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firststeps

Russell Martin

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Russell Martin is our captain, he should organise the team as well as the defence, he does not! We need a striker and a central defender. Russell Martin is a okay defender at Championship level, in the Premier League he will (has been) found out. It''s been coming, AN needs to act now. I''ve had enough of his backwards/sideways passing and his inability to pass. Next.

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Not sure if it was Martin or Whits but whoever was on the post shouldn''t have been off it when the ball came back for the second.

Terrible marking before that but it was only a goal because of TWO defensive errors.

The first was Brady being out of position that cost us... the disallowed goal and penalty were shocking, and why they weren''t down to 10 in the first 10 minutes is a bit of a mystery!

Russ Martin... Generally ok today I thought but Bassong worried me a few times!

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Martin needs to be replaced! I can understand the Martin love in, (clearly a nice guy) but for the sake of the club and season, replace him.

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Guest
We all know the defence needed major strengthening and it hasn''t happened. Can we really be surprised we conceded three goals at home to a mid-table side?

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Agree with DC. Wasn''t Martin''s fault, it was the whole back four. Brady should''ve done better initially, Bassong goes to help him leaving Martin and Whitts to come in which then means Howson then also needed to be covering the back post. It was a team goal, can''t just blame Martin.

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Everyone on here is screeching for a new CB (or 2), yet I don''t see any of the Archant journos asking the question of AN, why he either hasn''t bought or doesn''t seem to be interested in buying one.  Is this because Archant journos are too frightened to ask or haven''t the intelligence to ask on our, the fans, behalf?

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I''ve just been told that the referee in charge of today''s game was his first in the Premier League, that in itself was shocking!

Anyway, every team needs a team leader, we haven''t got a captain that is one. He doesn''t do a lot wrong In some people''s eyes, the reason for this is because HE DOESNT DO A LOT!

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Whittaker is a League 1 standard rightback. Martin is (just about) a Premier League quality rightback; but a Championship standard center back at best. AN needs to stand up to Martin and tell him to play in his best position - RB, where we need him - and not allow him to dictate his own place in the team. We need a much better CB in right away and we need to get rid of the woefully out of his depth Whittaker.

And to all those apologists who argue that Martin is a lovely person and motivates the team and therefore deserves his place in the team based solely on personality, not on performance - My grandmother is also a lovely person. She''s also good at motivating people and makes a mean cup of tea. However, I wouldn''t recommend playing her at CB either...

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Andy_24, you Sir speak as I think. I''m sitting with a group of us in the Fat Cat & Canary and you have made us laugh :-)

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Whittaker was one of our better players today.

Anyone saying he is only League 1 standard is miles and miles off the mark.

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Been mentioned by a few in this thread but its the balance of the side and the midfield helping out the defence.  Whittaker pulled into the centre and where were Howson/Tettey/Dorrans/Johnson helping out?  Whittaker up against Zaha was always going to be tough.  Much tougher when he gets little support from the right side of midfield.Zaha tired a little but Bolasie is no mug either.  What happened when Redmond was on? A more balanced right side and Whittaker largely untroubled.

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I thought Whits had a good game and I like Russ :). I can''t see AN changing the Martin-Bassong partnership now, certainly not unless we signed a real top quality CB like Van Dijk. I expect any signing in that area is going to be along the lines of cover/alternative rather than a clear upgrade on what we have.

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firststeps wrote the following post at 08/08/2015 6:10 PM:

Anyway, every team needs a team leader, we haven''t got a captain that is one. He doesn''t do a lot wrong In some people''s eyes, the reason for this is because HE DOESNT DO A LOT!

-----------------------------

Such bollox, can''t think of a better candidate for the captaincy in our team in terms of attitude. The model professional. Also, to say he doesn''t do a lot, or work hard is just false obviously. embarrassing opinions from mr steps

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[quote user="andyc24_uk"]Whittaker is a League 1 standard rightback. Martin is (just about) a Premier League quality rightback; but a Championship standard center back at best. AN needs to stand up to Martin and tell him to play in his best position - RB, where we need him - and not allow him to dictate his own place in the team. We need a much better CB in right away and we need to get rid of the woefully out of his depth Whittaker.

And to all those apologists who argue that Martin is a lovely person and motivates the team and therefore deserves his place in the team based solely on personality, not on performance - My grandmother is also a lovely person. She''s also good at motivating people and makes a mean cup of tea. However, I wouldn''t recommend playing her at CB either...[/quote]

Well said. Almost as good as it would sound coming from my own polished mouth. Tired of the apologists claiming Russ is God. He is, by all accounts, both a poor captain, as he dors never lead by example, and a poor centreback. We need an upgrade.

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firststeps,

I am going to quote some of your posts, then give you reasons why I think we may have been at different games

You said

“Not good enough...”

