain aura around the guy.

From the day h was made captain I have criticised the descision. He is not captain material, as he is not leading by example on the pitch. Having said that, I think we lack leader types in the team. After Holt, there has not been anyone with a natural instinct for leading men out there on the pitch. Someone who can make people run those extra yards, make that last ditch tackle, organize, keep it steady. We just dont have the natural defensive lynchpin. Martin is certainly not one.

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Very pleasing to see genuine supporters with a appreciation of the game who see some obvious failings in Martin. People seem to take it so personally when criticism is levelled at a player, even if their judgement is educated and reasonable. I''ve said it before and I''ll say it again, with Martin at the helm of our defence this season we will be relegated, he simply isn''t up to premier league standard.

The criticism at Wisdom is harsh, let''s see how he plays in a team of 11 v 11?

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I''ve always been fairly critical of RM over the years and yes lots talk about his professionalism etc etc.

All that is wonderful but today he had a shocker, the first goal (although offside) would have been obvious from the other end had he just stepped up or even stopped running, he was so far behind the rest if the back 4 it was embarrassing.

The second wasn''t just him, Bassong was all over the place also and the third was Martin again, he ''seemed'' to be picking up Pelle who had a free header, then RM (and others) just stood and watched.

Let''s get a new centre half in and play Wisdom at right back and give him a chance.

Sorry to say, but Martin isn''t good enough either as a player or a leader and Whitts fell in to the trap of picking up silly cards that are common in the premier league

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Nothing against Martin at all, a great servant for us - but I have never seen him as more than a stop gap at CB. Switch him to RB next match and take things from there.

I want to see us trade up on Turner with a new CB who can step straight into the team.

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