“I''ve had enough of his backwards/sideways passing and his inability to pass. Next.”

“HE DOESNT DO A LOT!”

Well, here are some match stats;

He made more passes than any other member of the back four (51)

Of those passes, 12, approx 23.5% were long ball passes forward, a much higher % than any other member of the back four

Of those 7, 58.3% were accurate, again a far higher % than any other member of the back four.

Of course there are lies, damn lies and statistics, but these make quit impressive reading imo.

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You can stuff your stats where the sun does not shine.

We could all see what Martin did, or did not do, both for the second and third goal. Lost his player on the second, and jumped with his back against McArthur on the 3rd, allowing the slip pass through which Cabaye put away.

No stats can hide that.

The guy is never a Premiership defender.

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grefstad,

What a pleasant articulate post you submitted.

Firstly, I agree we could all see what Martin did, or did not do, both for the second and third goal, however we couldn''t all see what you saw. IMO the second, which was a very well worked move by Palace, caught our whole defence and midfield out, not just one player and on the third he attempted to block what appeared to initially be a shot, so I agree you could argue he was sold a dummy, many are, have been and will be.

Finally, the guy is a Premiership defender, because he has and is currently playing in the starting 11 of a Premiership team.

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Watch the replay of palaces third goal and Russel Martins defending!

Then tell me he isn''t a poor defender!

He cost us goals aplenty last season, he gave away the goal against Brentford in pre season friendly with shocking headed clearance once again, and he was awful yesterday. We will concede far too many this season if AN does not address this quite obvious inadequacy.

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Ray, Martin plays a majority of his passes from just infront of Ruddy, and as witnessed time and time again his passes are to people to the side of him or to a person just in front of him, I saw it yesterday when he won''t make a pass that opens the play, he''ll pass it to someone else so he doesn''t have the responsibility. As for the third goal, that''s Martin protecting his face for his next jewellery advert!!! Come on AN, let''s get this sorted.

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What I dislike most is the ignorants claiming Martin is a Premiership defender because:

1. He plays for Norwich, a Premiership team (atm)

2. He plays for Scotland (so he must ve good)

3. Several Norwich managers can''t all be wrong (yes they can)

Fact: one follows the other in a chain reaction. Martin plays CB at Norwich due to we have no other suitable. Been so for years. As a result, he plays for Scotland in the same position, as they have no other suitable. Lazy, because the Scotland manager sees Martin playing week in, week out for Norwich, assuming he is "quality".

And the apologists, I would go so far as saying ignorants, probably the same people who said "support Hughton, he is our manager", keep saying Martin is good, when all evidence has been clear as daylight for years. He is not any good (at CB).

When will the ignorants learn to see this?

Alex Neil will no doubt make changes at the back. He needs pace and presence. He also knows that making changes too hastily will create dressingroom unrest, so he will give Martin some games to prove himself. Same with Whittaker.

Whitts will be replaced with Wisdom, and Martin will be replaced with a new CB. Its just a matter of a time.

Another problem is ofcourse his role as captin, which automaticly makes him first pick on the teamsheet. Russ Martin is imho not a CB, and not captain material. Captains should lead by example, not just boast a long serving history with the club.

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Martin will be continually found out and is no where near premiership standard, we need a seasoned prem cb now. Whittaker had a good game and continued his good form from end of last campaign and is a much better option at rb than Mr Martin. The end.

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The most predicatable thing about yesterday and this season was every goal conceeded would cause a surge of disrespectful comments towards Russell Martin, regardless of whose fault it was. Fact is, most of what you RM haters are saying is total rubbish, someone has already put the statistics up to show how moronic Grefsteds comments were, seen someone else say his poor header against Brentford cost us a goal, this just simply never happened, now apparently he''s only playing centre back for Scotland because he played centre back for Norwich, despite actually starting in the centre back role for Scotland before he did Norwich..... Also allegedly he''s an average championship defender at best (despite being voted in the championship team of the year by fellow pro''s and managers) and is no way captain material (been captain for one season and led Norwich in arguably our greatest ever season, promotion, beating Ipswich in the Semi''s and a Wembley win).So, people who play against him say he''s a great defender, his opposition managers say he is a great defender, 4 Norwich managers have now had him at centre back, Gordon Strachan has had him at centre back for a Scotland team who has a real chance of making a major tournament for the first time in about 20 years, so pretty much everybody who has been associated with him within the game gives him the plaudits he rightly deserves, yet a handful of Norwich fans are right and the world of professional football is wrong. Give me strength.

Try watching the game without your scapegoat bias, he was far better than Bassong yesterday and won every single header in the air. Something he has previously been accused of being rubbish at because he''s too short and we should bring Ryan Bennett in who is actually shorter than Martin.....

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